Needs some advice from any paint guru's

[TWAG]

My nova is going back to have the paintwork sorted out this week. IMO the whole car needs painting although that's not the opinion of the painter. For the those havnt seen my build thread the car was painted a bare shell back in July.

Im just looking for some advice on what has caused the problems I have.

Firstly the roof has started blistering not long after it was painted and to be be fair the painter has excepted it needs stripping right back, my concern which was confirmed today was that this blistering may appear over the rest of the car.

Heres some pics of the roof

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/26e0cb90b96f5788054bbfbc84c444d1_zps71ef737f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/00b7b2c72e0bff768823862bb76d013f_zps6941a77e.jpg

and here's a pic of what I found today on the b pillar, this has only appeared recently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/38a667d5ac82418b88a8ad802c14be8f_zpsde4e41b6.jpg

These are the other issues I have on pretty much every panel. It's very hard to see in the pictures but basically it looks like sanding marks in the paint. You can't feel them but with the sun on it, it looks s##t. What do you think has caused this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/b31a5a9386a38878bc9fa6f2eaba69ae_zps5ab58b7d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/0f9c887cd03c318dd21d306c4ad02e2a_zpsa91ea696.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/a172da53da16fb126470e11375e9f7fc_zpsf0750fed.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/13ec50120135ff4d23b8c0a5bb401050_zps5e94e809.jpg

Then there's the following problems, what do you think has caused this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/5dce57596a12cec20bb8283005e56c3b_zpsa4616c37.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/9817978376496480e268707666a856ca_zpsec9fef70.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/3da14d0f3e46843b229ab1a62b29a68a_zpsf5e9fbb2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/twag/nova%20paintwork/c6ed64358425793540041b742acd1cd0_zps2d694019.jpg


Any advice would be appreciated.

[Damo]

The bottom few pics look like the paint has not been flattened off enough so gives orange peeled effect.....

damo.

[EwanG]

I don't know much about paint. Maybe not enough prep or too much humidity in the paint shop?

[Lee H]

I had a corsa that broke out in those micro blisters. Think it's something to do with damp as seen a few cars come out with them that have been laid up. No excuse on this though.

I found a few imperfections in my paint job which disappointed me (car went back a few times), but nothing on the scale of that. Guessing you paid top money for it as well given the extent of the rest of the work you have done on the rebuild.

[Novasport]

Microblisters on the roof and pillars by the look of it.

http://www.hmgpaint.com/knowledge-base/pdf/KNB0030.pdf

[Novasport]

Have you had a car cover on it?

[Southie]

I'd be asking Nick J for his advice on this, he's done plenty of painting.

You must be fuming though.

[TWAG]

Have you had a car cover on it?

No the car has not a had a cover on it and has been stored outside under a carport. I have not washed it with anything other than plane water.

[Lee H]

Just remembered my previous civic did as well about 6 months after having the bonnet painted in winter. Bodyshop blamed it on the heat of the engine.

I've said it before, I will never have another car resprayed again. I know that doesn't help your situation but it was just far too much stress and hassle and it's never perfect.

[TWAG]

I had a corsa that broke out in those micro blisters. Think it's something to do with damp as seen a few cars come out with them that have been laid up. No excuse on this though.

I found a few imperfections in my paint job which disappointed me (car went back a few times), but nothing on the scale of that. Guessing you paid top money for it as well given the extent of the rest of the work you have done on the rebuild.

yes I paid over 3k which I am currently gutted about. Took a lot for me to commit to pay this kind of money but I just wanted a perfect paint job. Now there talking about repairing certain panels and blending the paint in which I feel really uneasy about.

[TWAG]

Just remembered my previous civic did as well about 6 months after having the bonnet painted in winter. Bodyshop blamed it on the heat of the engine.

I've said it before, I will never have another car resprayed again. I know that doesn't help your situation but it was just far too much stress and hassle and it's never perfect.

I know that feeling, This is without doubt the last time I ever have a car painted! Without the paint being perfect the whole rebuild has been a complete waste of time and money and I'm not talking about a small amount of money.

