View Full Version : To acid dip or not
That is the question I had a quote to day for £ 3500 to dip the gsi an e coat not a huge surprise as my dad had his a35 dipped for about the same price . I know some of you guys have strong opinions about it for various reasons an my dads did come back with some dents an things. But the thing that bothers me is how else can I get a bare shell and have piece of mind that no rust is lurking in the chassis rails. I have thought about soda blasting all painted surfaces an shot blasting the underside an engine bay but this isn't going to solve the chassis prob please tell me your thoughts experiences suggestions cheers guys
paul james
13-02-14, 07:20 PM
Perhaps you can get one of those little cameras that can extends into small areas, and check for rust that way? Personally I wouldn't take a shell completely back to bare metal unless it actually needed it, seems like a good way to potentially let rust in.
the prob I have is that the car is covered in wax oil underneath but there was no prep so now im finding a couple of holes and some rust and the previous paint job was just filler over any bad bits and then paint. I have now brought new gm wings doors bonnet new sills and rear arches for compete bare shell rebuild but I don't want to put all new parts on a half assed shell
Dipping it will bemove the rust, but leave holes where it. Which if you can see you can fix... see where im going?
Southie
13-02-14, 07:39 PM
Get a quote off these guys, Colin (Novarally) had his done here with good results, they're based in Preston Lancashire though:
paint-strip.co.uk
The main reason not to dip, imo, is that some of the solution inevitably remains in between the panels etc and then seeps out over time.
You don't want that.
dgbnova#1
13-02-14, 07:57 PM
It's an odd one this I've looked and every way you go there is gona be more than one opinion
I'm not sure what you say about dents do you mean the company dented it or just on the shell and filled over
And they appear after the strip
blasting leaves dust
that price 3500 seemed a lot
if it was me I would cut off and repair what you can see then get it done
jonesy1
13-02-14, 07:58 PM
How about having the shell dipped but have it galvanised you can paint over it after and should give a long lasting shell
Ben that's what I want blank canvas so no more suprises if its dipped I can then repair where needed giving me a sound solid shell. Dave the dents thing was my dads shell doors got dented bonnet as well all done by spl Birmingham and I think we all know about keiths shell an probs so a bit cautious plus £ 3500 is for dipping, zinc primmer, then when u return the shell any surface rust is removed an then e coated its a lot of wedge I can get it soda and fine media blasted for £ 500
Southie
13-02-14, 08:12 PM
I wouldn't advice soda blasting tbh, have a read through this:
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?202844-Soda-blasting
dgbnova#1
13-02-14, 08:14 PM
Think what bens saying is it will remove rust were you cannot repair not without major problems
I think the prices I looked at were lower for the same stuff iirc think would need to be special car for me to go that far
I'm not sure who would have a tank big enough to galv plate a shell though
know what your saying dave about a special car but I plan on keeping it for a long time and its by no means a cr&p shell compared to what some people have saved on here to their credit. Hadn't thought about not being able to get to the holes after dipping and if I have it blasted we have some very big compressors at work that should remove any media left behind. If u look on rust.co.uk they do a service for cavites that involves pumping rust killer in to them and then a check up when ever u want and retreat if needed
Novasport
13-02-14, 08:29 PM
Would not recommend it, I had a bad experience with dipping. If you must though just dont use SPL as they are the biggest bunch of cnuts I have ever met.
craig green
14-02-14, 01:15 AM
Backing up Rich's advice, personally I would get a home blasting kit & use it to go at areas requiring repair, not the whole thing.
As has been said, taking it back to bare metal is inviting rust in.
Btw those cameras that can be used inside cavities etc are about to be stocked in Lidl's for £69, I happened to see in there latest mail-out.
I have one of them camera, fantastic thing. Use it in bores too. I looked down my chassis legs with it, where surprising clear in there..lol
Inviro-strip iirc in tamworth. Lad I know just had his evo8 shell done. My 6rs was done at spl few years back but ill be looking at these lads to redo it. As heard of 2 cars being done by spl and acid weeps out of joints and wrecked the cars. Inviro dip, wash, prime and something else. Lad with 8 knew about acid weeping from spl so avoided them.
turbojolt
14-02-14, 09:34 AM
you can get a drain camera from toolstation for fairly cheap
When i removed the front end over xmas i got a look down the chassis legs and bar a bit of surface rust there pretty good but have now discovered a hole in the inner drivers arch that looks like it has gone into thae chassis leg hence the reason for dipping it so i know its clea Or i get the legs treated. Surely a stripped shell is the best starting point and with modern paint an epoxy primer it would be better than when it left the factory
craig green
14-02-14, 02:18 PM
I have one of them camera, fantastic thing. Use it in bores too. I looked down my chassis legs with it, where surprising clear in there..lol
I had a poke about inside the rear legs of this shell I have here in my garage, my fingers came out with no signs of any rust or corrosion at all, I'd have expected an Orangey tinge on my fingers, but they are utterly clear of any corrosion it seems.
