View Full Version : Wilwood Midilite Brake Set Up
HouseAtreides
13-05-15, 10:47 AM
Hello,
Looking to know if anyone has bought the Wilwood 280mm brake kit with Midilite 4-pot Calipers and ran them on 16" Speedlines without the issue of altering the car's aesthetics (i.e., not had any front wing-clearance issues in terms of the spacers used in this kit)?
My reasons for asking is that I really want(ed) an AP Racing brake kit with separate rotas and bells (for looks as well as stopping power - though the latter is the lesser of the two reasons really despite its importance), which is, for all intents and purposes, currently under discussion with a company who are willing to supply them for my Nova but awaiting exact fitment dimensions.
Notwithstanding, I have done a bit of searching online and discovered a few issues with opting for big brake kits, particularly AP and Brembo due to the width of the calipers and their effects on looks (i.e., wider front wheel base than as original, which I don't like and wouldn't want), and therefore the driveability in terms of front-wing clearance when lowered (which mine most certainly will be - thought not ridiculously, just stylistically; but, again, not willing to compromise on looks over stopping power despite the fact that part of the reason I want a fancy brake kit is also looks).
Thus, really all I want to know for certain is, is the above mentioned kit likely to fit under my rims without altering the look of the car and without causing wing-clearance issues (within the context that with these wheels and lowering the car it is tight enough already)? If I were to go for this kit I would opt for x-drilled discs for a bit of added pzazz, as they look a tad dull as plain lol
P.S. see link for exact brake kit: http://www.motorsport-tools.com/wilwood-vauxhall-nova-astra-gte-corsa-b-brake-kit-midilite-4-pot-calipers-280mm.html
Cheers,
Tony
No - you'll need spacers. I did with my midilites....
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 08:43 AM
No - you'll need spacers. I did with my midilites....
Cheers Will. Do you know what sort of size in spacer I need?
I fitted Midilites without spacers under Speedlines on my old Nova. Were very close though.
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 11:17 AM
I fitted Midilites without spacers under Speedlines on my old Nova. Were very close though.
Thanks for the response, though there seems to be some conflicting views.
Have actually just come off the phone to a gentleman at Hi-Spec and he's going to do the drawings for a bespoke brake kit to fit my requirements, so will see what he comes back with. On two-piece big brake conversions, it seems to be the bell width that is the problem. The gentleman I spoke to is going to see if he can make a set of bells that are 6mm in width as opposed to the 8-10mm that most manufacturers of competition brakes use, thereby creating a brake kit that is only 1-2mm away from what it should be as standard.
I know the Dynalites don't fit though as a mate ran them. PM rob89 on here and see if he has any pictures as he owns the car now. I can't find a picture at the moment.
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 12:43 PM
I know the Dynalites don't fit though as a mate ran them. PM rob89 on here and see if he has any pictures as he owns the car now. I can't find a picture at the moment.
Nice one Lee, will do mate cheers.
Cant you mod the brackets to sit the caliper father back, and then use a disc with more offset?
That's what i did to run my Wilwoods under my turbo rims.
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 01:38 PM
Cant you mod the brackets to sit the caliper father back, and then use a disc with more offset?
That's what i did to run my Wilwoods under my turbo rims.
I really wouldn't know Benn - never done this big a disc conversion before, so don't have any experience to know what I could get away with in terms of modifications to the brackets.
Think the problem might be solved by Hi-Spec if they can make me a bespoke brake kit - just waiting to hear back from them to see if they can machine a set of smaller bells (6mm in width as opposed to 8-10mm).
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 04:59 PM
lowspec :(
So say a few people on here from what I've read. I'm not rallying, nor fast roading, but mostly building for show and personal enjoyment, which doesn't involve heavy footedness, so is not like they're going to be getting pushed to the limit, otherwise I see your point. Why is it that you speak so lowly of Hi-Spec, if you don't mind me asking? The gentleman I spoke to on the phone said that groups, such as radical race car, use their brake kits in events such as the Nurburgring.
Out of all the companies I have spoken to, Hi-Spec are the only ones who are willing and able to manufacture me a bespoke brake kit that fits my car without compromising the track width, which otherwise would alter the aesthetics of the car and, in my opinion, look daft, irrespective of how much the braking is improved.
Hey have been slow, and I mean glacial speed, at doing work for projects I've seen in the past, along with some iffy parts but I guess you have that with anyone.
just be prepared to sit on them. Even for 'show' you need brakes to work.
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 07:34 PM
Hey have been slow, and I mean glacial speed, at doing work for projects I've seen in the past, along with some iffy parts but I guess you have that with anyone.
just be prepared to sit on them. Even for 'show' you need brakes to work.
