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View Full Version : Maroon 1.6 GSI Road & Track Project



matt_vaughan
07-10-14, 04:17 PM
Here's my latest vehicular purchase, having moved back away from my Mk3 Astra GSI rep, I'm now back in a Nova, and so glad.

This one has a few small niggles, but essentially its how I want it already, which leaves tinkering down to engine-bay.

As can be seen from the photo, the rear end is way too low (exaggerated by being parked on the hill mind) and the front wing is the slightest shade different colour to the rest of the car (badly matched paint repair iirc).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10373798_10152545165439577_3286531707477493489_n.j pg?oh=015d3be5cb8e44e1b94b4da9f991819f&oe=54C3A79C&__gda__=1420606858_c025e41586ab3d4ac2f87c6dd6720c6 e

At the moment its running pretty standard spec, Gmax shocks and springs with 256s, 1.6 8V standard E16SE, and a stainless exhaust with a 4 branch.

However, I'm getting back into hillclimbing next season and have been pondering what to do about class structures. With the increasing popularity of small engine turbocharged cars competing in the up to 2000cc classes successfully, I started looking around at our small block turbo options. Rules state that the engine MUST be externally identifiable as factory fitted but otherwise anything goes within the class structures (as far as I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong if anyone knows). I do need to dig out the blue book and see what it says as per manufacturer, and whether GM would cover it or it has to be a Vauxhall engine.

X14XE is a big...big job to Turbocharge, and requires lowering of compression/forged internals etc etc to get right, and I dont have the time or budget.

However, the F14D3 engine from the Daewoo Kalos (similar to 14XE) already has a compression ratio of 9.5:1, and I have read many success stories and seen countless threads documenting the silly power these small block Daewoo engines can make standard (see MigWeb for the guy making 300+ on a 1.5 8v)

Engine management will be Megasquirt, my first foray into standalone management so I'm going for the most documented for the DIYer, I understand it's not the perfect solution but it'll do for the job and on the budget I'm aiming for.

Despite leaving the internals standard, I'll be fitting ARPs to both rods and flywheel just for peace of mind. Apparently some diesel headbolts can be shortened and are much stronger than standard petrol headbolts, need to find the info on that again.

Manifold. I'm led to believe, and have photo evidence somewhere, that the Honda D Series turbo manifolds available on eBay have the closest port spacing possible to match with the manifold flange of the Daewoo engine (which means this also applies to 14/16XE as the exhausts are near identical). They're cheap but I'll be checking it over and having the correct flange welded on anyway, so its a pay off worth taking.

This configuration is one I've been reading about and researching for months, and as far as I can find noone has turbocharged this specific engine and documented it before, so it's a bit unknown. But if the performance of the other engines in the Daewoo family are anything to go by I'm hoping for a safe 200hp when mapped properly running a T3.

If I manage 200hp that will be enough, clutches and boxes will start to disintegrate rapidly after that. What are the best options for an uprated clutch for the small block 16v?

I'm on the lookout for an engine now, and the first job will be modifying the manifold to suit the Daewoo head. A local guy makes 16v exhaust flanges already so I'm set for one of those.

Before anyone says "200 hp from a 1.4 is going to throw rods for counties" etc etc have a look at what people around the world are somehow managing with these small block Daewoo engines. The compression ratio is suitable, the engines have done it many times before, and with standalone it shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. How long it lasts is another matter, but if it blows it blows, Daewoo engines aren't exactly expensive and if the first engine works well, it would be worth considering strengthened internals for the rebuild.

I have a decent reason for doing this (hillclimb class structure), and to many, this would seem like a bit of a waste of time and money, it's going to cost the same as a LET. But I could fit a LET and I would then be thrown in a class against my own dad, with a 350kg Sports Libra with 180hp GSXR engine and 0-60 in about 3.2, so that's pointless.

Balley
07-10-14, 07:09 PM
Sounds very interesting, I will be keeping an eye out on this!

Southie
07-10-14, 07:10 PM
Sounds very interesting indeed Matt, nice to see you've got another nova and your planning something a little different, sure I saw your car in Keighley the other day.

RallyMarshal
08-10-14, 11:42 AM
Theres a number of rallycars running the 14XE in normally aspirated form with close to 200bhp so the engines are capable albeit expensive.

F20 box is easily fitted to a smallblock - shafts are the problem but overcomable and should be strong enough for the torque produced but a better CWP (4.2, 4.5 or 4.8) will help a lot too.

Paul..

