View Full Version : Nova Turbo progress (part 2)
Hi,
Well carrying on from Lee's thread http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?72961-Nova-Turbo-progress&highlight=
I am the proud owner of his Nova. Would have started this earlier but never got anything changed over when I was last home (waiting on gaskets!!!). Anyway am sure most of you know the car...
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/c9606ab6ef02add02d2d3673ceb581b5_zps9d8016cb.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/74ae95c227c4200bdbffc7f21b7a1d7d_zps61283dc5.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/5a786c76777fed3c9a9bc5395c2e3b96_zpsdfbcda55.jpg
So it's not really a progress thread yet.... But have a few things lined up to do to it. It doesn't actually need anything bar turbo seals but you always seem to find something to change lol
Looking forward to getting it out and about next year and actually meet some people off here...
Cheers!
Here are some of the things to go on.... Nothing fancy just change the blue hoses to black etc and a k26 turbo!
still waiting on some parts and have ordered more lol
cheers!
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/c32948216ae8eb174a396b0a8f857416_zps49418e5a.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/4704a35d6909a2646c663f73e3950f7d_zpsd6924ea2.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/712d8de8b2357f112890bf65bc7d7b45_zps5bd84439.jpg
Nice choice of parts to add on.
Hi Benn... Yeah they will do only other noticeable change I am waiting on is carbon trim for the interior.
I tried that poor boy's black hole that you mentioned.... Good stuff :thumb:
Cheers!
Defo need to sort out a meet when your about, ive wanted to see this car in the flesh for years lol
Defo need to sort out a meet when your about, ive wanted to see this car in the flesh for years lol
Yeah....there's too many nice nova's in Scotland and not enough meets! Be nice beside your one!
nova.mike
29-12-13, 04:40 PM
Lovely looking nova, its a minter!
Lovely looking nova, its a minter!
Cheers... So happy I bought it. I can't take credit for it it's all Lee's hard work, he built a very good car!
all I have done is developed a bad OCD of cleaning it so far lol
bazzap8389
29-12-13, 04:50 PM
It's a stunning car! Can't wait to see it in the flesh either give me a buzz next time your home :)
It's a stunning car! Can't wait to see it in the flesh either give me a buzz next time your home :)
Hi Baz will do next time I promise! Felt like I only just got off the plane and back on it last time...... Hurry up with more updates for the red beast! :)
cheers!
kingwick
29-12-13, 11:36 PM
Class looking
shaunboy84
29-12-13, 11:39 PM
us scot's love nova's :) :)
bazzap8389
30-12-13, 12:22 AM
Hi Baz will do next time I promise! Felt like I only just got off the plane and back on it last time...... Hurry up with more updates for the red beast! :)
cheers!
Spot on :) when you back next? Updates will come soon when I can be bothered to go see the car lol
us scot's love nova's :) :)
Nova's what? ;)
turbodrew1
31-12-13, 01:15 AM
I love this car, glad to see it's ended up in the right hands.
im after a k26 myself, where did you get it and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking.
Class looking
Thanks i am really happy with it :)
us scot's love nova's :) :)
Yeah but no-one ever see's them lol
Spot on :) when you back next? Updates will come soon when I can be bothered to go see the car lol
Not sure yet... very busy at work but hopefully Feb/March then will be starting month on/off. ready for a convoy to Billing?? ;)
I love this car, glad to see it's ended up in the right hands.
im after a k26 myself, where did you get it and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking.
Don't think Lee would have sold it to anyone who wouldn't look after it. I got mine from KRS turbo's on an exchange basis think it was around 695?. i have spoken to some people who have these and heard no complaints.... i will get contact information for you. is it you who has the smart red van?
Cheers!
Kev Turbo
20-01-14, 06:43 AM
Glad you stuck with the KKK Rob, Keeps things nice and reliable. Too many builds go down the pan once everything starts to change.
Glad you stuck with the KKK Rob, Keeps things nice and reliable. Too many builds go down the pan once everything starts to change.