They did say it would take 4-6 weeks to make the kit, though that suits me fine, as the car won't be finished until the end of the year and doesn't stop me from doing other things that need doing in the interim. A little off-put by the fact that you think they would use iffy parts in their kits - not sure what parts you are referring to - though, you're right in what you say, as the same is said according to the laws of thermodynamics, which is that you cannot build a machine or part that is 100% efficient.
Obviously I want the brakes to work, and a lot better than OE big brakes, which doesn't seem a ridiculous expectation unless there is something you are not telling me? When you say 'be prepared to sit on them', what exactly do your mean? That I will need to use the weight of my full body on the brake pedal to make the car stop; or that I should expect not to expect to be able to use them?
I mean sit on the company not the brakes, although if you stick with the oem master cylinder getting huge piston calipers will make stopping exciting (as in lots of pedal travel before they work)
HouseAtreides
14-05-15, 08:04 PM
I mean sit on the company not the brakes, although if you stick with the oem master cylinder getting huge piston calipers will make stopping exciting (as in lots of pedal travel before they work)
The wait really isn't an issue; and the suggested caliper was the R114-4 pot, which is one of (if not thee smallest 4-pot calipers I think there is on offer as far as big brake conversions go). So not sure anything (including Hi-Spec's brakes) can be any worse than the OE standard brakes, as they're literally unstoppable lol
If your gonna get them made, i'd pm Jonlem as he can make everything you need up....
blue_peg_16v
15-05-15, 10:10 PM
Depends on the wheels aswell tbf I have the dynalits 280mm and have run various 15 and 17in wheels over them over the years
17 in team dynamics monzas no spacers needed 45ofset
17 kahns 10mm spacer needed 45 ofset
17 senikas 3mm spacer 48 ofset
15 5 spokes un know brand 45 offset 10mm
15 team dynamics monza 5mm
HouseAtreides
16-05-15, 02:58 PM
If your gonna get them made, i'd pm Jonlem as he can make everything you need up....
Depends on the wheels aswell tbf I have the dynalits 280mm and have run various 15 and 17in wheels over them over the years
17 in team dynamics monzas no spacers needed 45ofset
17 kahns 10mm spacer needed 45 ofset
17 senikas 3mm spacer 48 ofset
15 5 spokes un know brand 45 offset 10mm
15 team dynamics monza 5mm
Cheers lads, more than helpful :thumb: Will give Jonlem a message and see what he can do for me :)
turbo-boy
17-05-15, 02:37 PM
im using wilwoods on my turbo yoke, with rotors and bells and they are spot on and im running 2mm spacers and the discs are 305mm on a 16 speedline, if you need any help i could possibly measure a few things for you and also have pics of them in my project thread
HouseAtreides
17-05-15, 04:39 PM
im using wilwoods on my turbo yoke, with rotors and bells and they are spot on and im running 2mm spacers and the discs are 305mm on a 16 speedline, if you need any help i could possibly measure a few things for you and also have pics of them in my project thread
That's really helpful, thanks. The only thing I would say is that a 2mm spacer is awfully thin, surely? Can't see how a 2mm spacer on the hub (or knuckle which the caliper mounts to) could possibly withstanding the weight in lb's of force in braking. Most brake specialists I have spoken to suggest no less than an 8mm spacer, otherwise it simply won't be able to cope under such conditions.
Just realised something (...) By spacer, do you mean one that sits on the face of the bell to create more wheel/spoke clearance from the caliper and disc, or do you mean the mounting bracket where the caliper mounts to the hub (or knuckle)?
turbo-boy
17-05-15, 05:31 PM
lol, my kit is a fully propper assemable unit the 2mm i was refearing to was between the wheel and the hub all other brackets should be AT
lEAST 10MM
HouseAtreides
17-05-15, 06:42 PM
lol, my kit is a fully propper assemable unit the 2mm i was refearing to was between the wheel and the hub all other brackets should be AT
lEAST 10MM
Ah yes, I thought so lol. As you can probably tell, I'm having quite a time getting my head around what brakes are going to fit and how without altering (or at least minimising what increase there is in) the track width. From looking at your build thread, it looks as though you've managed to maintain the original track-width, even with 305mm discs. Are they 305x25mm?
What is the width of your bells, then? 8 or 10mm? This is where I'm trying to get as exact measurements as possible to know what I can fit to mine. Might even mean I can get away with the AP brake kit that the gentleman at BG Developments suggested.
My last nova had a wilwood midi lite kit using two piece 300mm+ rotors/bells and sat behind allesios without any spacers. It was achieved by using high offset bells and having them machined down. Longer posts were needed also between the calliper and brackets from memory. Wilwoods are a huge cost saving compared with Alcon looking at Hockley or similar but unsure on fitment behind allesios. They do kits that go under 14/15" rims but allesios are very tight on clearance in comparison etc
On on another note reviewing your thread I noticed a small issue.... The rad tech kit will require your front panels trimming at both sides and the lower lip. This will allow it to sit correctly in position. If it's not as far forward as it should be your turbo may have clearance issues with the radiator. Look up Keith Robinsons nova turbo build for details.
