View Full Version : Replacing inner wings
Afternoon all
Im looking at replacing the inner wings as part of my resto however I have been advised to leave well alone as even the smallest difference in relocating the new ones will mess up the suspension geometry unless this was done on a proper jig
I have found bazils excellent how to guide on how to remove them so im happy with that part its just putting the new ones in im unsure of
Any experience's or advice or better still pictures or WIP links would be much appreciated
Regard Rich
Refitting is reversal of removal, click the link in my sig for chassis measurements and only do one side at a time with plenty of reference measurements before during and after
Ah fcuk I'm not a paid member anymore so no sig :(
Cheers bazil I found your how to guide on removing them so I'm happy with that part. But I was advised not to replace them unless the car was on a proper bodyshop jig otherwise a few mill either way will stuff the suspension geometry. I'm trying to find someone who has done the job without the jig to see how it went
regards Rich
bazzap8389
03-08-15, 10:59 AM
I could be wrong but I don't think a jig was used for mine. Everything seems to line up perfectly.
Can i just say. Due to what the part is and does (as i guess you'll be removing the turret) You really need to be a good welder and have a good welder. As the suspension isn't something you wanna mess with and have bird shit welding trying to hold together.
Measuring everything is needed, tacking on measuring points for ref would help too. Such as wing lip to bolt holes and that.
Cheers guys this is the sort of info I need.
Benn have no fear I'm not doing the welding I know my limit
I'm trying to decide if the rust / rot between the inner wing and the chassis leg can be done without removing the inner wing or if its necessary to remove it how best to go about it . When I find the right company I want to have some idea of what is possible an how it should be tackled so as to avoid the bodge that has been done before
Rich
I'll try an post some later Benn
The only measurement that will be effected negatively by poor measurements would likely be caster angle
Camber can be corrected with camber bolts, tracking can be corrected
Chances are after 20 odd years of abuse and rust the measurements are already out by a few mm anyway,
Besides it's not open heart surgery it's just a nova
brainsnova
09-08-15, 07:09 PM
Agreed ^^^^^^ once the loads of the panel is unlikely to move and as long as the panel is lined up then you can't go wrong. I chopped plenty off my van front end and drove it to get welded and nothing moved apart from my drivers seat, I had to tie it in with rope.
NovalutionGSi
10-08-15, 12:56 PM
Rich, if your after a company to do it, then you could try the Body centre, up on Concorde Road in Norwich.
I don't know if they would do "resto" work but worth a try, plus might give you an idea of price for someone to do it for you as you might be in for a shock!
If you find somewhere else that's good then let me know.
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o776/biggles79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3sop9cvb.jpg (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/biggles79/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3sop9cvb.jpg.html)http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o776/biggles79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrvphdjxu.jpg
The only measurement that will be effected negatively by poor measurements would likely be caster angle
Camber can be corrected with camber bolts, tracking can be corrected
Chances are after 20 odd years of abuse and rust the measurements are already out by a few mm anyway,
Besides it's not open heart surgery it's just a nova
lol I know its not heart surgery but I want to get it right
Rich, if your after a company to do it, then you could try the Body centre, up on Concorde Road in Norwich.
I don't know if they would do "resto" work but worth a try, plus might give you an idea of price for someone to do it for you as you might be in for a shock!
If you find somewhere else that's good then let me know.
well I had a good search down the back of the sofa and couldn't come up with the £ 32,000 retro power wanted so scrapped that idea lol. There is a company at rackheath that do resto work on all sorts, sprites, mk1 mk2 escorts an such who didn't wince at the scale of the work involved. Their work is impressive so that's one option. I also have a mate who does mechanical an resto work im just wating for an idea how much he wants.
Im under no illusion that the cost for the metal work will be several thousand but I don't have the time, space at the moment. For some strange reason I haven't figured out yet I just cant scrap it. im beginning to think It might be related to bazils silver gsi lol
brainsnova
10-08-15, 09:34 PM
Hire a spot welder or find a welder. I pay £20 an hour and I prepare everything so the welder just welds then I do the finishings. Bazil has a space lol
TBh that isn't that bad, trim the top back more so you can see the chassis leg box, clean all that up. I'd box the top of the leg in, then go over that for the inner wing bit.
Give lots of strength and no more rust.
There are lots of mobile welders about or any bodyshop could do it. I at first thought you'd be taking the turret off.
NovalutionGSi
11-08-15, 04:50 PM
Im under no illusion that the cost for the metal work will be several thousand but I don't have the time, space at the moment. For some strange reason I haven't figured out yet I just cant scrap it. im beginning to think It might be related to bazils silver gsi lol
Sure it isn't related to my old GSi?? it took 7 years and 2 years from the point I realised it was beyond my skills to repair it and for it to meet its maker and leave a nova shaped hole in the garage.
I agree benn so far I have just cut out the rotten bodge that was there. Like u say cut some more away repair the chassis leg and fold an re make a new piece for the inner wing. As for lots of places you'd be surprised how few there are up our way. It not just the pictures I posted ,we're talking new sills both rear quarters rear panel both wings bonnet both doors plus other repairs an some companies have backed out due to the scale of it.