Hey Kev, yeah I just wanted to keep it simple as I don't want to be going home and having to order extra bits as they probably won't be in on time before I go back to work etc...
have alot of extra goodies also waiting for me at home... Some of the stuff I probably won't even fit but gives me options :)
cheers!
Well finally home again for the first time this year!!!
So I was looking forward to fitting my new turbo etc BUT disaster struck....
got home charged the battery gave it a quick hose then took it out a blast. On my way home I had a little hiccup up with it where it spluttered a little, engine management light came on then went of and ran like normal again. Got home parked it outside came back out and it was struggling to fire! Leading to me pushing it into the garage :cry:
Got a code reading of crankshaft sensor and engine control module. So far I have....
Changed the crankshaft sensor
tried my ecu with standard & phase 2 chips
tried another ecu
Checked fuel pressure at the rail, injectors
relays
plugs
coil
all the earths and still no luck... Has anyone had the control module fault before??? It's must be something stupid like a split wire hiding somewhere!!
Anyway so haven't been able to do much with it as I want it running before I change the turbo etc so my OCD has been kicking in and I have been removing the minor swirls from the paint. A clean black car is great to look at
cheers!
Rob
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/a43bc05d7b43b79f7042c3e66454e721_zps45ad8a08.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/5cc688e44c3f199e6da5ad62735960bb_zps60eb53d2.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/38907063ce0d7b7e23127ac9014bc3ef_zpsb56f9f6d.jpg
Never heard of the ECM before.... Looks geat tho.
bazzap8389
29-06-14, 08:05 PM
I hope you get to the bottom of it soon Rob, it's looking awesome as always though.
Typical Clet nova niggles Rob I'm afraid! They'll always be something to tinker with as they never stay happy for long! Hope you get to the bottom of it soon as I know many were looking forward to viewing at billing which is only round the corner. Best of luck!
Nick.
turbodrew1
30-06-14, 07:17 PM
Thanks i am really happy with it :)
Yeah but no-one ever see's them lol
Not sure yet... very busy at work but hopefully Feb/March then will be starting month on/off. ready for a convoy to Billing?? ;)
Don't think Lee would have sold it to anyone who wouldn't look after it. I got mine from KRS turbo's on an exchange basis think it was around 695?. i have spoken to some people who have these and heard no complaints.... i will get contact information for you. is it you who has the smart red van?
Cheers!
hi mate just seen this reply, been a while, yeah it's my red van.
Southie
30-06-14, 08:32 PM
Never heard of the ECM before.... Looks geat tho.
Not sure what it means but this is what it is:
51.........Engine Control Module (ECM) - memory error (PROM)
Might mean that the ecu needs resetting to factory settings???
I hope you get to the bottom of it soon Rob, it's looking awesome as always though.
Yeah thanks again for letting me try bits from your engine... And good to finally meet you, hopefully next time I will have the nova with me lol
Typical Clet nova niggles Rob I'm afraid! They'll always be something to tinker with as they never stay happy for long! Hope you get to the bottom of it soon as I know many were looking forward to viewing at billing which is only round the corner. Best of luck!
Nick.
yeah turns out it was a split wire under the insulation that stopped it starting! But found more niggles lol .... Your new toy looks great :)
hi mate just seen this reply, been a while, yeah it's my red van.
looks really nice... Did you get a k26?
Not sure what it means but this is what it is:
51.........Engine Control Module (ECM) - memory error (PROM)
Might mean that the ecu needs resetting to factory settings???
hi Southie,
found a split wire connected it and it started... Don't know all what the fault code entails but I tried another ecu and it read the same so that split wire must have been important.
Cheers
Rob
Well finally got it to start!!!
Turned out there was a broken wire under the insulation (insulation wasnt marked or split) on the loom where it passes through the bulkhead beside the turret.
BUT...
Once it was running it was over fuelling heavily. Fuel pressure was normal and spark was good... Noticed I have a boost pipe that rubbed a hole where it caught the engine mount. Doesn't look like much in the picture but when in position it opened up...