Nick.
HouseAtreides
17-05-15, 08:29 PM
My last nova had a wilwood midi lite kit using two piece 300mm+ rotors/bells and sat behind allesios without any spacers. It was achieved by using high offset bells and having them machined down. Longer posts were needed also between the calliper and brackets from memory. Wilwoods are a huge cost saving compared with Alcon looking at Hockley or similar but unsure on fitment behind allesios. They do kits that go under 14/15" rims but allesios are very tight on clearance in comparison etc
On on another note reviewing your thread I noticed a small issue.... The rad tech kit will require your front panels trimming at both sides and the lower lip. This will allow it to sit correctly in position. If it's not as far forward as it should be your turbo may have clearance issues with the radiator. Look up Keith Robinsons nova turbo build for details.
Nick.
Thanks Nick, that all makes sense, though would need to know what size of bell that was used and how many degrees were lathed/machined off to accommodate the ET 49 offset wheels? I hate to sound stupid, but what are the posts? And how easily is it to obtain these; do they need to be bought and altered, and, if so, what size and by how much? Sorry for the 20 questions, but I really have no experience with fitting these sorts of kits and want to get it right.
The AP kits from Hockely's do look like they would cause issues, as have had measurements sent from CG Developments who are suppliers of AP and the gentleman has emailed me quite a few of the different calipers and they work out a good 8-9mm thicker than the likes of the Wilwood midi-lite caliper. There was one AP caliper he recommended but there was still 6mm difference in it, which is substantial when you take into account the overall difference in width in terms of what that adds to the track width.
As for modifying the lower cross-member to allow more clearance of the rad from the turbo, having looked at Keith's thread there the now he looks like he has fitted his rad set-up in much the same place as mine gauging from where the captive nuts are located from underneath the cross-member. If mine isn't as far forward as his, then it is only by a matter of mm's. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think I could have put the rad any further forward without having to alter the headlights and grill - the way I have fitted mine is as tight forward as I could get it.
Thanks Nick, that all makes sense, though would need to know what size of bell that was used and how many degrees were lathed/machined off to accommodate the ET 49 offset wheels? I hate to sound stupid, but what are the posts? And how easily is it to obtain these; do they need to be bought and altered, and, if so, what size and by how much? Sorry for the 20 questions, but I really have no experience with fitting these sorts of kits and want to get it right.
The AP kits from Hockely's do look like they would cause issues, as have had measurements sent from CG Developments who are suppliers of AP and the gentleman has emailed me quite a few of the different calipers and they work out a good 8-9mm thicker than the likes of the Wilwood midi-lite caliper. There was one AP caliper he recommended but there was still 6mm difference in it, which is substantial when you take into account the overall difference in width in terms of what that adds to the track width.
As for modifying the lower cross-member to allow more clearance of the rad from the turbo, having looked at Keith's thread there the now he looks like he has fitted his rad set-up in much the same place as mine gauging from where the captive nuts are located from underneath the cross-member. If mine isn't as far forward as his, then it is only by a matter of mm's. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think I could have put the rad any further forward without having to alter the headlights and grill - the way I have fitted mine is as tight forward as I could get it.
Im afraid that's as much as I know regarding the brakes... Another guy had the work done and I bought the kit second hand when he had finished with it. The posts are the circular sections that sit between caliper and mounting bracket. Pretty sure they came from rally design with the flexi hoses that were bought to suit the kit. I may have a copy of the receipts/part numbers somewhere as the originals went with the car/kit when I sold it. Regarding the intercooler.... All 3 cars that run the radtech kit have had to shave a good few mm from the inside of the grill slats so I'd say you still need to edge it forward a little. Like any nova with a clet the radiator is close to the turbo. But you'll see more when your engine goes in and can go from their.
Nick.
HouseAtreides
17-05-15, 09:54 PM
Im afraid that's as much as I know regarding the brakes... Another guy had the work done and I bought the kit second hand when he had finished with it. The posts are the circular sections that sit between caliper and mounting bracket. Pretty sure they came from rally design with the flexi hoses that were bought to suit the kit. I may have a copy of the receipts/part numbers somewhere as the originals went with the car/kit when I sold it. Regarding the intercooler.... All 3 cars that run the radtech kit have had to shave a good few mm from the inside of the grill slats so I'd say you still need to edge it forward a little. Like any nova with a clet the radiator is close to the turbo. But you'll see more when your engine goes in and can go from their.
Nick.