Adam it could be related to several other gsi's. But I'm determined that it's not gonna meet its maker once I find someone I trust to do the metal I have a painter sorted then putting it together again can take as long as it needs to. I just really don't have the time ,much as I'd like to do all the metal myself
Rich
NovalutionGSi
11-08-15, 09:59 PM
Well Rich, if you need a hand with anything on the rebuild other than what you've already asked about my loom, just ask, if I'm free can pop over and help.
I agree benn so far I have just cut out the rotten bodge that was there. Like u say cut some more away repair the chassis leg and fold an re make a new piece for the inner wing. As for lots of places you'd be surprised how few there are up our way. It not just the pictures I posted ,we're talking new sills both rear quarters rear panel both wings bonnet both doors plus other repairs an some companies have backed out due to the scale of it.
Rich
It amazes me when people say a garage/bodyshop have backed out. None of them are hard jobs. Find a good bodywork guy and it will be done in a week or 2.
It amazes me when people say a garage/bodyshop have backed out. None of them are hard jobs. Find a good bodywork guy and it will be done in a week or 2.
Its because there's not much money in it - bodyshops will always prioritise the insurance or fleet jobs as they are much easier and a quick turnaround for profit...
Jonesfach
12-08-15, 04:36 PM
Its because there's not much money in it - bodyshops will always prioritise the insurance or fleet jobs as they are much easier and a quick turnaround for profit...
Couldnt agree more. Unless you get a guy who runs the place who is into his old cars, you either get charged a fortune or get the old, not really interested look.
i went to 2 places recently for some work done..wheels painted and my drivers side redone and they really couldn't be bothered.
luckily the 3rd place was more than accommodating. Super job too.
I never bothered with " crash repair " or body shops because they just aren't interested. I want to find what I call an old fashioned coach works where bending folding an fabricating metal is still done. One guy was very confident until he saw the scale of the work. When I asked if he would need the doors an boot he replied no ( needing the rear panel rear quarters and sills replaced I would have thought the fit and alignment of both would be vital ) anyway he decided he didn't have the room as it wasn't a rolling shell lol
Pistol Pete
12-08-15, 09:47 PM
Your rot doesn't look that bad. I considered replacing the whole lot, but with some panning and crwative cutting, we managed to repair it all. Once dressed, painted and engine is in you wont be able to tell!! Costs alot less too!
brainsnova
12-08-15, 09:56 PM
Anyone that backs out hasn't got good metal working skills and can only weld and blend copy or genuine panels
You need to try small bodyshops.
Anyone that backs out hasn't got good metal working skills and can only weld and blend copy or genuine panels
Sorry - but that's rubbish!
These are businesses at the end of the day that need to turn a profit - if you've got the option for high-volume, quick turnaround jobs you take them all day over something that will take weeks and you cant charge the same hourly rate as the owner cant/wont pay!!
brainsnova
14-08-15, 01:03 AM
Sorry - but that's rubbish!
These are businesses at the end of the day that need to turn a profit - if you've got the option for high-volume, quick turnaround jobs you take them all day over something that will take weeks and you cant charge the same hourly rate as the owner cant/wont pay!!
Yes I know but they could still do a days work and charge accordingly
meritlover
14-08-15, 11:06 AM
Yes I know but they could still do a days work and charge accordingly
and they will, in which case a guy wanting a £200 nova wanting a patch welded will get quoted about £5k as thats probably what he'd make spending the same time on an insurance job....how many people then decide to with the bodyshop option? not even worth wasting time doing an estimate.
Novasport
14-08-15, 11:12 AM
Why do people think insurance companies pay a good hourly rate? We have a bodyshop on site and the insurance companies have driven the price right down to the point where bodyshops make very minimal profits. The labour rate they pay is about a quarter of what we get from the workshop.
meritlover
14-08-15, 12:41 PM
Hourly rate might be low but theres markup on all the parts which makes it easy money, plus theres lots of it so no need to take on resto jobs.
brainsnova
14-08-15, 01:49 PM
After all the repairs on my van I've done welding wise I'll be glad to move to a 996 turbo
Novasport
14-08-15, 03:49 PM
Hourly rate might be low but theres markup on all the parts which makes it easy money, plus theres lots of it so no need to take on resto jobs.
There isn't. They know exactly what replacement parts cost and what discount they get. They can also dictate where to source parts like aftermarket panel suppliers.
Insurance companies are not the best to deal with. They are even setting up their own bodyshops to keep it all in house.
personally I think it starts at school, years ago metal work was a subject that was taught these days it's more computers an such kids have no interest in it. As a result the rate people retire at is not matched by people coming in to the industry hence the skills get lost. The one that do remain can command there own price, with companies like retro power booked over a year in advance there's certainly no shortage of takers
I don't think people who back out lack the welding skills. It's more a case of there unsure of how to price it and when they do people think it's a rip off. Or refuse to pay because the work has gone over the estimate having found more work as they move along.
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