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/c6a324461af67328f50ad3bed123c17d_zps8c37a0ae.jpg
Anyway the turbo had seen better days which I can't imagine was helping any so I started stripping it down to fit my K26, alloy radiator and my black hoses. It's now stripped down to the turbo so tomorrows task is fit the new one and see how it runs after..
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/005539ea2cbc981b7bedabccbd7175fc_zps48b722d3.jpg
i don't suppose anyone has pictures of engine bays with the roose Motorsport hoses kit for a Let? They are abit different to what I have fitted just now. Just so I can see what's go where etc.
Cheers!
Rob
bazzap8389
01-07-14, 01:12 AM
Not a problem happy to help mate, was good to meet you too! At least you got to the bottom of the starting issues, hopefully all is well with the new turbo fitted :)
Southie
01-07-14, 06:54 AM
Rob, iirc Nick J had Roose hoses on his mustard build, a link from page 71 to have a sift through:
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?88548-My-Projects-thread/page71
Kev Turbo
01-07-14, 07:45 AM
Great News Rob!
Hope that gives you the green light for billing?
You are probably already aware but make sure you chuck some fresh oil into the engine and prime the turbo before starting it up.
Cant wait for the next update!
Not a problem happy to help mate, was good to meet you too! At least you got to the bottom of the starting issues, hopefully all is well with the new turbo fitted :)
Heres hoping I've done too much cleaning and not enough driving lol
Rob, iirc Nick J had Roose hoses on his mustard build, a link from page 71 to have a sift through:
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?88548-My-Projects-thread/page71
Thanks Southie will have a look
Great News Rob!
Hope that gives you the green light for billing?
You are probably already aware but make sure you chuck some fresh oil into the engine and prime the turbo before starting it up.
Cant wait for the next update!
Hey Kev, possibly :) I wasn't supposed to be in the uk but I got loads more time off because of Ramadan so it's worked out well..
Nice to see the first thing you do once its running is to pull it apart lol
Good to see you found the problem,
Nice to see the first thing you do once its running is to pull it apart lol
Good to see you found the problem,
Haha yeah it was a case of while I have tools lying everywhere...strip it before I tidy them away lol
well I'm hoping that will solve the problem... Getting correct fuel pressure and it's sparking good so take it the 2 split pipes and the turbo will help the air side of things!
Cheers!
Rob
Not sure what it means but this is what it is:
51.........Engine Control Module (ECM) - memory error (PROM)
Might mean that the ecu needs resetting to factory settings???
Bar changing chip sets. You can't do anything else to ECUs. There are no other changeable parts/settings.
Bar changing chip sets. You can't do anything else to ECUs. There are no other changeable parts/settings.
Yeah I tried my phase 2/ standard chips and another ecu and it came up the same codes all the time... What ever the split wires were must have caused the fault. Strange least it's running again but hopefully the new hoses and turbo will help and I will clean the throttle body and chuck on a new tps that I have.
Cheers
rob
Kev Turbo
01-07-14, 01:29 PM
Maybe worth getting a refresh on the engine loom like Keith did when he built his, these old looms are pretty brittle these days. Look forward to the turbo upgrade - plenty of pictures please ;)
jafanan
01-07-14, 01:35 PM
CLETS definatley seem a full time job, i assume when the are going properly they are brilliant! Never had the pleasure of driving one yet
Hope you can make it to Billing!
Maybe worth getting a refresh on the engine loom like Keith did when he built his, these old looms are pretty brittle these days. Look forward to the turbo upgrade - plenty of pictures please ;)
yeah I probably will at some point.... I'm actually planning on stripping it over the winter and putting new bolts washers, getting beams, arms, tank etc all powder coated and get the block gearbox etc very nicely painted etc. so no matter what part of the car you look at it's nice and fresh looking.
CLETS definatley seem a full time job, i assume when the are going properly they are brilliant! Never had the pleasure of driving one yet
Hope you can make it to Billing!
Yeah the joys of motoring but I actually have enjoyed working on the car even though it can be a nightmare for working in hard to get to areas but yeah what a smile it puts on you face driving a Let specially when someone who thinks they will fly past you and you can just play with them! I upset a Aston Martin driver last time home don't think he was happy having to pull off the overtaking lane and behind me lol
cheers
rob
Suppose I better pull my finger out and do something today!
