View Full Version : XE Valve timing
I have just put my XE back together after the oil pump.
I bought new cam pulleys as the originals had a bit of wear.
I put it all back together and it was running badly.....I tried moving the teeth on the cams one forward and one backwards....no joy.
Then I realised there is a front and rear pulley...oops I had them the wrong way.
I have tried to get it running tonight (2 and half hours in the rain) and I am getting nowhere.
Before turning the engine, I turn the engine by hand two revolutions. If it won't turn then I didn't turn the engine as I was worried that it would burst valves so I have it on the easiest to turn.
Is there a way to check the cam timing? The crank pulley is an aftermarket job with no mark.
Has someone got a pic of the two cam pulleys just so I can check I am aligning them correctly.
dgbnova#1
28-08-14, 08:30 PM
O my god there is no mark so how did you time it ?
Im not sure about the front to back pullys but just guessing and putting it 2 teeth out is prob not the best idea
if I was you would get it timed spot on by someone who knows about the engines and then do a compression test on it to see if there is any at all
jimbob-mcgrew
28-08-14, 08:43 PM
soz marc, posted in your oil pump thread.
as well as those other pics... if you have no marker on the aux pulley. you can make one yourself, by turning the engine over by hand with plug no.1 out, and using something suitable, like a wire coat hanger or a blunt edged long screwdriver + torch to double check, when piston no.1 is at its peak point in height, thats TDC, top dead centre.
craig green
28-08-14, 08:48 PM
Agree TDC can be found using something blunt down no1 cylinder (plug out). There is a dimple punch mark on the toothed lower pulley which is much more reliable for these purposes rather than the outer GM pulley with the pointer on which is rubber mounted to its inner & can be innaccurate.
Should be plenty of guides with pics on various forums. Just be precise & make sure the upper pointers line up with the markings, even just a fraction out isnt good enough.
Thanks for that, I recall from somewhere before the piston no1 thing, I'll be ready for looking at the pulley in more datail and checking with the piston tomorrow then!
Southie
28-08-14, 09:09 PM
A little help on getting TDC:
http://m.wikihow.com/Find-Your-Engine's-Top-Dead-Center-(TDC)
Inlet and exhaust cam pulleys are the same, you sure you have XE ones?
crank pulley has a mark that lines up with a notch in the metal backing plate and oil pump right at the bottom.
Never time it up using the aux pulley, aftermarket or not as the rubber damper can slip round.
Like Lee said, the damper slips and makes the bottom pulley useless as a timing tool!
take yours off and spin the crank around to line the notches up. Hope you haven't already nicked the vales though!
I went out and braved the rain again today (what a joy) and lined up the crank, it is easy as said, the cover and oil pump have the marks.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo751_zps0677b819.jpg
Then checked the cams which were advanced one so pulled them back.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo752_zpsf2f6afd5.jpg
But unfortunately there is no improvement, the best description I can say is it sounds like a harley davidson idling.....so is that valves?
I removed each lead and put a plug on to see if there was spark which there was.
If it is can they really go by turning the engine by hand? Also bearing in mind I was only one tooth mark out originally.
craig green
29-08-14, 07:07 PM
Sorry to hear your woes dude, I've known XE's to have jumped a tooth & still run OK not mashed the valves, however that probably depends which pulley jumped the teeth & which direction. Easiest way to ascertain if the valves have suffered is to do a compression test.
Sorry to hear your woes dude, I've known XE's to have jumped a tooth & still run OK not mashed the valves, however that probably depends which pulley jumped the teeth & which direction. Easiest way to ascertain if the valves have suffered is to do a compression test.
Thanks, I will need to do that before I decide on anything else. Is there anyway to check if there is compression without having to buy the compression tool? Ran out of money with all the stuff bought......although I have just been on amazon, is it worthwhile getting one for £12? I could have saved £40 on the last two months car tax on it!
jimbob-mcgrew
29-08-14, 09:11 PM
did you take it back to the crank belt pulley, to set the marker ?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/chemfish/A8.jpg
jimbob-mcgrew
29-08-14, 09:17 PM
are those replacement cam pulleys exactly the same as the ones that came off ?
- same shape tooth profile
- same amount of teeth
- rear locating pin in same position
- timing marks in same place
did you take it back to the crank belt pulley, to set the marker ?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/chemfish/A8.jpg
is this not the actual crank on the xe?
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo751_zps0677b819.jpg
are those replacement cam pulleys exactly the same as the ones that came off ?