SPL are used by a lot of very reputable companies, however I have heard a few horror stories which puts me off.
We spoke to a company at Autosport called Pro Strip, they use a chemical they formulated themselves which they claim just dissolves away once used so it will not sit around like the acid SPL use. They do not ecoat though, they use a spray on primer which appears to get to most areas, Dinitrol is advised to be used for everywhere else.
We have also spoken with Retropower and their take on it is to blast only, if the metal falls apart that whole area requires work, the downside to this is I know from experience it will never get to all the areas nor will it remove underseal which on a Resto is critical.
Any of these jobs are costly but if you're doing a Resto the cost is irrelevant as the job needs to be right.
My mate just got a quote of 2.5k for his c2r2 rally car to be dipped, can't remember where he got that quote from though i'll ask him.
SPL are used by a lot of very reputable companies, however I have heard a few horror stories which puts me off.
We spoke to a company at Autosport called Pro Strip, they use a chemical they formulated themselves which they claim just dissolves away once used so it will not sit around like the acid SPL use. They do not ecoat though, they use a spray on primer which appears to get to most areas, Dinitrol is advised to be used for everywhere else.
We have also spoken with Retropower and their take on it is to blast only, if the metal falls apart that whole area requires work, the downside to this is I know from experience it will never get to all the areas nor will it remove underseal which on a Resto is critical.
Any of these jobs are costly but if you're doing a Resto the cost is irrelevant as the job needs to be right.
Cheers jonlem have just emailed pro strip to get a quote from them, another big plus is its 5 mins down the road from my brother I have asked to see them next month when im going that way. The fact that they don't e-coat doesn't bother me that much as I plan to use epoxy mastic primer and once I know the cavites are clean pump the chassis full of dinitrol
You get it E-dipped some where else? Of modify a spray gun to have a long tube on the end so you can blow etch primer or something in to the legs and bits. As even with Cavity stuff i'd still want paint in there....
I now have a quote from pro strip they phos strip non acidic dip eats all rust - oxidisation, underseal, seam sealer, and paint. Then its dipped in rust inhibitor after this process they offer anti corrosion zinc phosphate epoxy the process is an electrostatic process which to me sounds like e-coating ???? as I said im heading that way next month so gona go and watch the process and see what I think. I take on board what your saying ben after any treatment paint as well cant hurt ?
You get it E-dipped some where else? Of modify a spray gun to have a long tube on the end so you can blow etch primer or something in to the legs and bits. As even with Cavity stuff i'd still want paint in there....
No need, Dinitrol is far better than a bit of paint in the hard to reach areas. I'll post up a pic of our demo piece we have left outside in the rain !
abznovasport
15-02-14, 09:16 PM
Have a look at my WIP thread, you will see the results of dipping there. I got it done at SPL. Im waiting to take the shell back down to be ecoated now but they have changed suppliers who they use to use and are in the progress of making new cradles for the dipping baths.
Only worry I have is, air in the tnk if shell is not put in at the right angle leaving bare metal at the roof and the fact they dip it again in milder solution before e-coat. they just use a jet wash to wash acid away, if not washed properly the paint wont stick. Im also going to drill holes in the shell to allow paint in and air out, sills etc.
So with hindsite would you still have had your car dipped I ask because im having the same dilemma I think the shell is ok but the chassis legs are the concern and as bazil said I don't want it rotting from the inside out
Novasport
16-02-14, 04:16 PM
SPL drilled the roof on Keith Robinsons shell and trashed his doors.
bazzap8389
16-02-14, 04:40 PM
Is it the front or rear chassis legs that are the concern? If it's the front why not just buy new ones then you won't have to worry about dipping?
bazza its not so much the front ones as I had a look down them when I put a new front panel in it over winter its the back ones and in particular the drivers side as I discovered a hole the other week on the inner wing and it looks to have gone into the chassis rail and from what I could see there is rust in there. so I either dip it or find another solution for the prob of the rails other than that I think I could just scrape the underside of the car repair where nessesary and go from there
craig green
16-02-14, 07:05 PM
I now have a quote from pro strip they phos strip non acidic dip eats all rust - oxidisation, underseal, seam sealer, and paint. Then its dipped in rust inhibitor after this process they offer anti corrosion zinc phosphate epoxy the process is an electrostatic process which to me sounds like e-coating ???? as I said im heading that way next month so gona go and watch the process and see what I think. I take on board what your saying ben after any treatment paint as well cant hurt ?
From what I gather, SPL were the first company myself & many others in the Vauxhall world had heard of that offer this, but it's simply their way of handling bodies whilst in their care that is the issue. Classic car owners pander after the bodywork of cherished cars, a small dent is enough to make a mint car look ugly, so why when enthusiasts send their pride & joy to a company like SPL (who charge thousands for a pretty simple process) would anyone want the pride & joy abused??