_Jake
12-10-14, 09:10 AM
I can make you a tubular manifold if you supply the daewoo flange.

nova_stee
12-10-14, 10:31 AM
Nice to see a diffrent project for a change keep it up

kevw
12-10-14, 01:46 PM
Yea sounds interesting. Followed :)

Southie
30-10-14, 06:17 AM
Looked nice this car when I saw it the other week, Maccy Ds for lunch Matt... Hope it was a healthy one lol

dgbnova#1
30-10-14, 09:32 AM
Sounds interesting and well researched good on you for going a different route

what are you planing for the turbo side of the conversion

Kev Turbo
30-10-14, 09:37 AM
Looking forward to some updates. Looks a good base!

novarally
30-10-14, 01:02 PM
Very interesting, I shall watch with interest.

Do be aware (if you weren't already) that there is talk of rule changes in hillclimbs and sprints to bring the 'Forced Induction Equivalency Factor' in line with the rest of Motorsport.

At the moment it's 1.7 for circuit racing and rallying, but only 1.4 for hillclimbs and sprints.

If it gets changed then my 1000cc turbo engine is done for.....

novarally
30-10-14, 01:02 PM
Very interesting, I shall watch with interest.

Do be aware (if you weren't already) that there is talk of rule changes in hillclimbs and sprints to bring the 'Forced Induction Equivalency Factor' in line with the rest of Motorsport.

At the moment it's 1.7 for circuit racing and rallying, but only 1.4 for hillclimbs and sprints.

If it gets changed then my 1000cc turbo engine is done for.....

matt_vaughan
25-11-14, 07:58 PM
I had heard mutters but a while ago and assumed it was one of those things that comes up now and then in "paddock chat".

From past experience dealing with possible rule changes which would "outlaw" our other hillclimber, the issues take so long to be sorted that I've at least got next season to use this concept at some point.

I'll be reporting for the BSC so wont have a huge chance to get to many events and compete myself, so it's more a proof of concept that I'll cram what I can in on "weekends off". Fortunately I have access to other vehicles so this "daily" can be tinkered with yet still enjoyed on the road. Which also gives me more chance to get the mapping and setup right.

Oh and, really struggling to find the donor engine!

Been gathering funds and other parts in the mean time though, and will be purchasing megasquirt in the next couple of weeks and benchtesting it/learning the software.

Just for anyone stumbling here for info I have a little nugget of something I might try....

Zetec exhaust manifolds from Focus 1.6/1.8 are plentiful and cheap, and they appear to be made of a weldable material (we do have Mig and Tig here though....). They also happen to be PERFECT port spacing for C20XE head as I found checking last night..... Im also lead to believe they're very fitting for 8v big block too. I'm sure with some fettling though a bit of adjustment to match the shorter head of this engine will give me a decent DIY "rams horn type" manifold. And as an added bonus, I also believe using this method gives me the option to mount the manifold either way up (depending on which way the flange is welded to it) allowing me the choice of using a top mount turbo without having to rotate it? Please correct me if I'm wrong because I just happen to have a TD04 in VGC in storage.....

Kind of an example....

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/quEAAOxy0zhTKtN-/$_35.JPG

I'll grab a pic of mine next to the XE exhaust ports.....its so close! The ports are round however....

So to sum up...anyone wanting a cheap turbo manifold for a big block.....Focus 1.6/1.8 Zetec donor with a flange welded on could be worth a try! I'll be modifying mine if I use it cause I'm sure the port spacing will be different on the small blocks.

matt_vaughan
02-12-14, 11:04 PM
Quick update. Plans a bit more firm now.

Finally sorted an engine....finding one proved to be pretty hard. Luckily a local breakers has come up with one for okay money so should be collecting that this week then its onto the engine stand for sump return installing, ARP road and fly bolts and flywheel lightening.

Im looking at using the td04 from an impreza as I have one already and its in good condition. Im probably going to have to clock it though so depending on how much work that is depends whether I flog it and pluck for a t25 off something like a Saab B204.

Intercooler is also sorted thanks to a Saab donor but not fitted it up yet so not sure if it fits.

Exhaust manifold as above.

Engine management, after much deliberation will be VEMS. There seems to be enough documentation and plenty of cars running it well, and the features/price ratio compared to the equivalent Megasquirt tips in VEMS favour, especially on board lambda control.

Ive decided to go for the 1.6 version of the Daewoo 16v for a couple of reasons. Hillclimb regs will not allow me to run the Daewoo engine in a roadgoing class and this build means more than a couple of events in x class next season, so will be purchasing a cheap second car for track duties and concentrating on getting this build set up right. Hoping to have the engine atleast built pre wiring before christmas, so january could be an interesting month.

matt_vaughan
06-12-14, 04:46 PM
I've realised no-one seems to have done this over here (people have used Daewoo rods in small blocks before), but I've never seen a Vauxhall with a Daewoo engine (despite the reverse being comparatively popular: See LET/B204/XE Lanos' on YT)

So, as a matter of both saving time answering questions later, and having a reference for others to learn from, this thread will be ridiculously detailed. I'd rather answer as many questions in my posts as possible while I'm doing the jobs one at a time rather than backtracking later. So my apologies if it gets a bit long winded....

