Bottom Ball Joint - Anything better to replace it with?

[novarally]

Just wondered if anyone has found a better replacement for the standard Nova bottom ball joint?

I'm obviously aware of Uniballs, but interested to hear from anyone who's gone another route.

[mowgli]

you could go all rose jointed, but you might need new hubs to make it all strong enough.

[novarally]

I'm still thinking about replacing the bottom ball joint, anyone got any thoughts? (retaining standard type track control arms/tie bars)

There must be a way to do it with a spherical bearing, but if someone has done it already it would make my life simpler.

[meritlover]

how many failures have you had that could be attributed to the current design?

[Scottcooper85]

Something like this ...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/scottcooper85/Mobile%20Uploads/2360F7EF-6755-425F-BCA4-D51E9DF4A064_zpsduajnt2y.png (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/scottcooper85/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2360F7EF-6755-425F-BCA4-D51E9DF4A064_zpsduajnt2y.png.html)

[novarally]

Something like this ...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/scottcooper85/Mobile%20Uploads/2360F7EF-6755-425F-BCA4-D51E9DF4A064_zpsduajnt2y.png (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/scottcooper85/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2360F7EF-6755-425F-BCA4-D51E9DF4A064_zpsduajnt2y.png.html)

No, I'm talking about the other end, the part that goes into the bottom of the hub.

[novarally]

how many failures have you had that could be attributed to the current design?

None at all.

[Scottcooper85]

No, I'm talking about the other end, the part that goes into the bottom of the hub.

I meant do something similar at the hub end?

[Peredur]

Can I ask the question, Why not UniBalls? Proven in rallying so got to be good enough for a blast up a hill every so often surely

[turbo-boy]

i have standard (new) ball joints in my turbo and class these to be the weakest part of my setup, but i havnt personaly ever seen a failed unit,anyone shed any light

[novarally]

Can I ask the question, Why not UniBalls? Proven in rallying so got to be good enough for a blast up a hill every so often surely

Nothing wrong with Uniballs, I was just curious if anyone had done something else (and possibly cheaper).

[mowgli]

if you went with a spherical bearing, rose joint, (whatever) the biggest problem is how to fasten it on both sides & create something stronger & lighter than the stock setup. if you were planning to do a new bottom wishbone tubulat design, then it would make life simpler, but if you plan to keep the original bottom arm, it would be quite tricky imho.

with a rosejoint type coupling, it would always be a compromise because you really need to have a double shear joint (metal both sides) for max strength.

what sort of thing do you have in mind?

[blue_peg_16v]

i have standard (new) ball joints in my turbo and class these to be the weakest part of my setup, but i havnt personaly ever seen a failed unit,anyone shed any light


I sheered 2 on my old xe snapped the pin in the hub were brand new patterns, did one place said it must of been faulty so fitted another and the same happened, I will only use genuine gm ones now due to this

[Benn]

Really^

I've only ever seen one snap and that was on a 490brake Corsa Turbo.

[meritlover]

I sheered 2 on my old xe snapped the pin in the hub were brand new patterns,

doing what?

[turbo-boy]

was your hub worn causing abit of movement? im using brand new pattern ones in mine

[therealnovaboy]

its not the ball popping out/snapping thats the reason for an upgrade. The main idea behind the uniball is to stop relying in the 8mm pinch bolt that goes through the side of the hub to hold in the standard ball joint.

the uniball has a big bolt with a nut on the top making it nearly impossible to pull it out the hole on the hub.

[Andy]

Iv raced all season on patterns and they're still fine,and that's serious hammer.

[turbo-boy]

think im using standard pinch bolts

[Benn]

Snap^ (see what i did there?)

Mine are maybe 5 years old...

[therealnovaboy]

i think when you compare a rally car and a show car/road car/track you will find most standard parts will be more than adequate for day to day use.

[Benn]

Could you not machine dill the pinch bolt out to be m10? That would be stronger.... And machine the grove in the ball joint.

[mowgli]

the m8 bolt is hardly a weak spot. & fitting a new 12.9 one with a decent locking nut would make it more than strong enough.

even if the pinch bolt was only finger tight, it would take some serious abuse to actually get the hub & joint to part.

[Andy]

Could you not machine dill the pinch bolt out to be m10? That would be stronger.... And machine the grove in the ball joint.
you would then weaken the knuckle
the bolt isn't the weak spot

[Benn]

Yeah i guess and no true.

What did rally cars use? Guessing a rose joint?

[mowgli]

the uniball.

http://superfwd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Nova-Offset-01W1.jpg

[therealnovaboy]

or

http://hh-ms.com/parts_images/1177940276.jpg

[craig green]

Uniballs, which are merely a spherical bearing in a machined body were developed for rallying & landing jumps. I would agree the std setup is flawed but it is plenty strong enough for what most people would dish out on a road/tarmac car. Only failures I've heard of involve shonky pattern parts or dubious mechanics.

[Stuart]

the m8 bolt is hardly a weak spot. & fitting a new 12.9 one with a decent locking nut would make it more than strong enough.

even if the pinch bolt was only finger tight, it would take some serious abuse to actually get the hub & joint to part.


12.x grade is bad in suspension parts. 10.9 is the max you really want as it will bend rather than snap due to brittleness of the 12

[turbo-boy]

so im gathering that new gm ball jonts and 10.9 pinch bolts are sweet for road use with abit of fun in a c20let nova

[blue_peg_16v]

doing what?


Normal driving

first went accelerating from a set of lights the second accelerating off a roundabout both lasted about 2 weeks

there carnt of been play in the hub causing it as the hub was never changed and whe. The Vauxhall ones were fitted they were fine

[Benn]

or

http://hh-ms.com/parts_images/1177940276.jpg

If your gonna do it, that's the kit i'd use!

[mowgli]

i bet it doesn't clear a big block gearbox though...........

[Benn]

iirc they do, Jon's kits are on a few let novas

[novatracker]

i found this pic on my laptop but not a nova http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae31/martyg2/1476634_246167878875571_540681638_n_zpse19cc626.jp g (http://s955.photobucket.com/user/martyg2/media/1476634_246167878875571_540681638_n_zpse19cc626.jp g.html)

[novarally]

If your gonna do it, that's the kit i'd use!

Yes, it's what I'd like to use, but not at £1000+ (and not a straight bolt-on for my car with the spaaceframed front).

[Benn]

Sadly no, not a cheap kit. Do you tie bars mount differently?

[novarally]

Sadly no, not a cheap kit. Do you tie bars mount differently?

Yes, my mounts are different, although I do have rose jointed tie bars on there.

[Peredur]

Jonlem's kits are £450, listed in the mig classifieds recently, to all intents and purposes they're as near as damn it the same thing. Also, there's a similar kit made by SuperFWD (google them) can't vouch for the quality of either item but they look to be fit for purpose. there were questions asked about the SuperFWD kit on the rally forum regarding how the kit'd take rally abuse but I'd imagine that they'd be tough enough for a tarmac car (and even a gravel car if you don't drive like a heffalump)

[Iain]

Jonlems kit still uses a standard balljoint or uniball though so doesn't solve the question in this thread.

[Peredur]

TBH, for the hassle involved in designing and building a one-off solution, I don't really see what the benefit would be over UniBalls.