If you have found a more professional outfit that can do the same job, with a better reputation to back it up. Go there.
SPL drilled the roof on Keith Robinsons shell and trashed his doors.
Thought his doors got trashed on route from OCP?
They drill the roof on yours/mine?
dgbnova#1
16-02-14, 10:35 PM
SPL drilled the roof on Keith Robinsons shell and trashed his doors.
Drilled for what reason ?
Novasport
16-02-14, 10:42 PM
Drilled for what reason ?
To stop the air trap in the roof. That is how they work, they are a bunch of pikey's
Thought his doors got trashed on route from OCP?
They drill the roof on yours/mine?
SPL trashed his doors first, that is why he had to get replacements from OCP. No, they did not drill yours, I had to sort the mess they left as per the project thread. Ade had to pull the front panel bacl straight after they bent that with the fork truck then denied it. They would not pay for Keiths doors either iirc.
Novasport
16-02-14, 10:44 PM
Boils my p!ss just thinking about when I dealt with the pikey b@stards. Wish I had never heard of them Grrr
Yeah they sound like ****s tbh
As you know I've since found other issues with their work that I have now sorted
bazzap8389
16-02-14, 10:58 PM
I'm glad I heard bad things about them or my car would have been down there!
dgbnova#1
16-02-14, 10:59 PM
Jesus what a complete fuc£ up who drills someone's car for any reason just mental
Not sure if it was the same when you took your shells but on the web site video they now turn the car 90 egrees lower it in drivers side first. That stops the roof issue but not sure if it then creates other issues. Someone did suggest pumping a load of nitromorse in the legs first and not bother to dip it never heard of nitromorse though?
Novasport
17-02-14, 09:17 AM
Nitromors is just a paint stripper not a corrosion remover
Only worry I have is, air in the tnk if shell is not put in at the right angle leaving bare metal at the roof and the fact they dip it again in milder solution before e-coat. they just use a jet wash to wash acid away, if not washed properly the paint wont stick. Im also going to drill holes in the shell to allow paint in and air out, sills etc.
Now i thought it was dipped in a hot water bath after acid dipping to remove and kill the acid left anywhere hard to get?
Then air dried before Ecoating....
dgbnova#1
17-02-14, 11:39 AM
Not sure if it was the same when you took your shells but on the web site video they now turn the car 90 egrees lower it in drivers side first. That stops the roof issue but not sure if it then creates other issues. Someone did suggest pumping a load of nitromorse in the legs first and not bother to dip it never heard of nitromorse though?
Nitro morse will just leave a mess inside the legs and you still need to clean out the legs afterwards
Nitromors in not the product it once was, the chemical in it that made it any good is now deemed as unsafe to the environment. We use a trade only product that has all the chemical warnings on it and removes paint like nitromors once did, sadly not cheap but then Nitromors never was anyway.
Novasport
18-02-14, 02:31 PM
www.rust.co.uk
Great company with some great products and loads of excellent advice. They helped me sort the roof skin issue I had when SPL were shockingly useless and unhelpful as usual, after I discovered their shoddy workmanship.
Nitromors in not the product it once was, the chemical in it that made it any good is now deemed as unsafe to the environment. We use a trade only product that has all the chemical warnings on it and removes paint like nitromors once did, sadly not cheap but then Nitromors never was anyway.
Hear hear! The new recipe has made it piss weak, thanks to the good stuff having to be removed.
brainsnova
18-02-14, 05:36 PM
This might make you think wtf but how about removing the chassis legs and send them to be blasted and weld them back on
This might make you think wtf but how about removing the chassis legs and send them to be blasted and weld them back on
hats off to u fella never even thought of that I take it it is possible ? bit of hard work I imagine ?
Secondly I have decided against dipping if I cant guarantee the process 100% then I wont do it plus I re read the e-mail last nite an at the bottom it says the plant they use for e-coating is shutting if feb and they are looking for a new plant so if they cant e-coat then there aint any point in dipping it
Rich I have spoken to rust.co.uk very helpful indeed they do an injected proven rust converter that seals it to a solid state and stop it from advancing afer that a whole load of dinitrol should be sorted plus they will do it for me for £200 also thinking about having the shell crushed glass blasted an if I don't get every last bit out hey its glass an don't absorb moisture anyway
dgbnova#1
18-02-14, 06:39 PM
If you removed the legs you would be bonkers not to replace them with new ones have a look as Bazzaps car he's just had his done
We're talking about rear legs an as far as i know u can't get them any more plus mine ain't shot just some rust inside.
abznovasport
19-02-14, 01:58 AM
Now i thought it was dipped in a hot water bath after acid dipping to remove and kill the acid left anywhere hard to get?
Then air dried before Ecoating....
I think in the video on the web page they just jet wash it, I might be wrong though. I'll find out soon, mine is going down there again soon. :/
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