[Lee H]

yes I paid over 3k which I am currently gutted about. Took a lot for me to commit to pay this kind of money but I just wanted a perfect paint job. Now there talking about repairing certain panels and blending the paint in which I feel really uneasy about.

I'd feel uneasy too to be honest. Other thing is these issues seem to be appearing by the day so what's to say the parts they don't repaint won't break out soon. My went worse when we had some sun, obviously you haven't had that since this has been painted.

Also the lengths you went to to deliver a bare shell for paint, last thing you want now is masking lines and blended panels, you want it right but I can understand not wanting to strip the car down again.

I paid £1300 for my Nova to be painted, dropped a bare shell off like you did but it was there for over a year.

[Novasport]

The thing that worries me with bodyshops is they tend to push vehicles outside whatever the weather. If a shell is in primer, that is porous so it will suck up any rain or moisture in the air. When painted over the moisture is trapped by the paint.
I am looking to get the Spider painted and will wait until summer but even then I am concerned of any humidity. I am going to use an epoxy zinc primer to seal the bodywork to hopefully prevent issues but it is still down to the painters prep & workmanship to be top notch.

[robjenko]

The thing that worries me with bodyshops is they tend to push vehicles outside whatever the weather. If a shell is in primer, that is porous so it will suck up any rain or moisture in the air. When painted over the moisture is trapped by the paint.
I am looking to get the Spider painted and will wait until summer but even then I am concerned of any humidity. I am going to use an epoxy zinc primer to seal the bodywork to hopefully prevent issues but it is still down to the painters prep & workmanship to be top notch.

thats it spot on there!

I work in a decent bodyshop and we have had cars like this to repair - most recently an escort cosworth also given a bare metal respray (shoody work done elsewhere mind) that was covered with blisters.
these blisters look like moisture bubbles either from the primer soaking up the water when left standing in a damp area or could even be from the thinners used in with the primer (ie if they had used "gunwash" thinners that can contain up to 40% water!! insted of a quality 2k thinner) unfortunatly the only way to resolve this would be a complete return to bare and start again. these micro blisters can cause rust.

another point is that might not have helped is if they had waxed the car after painting as this will "seal" the topcat / lacquer not allowing it to breath. waxing should be avoided for a quite a few weeks until the paint is fully cured.

as for the other marks, they look like poor prep to me, they look like dry flatting with too low a grit of paper.

[Nick J]

Hi mate, very sorry to see this.... I will drop you a pm with my personal opinions.

Nick.

[meritlover]

It doesnt look like it has been prep'd properly. There are loads of sand scratches and you can see the primer isnt flatted properly. They didnt even bother to remove the window as there's paint all over the rubber. So it wouldnt surprise me if the above was true and it was left outside for a week. If its even a half reputable paint shop you could point these issues out all over the car and they cant deny the job has been done terribly badly and get them to give it another going over.
If you paid 3k for painting alone they could have at least of offered to pull your eyes out for as well.

[lee 16v]

thats it spot on there!

I work in a decent bodyshop and we have had cars like this to repair - most recently an escort cosworth also given a bare metal respray (shoody work done elsewhere mind) that was covered with blisters.
these blisters look like moisture bubbles either from the primer soaking up the water when left standing in a damp area or could even be from the thinners used in with the primer (ie if they had used "gunwash" thinners that can contain up to 40% water!! insted of a quality 2k thinner) unfortunatly the only way to resolve this would be a complete return to bare and start again. these micro blisters can cause rust.

another point is that might not have helped is if they had waxed the car after painting as this will "seal" the topcat / lacquer not allowing it to breath. waxing should be avoided for a quite a few weeks until the paint is fully cured.

as for the other marks, they look like poor prep to me, they look like dry flatting with too low a grit of paper.

this is what I was about to say. Also you can get water in the compressor if you dont have filters in line.
Either way it needs stripping back to metal and doing again.
The thing that looks like scratches are scratches under the base coat, to be fair to the painter some times you dont see these until you start painting, but if you use water base you can flat then out with a 2000 pad then base over them again.
If we have to put a car outside when its in primer, we cover it if its wet out and then put a heat lamp on it when it comes back in or put the heat on in the oven before we start work on it again.