As always, nothing is ever straightforward in this life lol. If you can find those receipts and have the part No.'s on them, then I would be grateful if you could PM them whenever you get a moment. Otherwise, you're help and advice has been greatly appreciated - I'm a lot clearer than I was this morning, which is something.
I had a feeling that rad kit might come back and bite me in the bum - despite it being custom made to fit - without at least some necessary modifications being needed. Once I drop the engine in, which I'll be doing over the summer, I'll have a better idea of how much space I'm left with. I'm going to use heat wrap where I can on the manifold etc., in order to reduce the amount of heat on components and wiring.
The posts Nick talks of are just spacers to push the caliper out from the bracket. Thicker ones means you can run wider discs. Whic is something i've looked at.
You can see them here....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/bennh/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bennh/media/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg.html)
Ive had 2 brake kits from Rally Design, the 310mm midilite kit and the 280mm midilite kit. My nova currently runs the 280mm kit and they fit under my Vauxhall 15 inch Cesaro alloys no problem with room to spare.
I previously had the 310mm kit on (seperate bells and rotors) and it needed a 5mm wheel spacer for the Speedline alloy to clear the caliper.
I can get hold of a Speedline alloy to try on my car with the Wilwood 280mm kit fitted if you want?
boffer8
19-05-15, 03:01 PM
Alcon 295mm x 25mm brake set up from Hocklys, no addition of track width, fits with Comp MO5's and Speedline Corse wheels with ease, stops on a dime and with a bias pedal box from Compbrake performance is amazing
boffer8
19-05-15, 03:03 PM
The posts Nick talks of are just spacers to push the caliper out from the bracket. Thicker ones means you can run wider discs. Whic is something i've looked at.
You can see them here....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/bennh/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bennh/media/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg.html)
These spacers will mean you can run a bigger offset disc, not a wider disc, you would have to put spacers in the caliper to achieve that.
No, the black spacer in between the gold bracket and the caliper. They space the caliper out...
Not the one i have to made to move the caliper back for more offset.
HouseAtreides
21-05-15, 06:44 PM
The posts Nick talks of are just spacers to push the caliper out from the bracket. Thicker ones means you can run wider discs. Whic is something i've looked at.
You can see them here....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/bennh/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bennh/media/Crap/IMAG0698_zpsrdgqatif.jpg.html)
I see what he means now :thumb: ... The disc looks like it has been machined or cast to an offset such that it sits away from the wheel. Exactly how I would go about having a set of discs machined or cast with such an offset, when I don't know how much they have been offset, would be pure guesswork.
HouseAtreides
21-05-15, 06:56 PM
Ive had 2 brake kits from Rally Design, the 310mm midilite kit and the 280mm midilite kit. My nova currently runs the 280mm kit and they fit under my Vauxhall 15 inch Cesaro alloys no problem with room to spare.
I previously had the 310mm kit on (seperate bells and rotors) and it needed a 5mm wheel spacer for the Speedline alloy to clear the caliper.
I can get hold of a Speedline alloy to try on my car with the Wilwood 280mm kit fitted if you want?
Thanks for the response fella :) I'm wanting a kit that comprises separate bells and rotors, so if you were to try up your 280mm midilite kit, I would need to know the absolute width (i.e., that is the width from the centreline of the disc to the outer edge where the wheel meets the face) of the disc if it is a solid cast, otherwise I'll not know the overall difference in width from the centreline of the disc to the outer edge of the calliper if I end going for, say, 10mm bells with 280x24mm rotors on the midilite calliper.
HouseAtreides
21-05-15, 07:02 PM
Alcon 295mm x 25mm brake set up from Hocklys, no addition of track width, fits with Comp MO5's and Speedline Corse wheels with ease, stops on a dime and with a bias pedal box from Compbrake performance is amazing
This is music to my ears! :thumb: I am wanting to go for an Alcon brake kit, but until I read this was uncertain whether they would fit, as their callipers are generally that bit wider than, say, Wilwood's midilite calliper - there is 9.2mm of difference in width from the centreline of a 280x25.4mm disc to the outer edge of the calliper between, for example, Alcon's 5010 calliper (which is its smallest calliper) and Wilwood's midilite. My only question would be do you know if this kit is used with a 10mm bell?
HouseAtreides
21-05-15, 08:22 PM
I think that's settled - going for the HH 15\" Alcon brake kit :)
I see what he means now :thumb: ... The disc looks like it has been machined or cast to an offset such that it sits away from the wheel. Exactly how I would go about having a set of discs machined or cast with such an offset, when I don't know how much they have been offset, would be pure guesswork.
Due to me running 5 stud and needing the extra offset, i use a VW discs. The set up isnt ideal. As i dont like the spacer in against the hub to bracket.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.