Also apologies for crappy phone pics in this one but I wasnt taking my SLR in the garage today....to many big things around.

So, finally sourced an engine from a Breakers in Lancashire. Got the engine pretty well complete with only wiring loom cut of, and box removed. Rest was as dropped from the car, which I was pleased about.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10404460_10152924858049577_8241432888887096681_n.j pg?oh=17d1ed79b9e3539c2b920334c2d601f1&oe=5503484A&__gda__=1426317310_28f10b2331082af25dd96cdebe20ae2 8

Above is a quick before picture....so we know what the engines look like in the Lanos bay. Lurking below, however, is actually a really attractive cam cover (imho)...see below. Plan on repainting this and skimming top with sandpaper for a bare metal finish to the embossing. Should look similar finish to Burton Power cam covers. Plastic will not be returning.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10653796_10152925110709577_6808800289014982911_n.j pg?oh=1af766e904d5df34e0c9bea921018508&oe=54FD460D&__gda__=1427195224_ffca41c9a632baddcb97e2c4a05af20 5

First job stripping the unwanted ancillaries and exhaust manifold.

PAS was removed, including a pretty chunky PAS bracket without affecting the operation of anything else, no pulleys need modifying.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10849934_10152925110974577_4745941793675613202_n.j pg?oh=9a4b2437e8f0a30ba81413e8a6e71ad6&oe=54FAD88D&__gda__=1426336864_9890fd522fdffa517985bba7222a152 3

Next was exhaust manifold measurement time. About as close as I could hope from a donor from a Focus. The centre ports are pretty much bob on already, but the outer 2 headers need bringing about 2-3mm closer to centre for perfect fit. Torch heat and some elbow grease should sort that.

Decided to mount the exhaust manifold in a top mount position. Firstly the manifold will work either way up, and my TD04 turbo is a top mount so doing this, as I hoped I could, saves me having to take the TD04 apart and turn the core. Less work and looks cool. Theres still more than enough space to sort out the exhaust from there too.

Heres manifold in standard turbo position

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10375483_10152925111099577_1623752724575350848_n.j pg?oh=01850d936e4066ff6c8fbf3f0f222455&oe=5505CC37

And top mount position

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1378649_10152925110864577_6793244052615541197_n.jp g?oh=c0d1604c1520bf96eb7024aa44cf589c&oe=5547437B&__gda__=1426910530_84d5ee2a48509bb1d3129f6e6230a21 3

Top mount, in this case, also saves needing to relocate the oil filter too! (I may run a remote filter and cooler system anyway if oil temperature becomes an issue) :thumb:

There's still quite a bit to research and plan, especially on the management side as I've now decided to go with VEMS, and I'm sure the more experienced on here will already see gaps and problems in my thinking ^^, but I'm diving into this as a learning experience too....from build to mapping I'm doing the lot myself, with some help from the old man.

I'm not afraid of making mistakes and everything I'm using, apart from the management, will cost very little for the potential gains that can be had. So far the parts for this build I have to date probably equate to £200. Thats a donor engine, turbo, manifold, and intercooler. Main bits sorted very cheap!

_Jake
29-12-14, 02:42 AM
Wouldnt bother with an impreza turbo there crap. How much power are you aiming for?
also you may have space issues, im building A e16se turbo with a proper tublar manifold and a gt28. Everythings a bit tight (rad/oil filter) but ive made it work without a ****y ebay relocation kit. I wanted to go top mount originally but didnt due to space and how close the hotside would be to the plug leads. Being twin cam that wont matter but you may find the only way to top mount it will be a long runner manifold with the turbo nearly above the gearbox.

jimbob-mcgrew
29-12-14, 03:33 AM
looks sweet in the pic.
its a touch low at the back i think, but the colours and wheels suit it well :).

not keen on keeping the e16se ?

matt_vaughan
11-02-15, 10:25 PM
_Jake, nothing's insurmountable with a welder so I'm going to just go for it. Hopefully running top mount will allow a tab more breathing room for intercooler/radiator adjustment. I may also source an alternative radiator if things are tight up top.

I'll be happy with a basic initial 180-190 bhp as a sealed engine. With some decent mapping I'd be very happy with above 200.

jim-bob, I love the urgency of the e16, but I've hankered after doing this since dreaming it up delving through old migweb and daewootech threads.

ben doodar
11-02-15, 10:46 PM
Very interesting project. Nice to see lots of information being given. I'm currently building a c16se turbo and I'm very interested in reading more on the Daiwoo rods and pistons. Have you any links to threads that might be helpful.
Funny how your using a focus manifold. I deliver parts for an auto factors and remember having a focus manifold in once I can remember thinking that's ripe for a turbo manifold.

Southie
07-08-15, 07:47 PM
Any updates Matt?

ben doodar
07-08-15, 11:55 PM
What he said ^