[burgo]

3k is very top money so to get all those prep marks is pretty shoddy. My light blue saloon came out better than that and I prepped that.

[lee 16v]

As someone said it look like dry flatting marks from the block when rubbing the primer, you should then use a DA with p500 to remove these, if you miss them on a silver car, the silver base coat shows them all up, if the car was any other colour it wouldnt look as bad, the darker the colour the more you can get away with.

[Will F]

Painting and painters have always been a bug bear of mine. You need to find a painter that's reasonable and does a reasonable job. I've spend thousands and hundreds on jobs and to be honest they've come out similar, so because someone charges more really doesn't mean they're any better... As you know form experience unfortunately.

you then build a relationship with that company and so any feedback and jobs that need redoing become much easier and both parties expectations are managed and understood...

sorry to see you're having a nightmare, but it's one of those things. They should sort it for free and do any of the removing and refitting that you've had to do.

[lee 16v]

How big is this body shop? Is it a small one man type place?

[8valve-craig]

Have you considered trying to get as much of your money back as possible and going elsewhere? I think the poor prep speaks volumes about their level of workmanship, and to have been charged so much it just cant be justified. Having seen this in person and being pointed out the flaws I would also say the body wants completely stripping and re-painting.

Maybe ask to see some customers cars so you can decide if its a one off, or if his work is consistently sub-standard.

It really is an awesome build though, a real credit to you Craig.

[4ndyr]

blistering looks like a humidity problem or water in airline problem pal. some of the other parts are orange peel which can be sorted with a good flat and polish. some is **** prep which has left scratches under the paint which u will never get rid of. with a colour like that I would want them to strip it back. seal the shell. hi build prime the whole shell and flat it back to eliminate scratches then paint it again!!

[TWAG]

Thanks for all the information guys I appreciate the help. I now have a better understanding of the flaws. The paint shop are telling me its down to the paint manufactures which doesn't really make much sense.

as it stands I've been taken to the cleaners with this paint job and by the sounds of it unless its taken right back to bare metal it's never going to be right.

The company are a relatively big place and come with high recommendations. I've seen some of there work on other cars and I was impressed with what I saw. The original job was supposed to take 3 weeks and ended up taking 3 months. The first time the car was delivered it was a wreck so was painted again. I'm just praying that it will be 3rd time lucky.

I doubt I will get any money back so taking it to someone else is out of the question as I simply don't have the money. It cleared me out paying for it in the first place.

[dgbnova#1]

Thanks for all the information guys I appreciate the help. I now have a better understanding of the flaws. The paint shop are telling me its down to the paint manufactures which doesn't really make much sense.

as it stands I've been taken to the cleaners with this paint job and by the sounds of it unless its taken right back to bare metal it's never going to be right.

The company are a relatively big place and come with high recommendations. I've seen some of there work on other cars and I was impressed with what I saw. The original job was supposed to take 3 weeks and ended up taking 3 months. The first time the car was delivered it was a wreck so was painted again. I'm just praying that it will be 3rd time lucky.

I doubt I will get any money back so taking it to someone else is out of the question as I simply don't have the money. It cleared me out paying for it in the first place.


if it's the paint suppers fault then that's there problem to deal with , re paint ure car and they need to sort that with there supplier that's not ure problem they are having a laugh
if u got paperwork receipts take them to court if they don't sort it nothing worse for your reputation than bring dragged to court for crap work

faulty paint my ****

[lee 16v]

As said, either way its not your problem, the paint work is not right so they need to fix it.

[burgo]

Dodgy paint creating prep marks is a new one on me lol

[Andy]

whats their problem,the paint not as thick as the bullsh1t they talk to cover the prepwork? which looks like theyve used a breezeblock in places.
The blisters in the paint you could accept as a bad reaction but that prep is just downright shoddy workmanship.
Id be seething.absolutely furious.

