View Full Version : FAO - Motorsport People - Drive Shafts.
dionbee
20-03-14, 06:26 PM
Hi, I've searched and asked this many a time to different people and still havent got the answer I'm after
Basically I'm going to be running a 1600 8v on carb, Fitted with a quaife SCCR gearkit and Quaife ATB diff.
My car is currently a 1.2 road rally car and I'm running standard shafts (Good enough for 70bhp)
BUT - I know that they will be put under strain and probably will snap running the new 1600 setup, So my question is:
Without going Gripper or Hockly shafts, What solutions are there? i've heard a lot saying "Use F20 CV's" and "Big block shaft conversions" blah blah, but what is actually involved in this? What do I need to change from my setup to that one?
Cheers for any help and Part no's and Pictures will be very welcomed.
Dion.
Scottcooper85
20-03-14, 06:30 PM
Can you not just use gsi/gte shafts? Probably a lot less messing about.
dgbnova#1
20-03-14, 06:44 PM
To run f20 shafts I would think u need f20 or similar diff may be wrong but unless there is small block to big shaft inner cv your stuck to what u got
dionbee
20-03-14, 06:47 PM
Its a massive hassle finding standard GTE/GSI shafts nowadays especially the hub for them. I'd rather do the work now to save the hassle in the long run.
Dion
dionbee
20-03-14, 06:49 PM
To run f20 shafts I would think u need f20 or similar diff may be wrong but unless there is small block to big shaft inner cv your stuck to what u got
Exactly what I thought dgbnova, but I've since found that it's possible to run some sort of setup with f20 Side gears on an f13 to allow it somehow. I'm not sure myself.
I just wanted the strongest setup possible for a couple hundred quid maybe rather than spending £700 for a pair of hockly.
Dion.
dgbnova#1
20-03-14, 06:58 PM
All nova hubs are the same gte-1l no difference
shafts well gte ones are obovs stronger people run xe conversions on them FFS that's what I would look for fairly common on eBay and I may have 1 side here but cannot be sure 100% on that
All nova hubs are the same gte-1l no difference
shafts well gte ones are obovs stronger people run xe conversions on them FFS that's what I would look for fairly common on eBay and I may have 1 side here but cannot be sure 100% on that
thought different models had different splines?
dgbnova#1
20-03-14, 07:15 PM
Inside the cv yes outside all the same both ends
I know a lad who can make shafts. Does them for autograss. Ment too be bulletproof. Drd racing. Should find on the web
dgbnova#1
20-03-14, 07:35 PM
Prob not worth it in this case as the inner cv would be the week link then I'd think
phunkynova
20-03-14, 07:46 PM
I have 130 bhp using a Tran-x LSD diff, Quaife SCCR box on standard shafts, never had a problem once. only time you may have a problem is giving full power and wheel spinning with full lock and then the short shaft CV may let go.
dstevenson
20-03-14, 07:55 PM
Hi,
I have run a rally nova with 1400 16v, Quaife sccr f15, with standard nova shafts for 4 years with no shaft/cv problems at all. Engine is good spec with 170bhp, 120ftlbs so your 1600 8v shouldn't be much more unless it is very high spec.
The secret as recommended to me and apparently done by the works cars back in the day - run lock stops in the rack to limit the lock, it is load at full lock that just wrecks the cv. HHMS show them on their site, but v easy to make them out of a bit of nylon bar.
Other key is to regularly check/service/change out the outer cvs - cheap as chips on EBay - I was buying joints for £11 ea so really no excuse for not keeping them fresh!
David
I cannot for the life of me see why standard shafts wont be adequate enough.
dionbee
20-03-14, 08:07 PM
So the outer joints ALL have the same amount of splines and its just the number of splines on the main 'shaft' (Bar) that is different?
I thought the hub (Inner part of wheel bearing) were different on spec/models?
Dion.
dionbee
20-03-14, 08:09 PM
just seen the posts on the second page, I think that the main part is then to chuck some lock stops onto the car and run Standard GTE/GSI shafts, Would people say that that makes sense?
Dion.
phunkynova
20-03-14, 08:14 PM
Only difference between GTE and the other shafts are the number of splines IT DOSE NOT make them stronger just more hard to find so your better with none GTE ones as they are easier to find.
dionbee
20-03-14, 08:33 PM
So is what you're saying Phunkynova, that my 1.2 standard shafts are the same as 1.4 sri or anything else like that (Excluding GTE/GSI)
Dion
dgbnova#1
20-03-14, 08:39 PM
Yes only gte /Gsi the main shafts and internals of the cvs are different I would assume they are stronger were the cv joins otherwise why bother doing it but as has been stated for ease of finding replacements your better off useing any other ones you get hold of
dionbee
20-03-14, 08:47 PM
Tidy, Looks like fresh CV's for my shafts then, where do people normally buy them from?
Dion
phunkynova
20-03-14, 08:51 PM
Answer is Yes not to sure why they put more splines on the GTE ones. I can not see it make them stronger as the weak point is the CV it self and not the splines. But as we have said it takes some doing to bust one that's well maintained (CV).
dionbee
20-03-14, 09:00 PM
Yeah, I guess It's just like anything else really.. If it's well maintained, it won't fail.
Cheers to everyone for their input, and any links to CV's would be appreciated.
Dion
Any motor factors will sell Cv's
dionbee
20-03-14, 11:35 PM
Grand, cheers to everyone for their help! I'll order lockstops from hockly in the morning.
Dion
mk1nova_rich
21-03-14, 06:20 AM
If the car is lowered, there are spacers you can.buy to fit between shaft and hub to keep the correct amount of 'plunge' in the CV joints...may be something to consider as they help extend CV joint life
http://hh-ms.com/parts-catalogue/?SelCategoryID=5&SelModelID=13&SelSubCategoryID=33
Bottom of the page - not sure which type of shaft they are for but you can get them for standard ones :thumb:
RallyMarshal
21-03-14, 07:01 AM
Just to add my 2 penneth...
Hockley does an F10/F13/F15 ZF based diff with F20 side gears. This allows you to run bigger inner cvs shafts and bigger outer CVs but then you need custom shafts ad/or hubs for a Nova. There is a specific type of inner CV from a Mk2 Cavalier running an F16 box that mates with a Nova shaft but that wont solve the issue for you.
If you already have F10/F13/F15 spec diff with those side gears, use lockstops and/or a 6mm washer on the inside face of the hub. The issue isnt usually with the shafts snapping, but the amount of plunge in the outer CV cage on a car with more travel means that the cage literally pulls apart on full lock / full power and the bearings fall out. The lockstops prevent the lock and the washer essentially forces the shaft more together and prevents it from happening. Also your driving style (avoiding full lock, full power) can be modified to avoid the issue.
Paul..
dgbnova#1
21-03-14, 07:46 AM
Not seen the f20 mod diff you mention but I would ashume it's just to run the standard xe shafts you can buy for a nova ? And handy info on the spacers I take it they go on the outer cv before fitting to the hub ? That size 6 mm same size as a standard hub nut washer?
RallyMarshal
01-09-14, 12:26 PM
Not seen the f20 mod diff you mention but I would ashume it's just to run the standard xe shafts you can buy for a nova ? And handy info on the spacers I take it they go on the outer cv before fitting to the hub ? That size 6 mm same size as a standard hub nut washer?
Only just noticed this reply...
Yes, its to allow you to run std F16/F18/F20 Inner CVs. I ran a Quaife F10 SCCR cluster with ZF F20 sidegear diff on my Mk2 Astra. Obviously easier for me as I could then just use standard GTE shafts, inner and outer CVs.
Paul..
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