- same shape tooth profile
- same amount of teeth
- rear locating pin in same position
- timing marks in same place
Yes, I double checked them against the originals......I will be gutted if after all this the valves are gone.
Another question, perhaps daft? As all cylinders seem to be equally sounding bad.......
would the crank be a complete turn out?
jimbob-mcgrew
29-08-14, 10:24 PM
im confused now, lol, ill shutup i think
im confused now, lol, ill shutup i think
Please don't shut up.....I need more ideas!
this sounds dreadful.
Time it up correctly and go from there
jimbob-mcgrew
29-08-14, 11:12 PM
Please don't shut up.....I need more ideas!
if you stick a long thin screwdriver, or something similar down plug hole no.1, and turn the engine over by hand slowly. when piston no.1 is at the peak of its motion, where abouts are the 3 timing marks at that point
jimbob-mcgrew
29-08-14, 11:15 PM
would the crank be a complete turn out?
im not sure, never done it myself.
its possible.
ive got the ignition timing 180 degrees out before, putting the dizzy on wrong, but the belt controls mechanical timing, rather than ignition timing
if you stick a long thin screwdriver, or something similar down plug hole no.1, and turn the engine over by hand slowly. when piston no.1 is at the peak of its motion, where abouts are the 3 timing marks at that point
I did this today and it is where all the marks should be ie aligned. I am going to try changing all the plugs tomorrow just in the naieve hope.....
Also my dad mentioned that getting someone to turn the starter with my thumb over each piston in turn should tell me if one of the pistons has no compression? So long as I don't get my thunb blown off!
im not sure, never done it myself.
its possible.
ive got the ignition timing 180 degrees out before, putting the dizzy on wrong, but the belt controls mechanical timing, rather than ignition timing
I'll try this as a last resort after everything else and if it's not that then there must be damaged valves.
Thanks for sticking with it, even I have nearly walked from it lol
jimbob-mcgrew
30-08-14, 12:19 AM
have you had the spark plug leads on and off alot ?
double check the plug leads, they might be in the wrong order, or have loosened, and its running on 3.
in the book here it says 1-3-4-2.
is yours a dizzy drive model ? (not sure on rotor arm position, maybe 1 o clock for plug 1 ? .. with an anti-clockwise firing pattern)
or is it the non-adjustable coil pack ? (no idea of the lead order in those)
jimbob-mcgrew
30-08-14, 12:23 AM
i suppose it would be worth checking the plugs individually for a spark too, to rule out any ignition issues
What is the point checking the plugs? It ran before the pump was removed and now its back together its running like a bag of sh1t.
No genius needed here like.
Mine is a coil pack, I have checked the plugs and they all spark but with it running for a few minutes...plug 1 and 4 don't come out sooty, they come out wet so.......I assume that tells me which cylinder has burnt valves........
I have been thinking what to do next and it seems that turning the engine by hand I have somehow bent/damaged valves (are they made from putty?)
So I have two choices either repair it or get rid of it as it is.....
My questions this time are ...is it a lot harder/different to remove/refit the head on an XE than it is on a SOHC (I did my SR last year)?
Once the head is off, is it difficult to remove/refit valves?
Again, any advice is much appreciated.
Please don't take this the wrong way but considering the problems you made with this relatively easy job would you trust yourself to remove and refit the valves and collets correctly.
IMO its an easy job if not a little time consuming relapping 16 valves back in (might as well do them all even if only a couple are bent). In your situation I'd recommend removed the head yourself, getting someone else to rebuild it (probably cheaper the buy another head) as the correct exhaust valves are mega expensive and then you reassemble the engine but be very careful with the timing this time.
Southie
31-08-14, 11:19 AM
I'd be looking for another engine tbh it sounds like your just making things worse by attempting to fix it, sorry if it sounds harsh but you'll keep plowing money into this to get it just running when you can get an XE cheap enough with less hassle.
Please listen to what people are saying.
Time it up and do a compression test.
It doesn't get much plainer tbh.
dgbnova#1
31-08-14, 07:18 PM
Take head off send it to Philip on here or local engine shop get head re built then get someone to help re build it and time it and yes one tooth out is enough to bend valves and you ran it not just by hand that is it prob reved the nuts out of it to get it to clear
meritlover
31-08-14, 09:07 PM
Another question, perhaps daft? As all cylinders seem to be equally sounding bad.......
would the crank be a complete turn out?
No
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