[TWAG]

Going back over there thismorning to have another chat, at least now i have the info I need.

[Shamish82]

In my experience usually down to bad prep. The curing process not done right I think.

[Benn]

First, i can't believe i missed you again.

I'm really shocked at how many blisters you have, That's is really bad, and i hope they'll bare metal all the parts that need it (roof and pillars) They can be from solvent "pop" if primer/paint hasn't dried fully too, not just just moisture.
I do know that the car was never out side. So it never got wet.
Gutted the job came out so badly again. I'm ashamed i sent you in there now.

The sanding marks can come back though as primer stat to sink down, but as it was primed dried, sanded then re primed i really didn't think you'd have any probs this time. The other bits that look rough under the paint are from where it's not been flatted back enough.

I'm shocked by both the above to be honest!

I really hope this morning went well and it's all gonna be sorted.

Pm me and let me know the score if you want.

[Edd]

First, i can't believe i missed you again.

I'm really shocked at how many blisters you have, That's is really bad, and i hope they'll bare metal all the parts that need it (roof and pillars) They can be from solvent "pop" if primer/paint hasn't dried fully too, not just just moisture.
I do know that the car was never out side. So it never got wet.
Gutted the job came out so badly again. I'm ashamed i sent you in there now.

The sanding marks can come back though as primer stat to sink down, but as it was primed dried, sanded then re primed i really didn't think you'd have any probs this time. The other bits that look rough under the paint are from where it's not been flatted back enough.

I'm shocked by both the above to be honest!

I really hope this morning went well and it's all gonna be sorted.

Pm me and let me know the score if you want.

Is this where you have your paint work done Benn?


Going by the pics that needs starting again from bare metal IMO

Probably need a full strip down as well as your not going to want dust all over those nice flocked bits

A absolutely shocking job for £3grand I'd be fcuking fuming

[Benn]

Yes, where i used to work and get my car done. But i do all my own prep and absess over it.

Any where there are bilsters needs to be bare metaled, but im sure the bodyshop would agree on. Prob is that is something that can come up over time.
The sanding marks, they should have been seen before, if might not have been visable before.. Its hard to tell, but they do need fixing. But i believe its booked in for these probs to be sorted.

[Edd]

Surely if every panel has issues they need to paint the whole lot again?

[Benn]

True, is it every panel? I didn't think it was, hoping Criag sorted it out with the bodyshop.

[TWAG]

True, is it every panel? I didn't think it was, hoping Criag sorted it out with the bodyshop.

Yes, Unfortunately every panel has the sanding marks showing through and the blistering is spreading by the week. That's by biggest concern as two weeks ago it was only blistering on the roof.

[TWAG]

First, i can't believe i missed you again.

I'm really shocked at how many blisters you have, That's is really bad, and i hope they'll bare metal all the parts that need it (roof and pillars) They can be from solvent "pop" if primer/paint hasn't dried fully too, not just just moisture.
I do know that the car was never out side. So it never got wet.
Gutted the job came out so badly again. I'm ashamed i sent you in there now.

The sanding marks can come back though as primer stat to sink down, but as it was primed dried, sanded then re primed i really didn't think you'd have any probs this time. The other bits that look rough under the paint are from where it's not been flatted back enough.

I'm shocked by both the above to be honest!

I really hope this morning went well and it's all gonna be sorted.

Pm me and let me know the score if you want.

Lol, I did pop in your work but they said you where out on deliveries. I'm over again tomorrow if your there.

No need to be assamed mate, you wernt to know this would happen.

Kieth still believes part of the problem is down to the paint so I'm taking it over tomorrow to see the rep. He has assured me its going to get sorted and if it does then ill be happy. Just hope it doesn't take 3 months again, he seems to have a lot of work in at the moment so I am a big worried. I've

I really don't want to miss another show season.

Hopefully tomorrow we will agree on what is going to be done, I can't see any over options than to sand it all right back, its already got 3 layers of paint on it.

[dan16v]

Harsh mate, I know it's a pain but if it was me id strip the car again before it was repainted, as it's not the same when things are masked etc and all your hard work will get covered in dust etc

[Benn]

Yes, Unfortunately every panel has the sanding marks showing through and the blistering is spreading by the week. That's by biggest concern as two weeks ago it was only blistering on the roof.

Really? FFS. I can only say i'm sorry, i expected alot better than this from them.
The guy that painted it (both times) has been stacked, maybe that's why.

In my exspearance (sp?) if it's getting worse, i'd be thinking it was paint wise too. i've seen it on a few on older cars, main ones where they've been covered while they are putting them back together (i know you didn't do that)


Lol, I did pop in your work but they said you where out on deliveries. I'm over again tomorrow if your there.

No need to be assamed mate, you wernt to know this would happen.

Kieth still believes part of the problem is down to the paint so I'm taking it over tomorrow to see the rep. He has assured me its going to get sorted and if it does then ill be happy. Just hope it doesn't take 3 months again, he seems to have a lot of work in at the moment so I am a big worried. I've

I really don't want to miss another show season.

Hopefully tomorrow we will agree on what is going to be done, I can't see any over options than to sand it all right back, its already got 3 layers of paint on it.

Yeah i'm on the road this week, so missed you again
I know i wasn't to know. But i expected much better from them. That's why i recommended them.
The paint rep will be able to say what the prob is, and as far as i know ( i checked most days to see how it was going) it was never out side wet or dry day. It was always inside.

Hope i can see it tomoz and help it goes well.

[Jeff16v]

Bad luck mate, gutted for you. I'm sure everything will work out in the end. Chin up.

[lee 16v]

Solvent pop dont look like this. It would be little pin holes, solvent pop is when the top coat drys before the solvent under it can get out.
Some reasons for solvent pop.
If you have the heat on to high or the heat lap too near the panel
You dont let it dry between coats property
If you lay the paint on too heavy.

[8valve-craig]

Hope all goes well Craig. not sure how you are fixed for Truck/Trailer, but let me know if you need a hand free of charge, would be happy to help if I can.

[dan16v]

Craig where in Wiltshire are you? Will need a car moving from southampton to landford area soon for some ££

[TWAG]

Hope all goes well Craig. not sure how you are fixed for Truck/Trailer, but let me know if you need a hand free of charge, would be happy to help if I can.

Thanks Craig! I may take you up on that offer. I would prefer to strip alot of the car down before it goes back to be painted. Ill give you a call soon.

[8valve-craig]

Craig where in Wiltshire are you? Will need a car moving from southampton to landford area soon for some ££

Salisbury


Thanks Craig! I may take you up on that offer. I would prefer to strip alot of the car down before it goes back to be painted. Ill give you a call soon.

If you strip it right down you can borrow your old dolly's to move it around on as I have nearly finished with them.

[dan16v]

Just down the road then. Do you think your trailer/ truck would take an escort cosworth? Was too wide for a trailer I tried to use last time

[craig green]

Just my 2 cents, I think £3k is a lot of money for a paint job, esp considering there was no stripping & fitting, essentially a bare shell & panels. That's the best shot at painting a blank canvas surely? I recall the complications with the arches & wings, put that down to experience.
I had blistering exactly like yours on my GSi about 2-3 years after it was painted. I understood it was likely moisture, from the air lines, though I seem to remember it may have been pushed outside whilst in primer.

You have my sympathy from one Craig to another, prey it's a paint flaw & it gets corrected at no cost to yourself, hope that each individual that works on the body understands the importance of getting it flawless & lastly perhaps insist that you get to personally inspect the shell between every stage of it's recovery to be happy that nothing is covered up or able to slip through the net to ruin the end result.

Stick with it!

[Benn]

Can i just say, it wasn't just a paint job for 3k. There was alot of other work done too it.

I'm not excusing the fact or price or anything as Craig knows after we had a long chat yesterday.

Having seen the car my self, seeing all of what Craig's been talking about, i think they car will be fully repainted.

And giving Craig full credit, the car looks fantastic. So low and wide!