So today's job
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/e3a1c30947a9ae57522ffe0e21e414ae_zpsefa7b13a.jpg
Preys flocking is very well done :)
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/35152a9a4ac03625e2b7714e71963200_zpsdb0a4d27.jpg
and I started digging out some of the things I have bought when I was away :)
New skirts (and no that's not the car leaking ;) )
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/cf2028f803e8d5513d96caa6989e57a4_zps6dda1ed3.jpg
new bumper
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/95d7954b5e252cce1051c389680d5550_zpsafe3035e.jpg
Cheers!
Rob
Well it's alive again :)
Cheers Baz for popping through tonight and I hope you enjoyed your first run in a nova Let... Few teething issues few leaks from the radiator hose and a boost pipe blew off!! Thank god I threw a screwdriver in the car lol
seems to have cleared up the issues I was having. It's still a little rich but nothing like it was but the old turbo was goosed I couldn't even turn the wheel all the way round lol
as before though sometimes on boost and up the revs the management light comes on it hiccups light goes off then it's fine. Any ideas?
Cheers
Rob
Kev Turbo
06-07-14, 08:56 AM
Be careful with it mate until you have had it setup properly and the fuelling checked - No top speed runs! Looking forward to seeing it at Billing.
More pictures required :)
Be careful with it mate until you have had it setup properly and the fuelling checked - No top speed runs! Looking forward to seeing it at Billing.
More pictures required :)
Hi Kev yeah I was easy on it :) kept stopping just to double check everything etc, going to see if I can get it in somewhere to get it set up but I was thinking that it may miss this years billing :( just to be on the safe side. We will see
Cheers
Rob
Kev Turbo
06-07-14, 11:27 AM
A slow drive wont hurt Rob - Be criminal if you missed it! I know you can pull it out of the bag and get it tuned up before Billing.
Hi Kev yeah I was easy on it :) kept stopping just to double check everything etc, going to see if I can get it in somewhere to get it set up but I was thinking that it may miss this years billing :( just to be on the safe side. We will see
Cheers
Rob
It would be a shame not to take it... Surely theirs somewere who can double check it or failing that why not trailer it down? I'd fit mikalors clamps to all the boost pipes and that will sort them. My car has them fitted along with Andy and Keith who've both seen them previously blow off at the ring etc. Mikalors will deffo sort that problem on your spec.
Tuner should only need to check fuellings approx 3.5 bar which should see it safe. Or borrow a wideband and check yourself etc.
nick.
Kev Turbo
06-07-14, 11:44 AM
As above on the mikilors - You really can crank those bad boys up super tight!
It has to be there Rob!
scorge01
06-07-14, 12:01 PM
Good to see some progress bud :)can't wait to see her in flesh how long you home for?
bazzap8389
06-07-14, 01:37 PM
I hope you get all the we niggles sorted out Rob, thanks for taking me out in it! Loved it!! As you said good job you threw that screwdriver in at the last minute haha
A slow drive wont hurt Rob - Be criminal if you missed it! I know you can pull it out of the bag and get it tuned up before Billing.
Yeah it's just finding time this week I have to do a course this week in Aberdeen.
It would be a shame not to take it... Surely theirs somewere who can double check it or failing that why not trailer it down? I'd fit mikalors clamps to all the boost pipes and that will sort them. My car has them fitted along with Andy and Keith who've both seen them previously blow off at the ring etc. Mikalors will deffo sort that problem on your spec.
Tuner should only need to check fuellings approx 3.5 bar which should see it safe. Or borrow a wideband and check yourself etc.
nick.
I couldn't trailer it down I'm already 500+ miles from Billing. It's running at 3.2 bar but on gentle throttle it's reading around 13.8 on boost it was going down to around 10.2 on my wideband. It used to run around 15 and 12 on boost...
Good to see some progress bud :)can't wait to see her in flesh how long you home for?
Hi mate I'm home for a few more weeks yet so will pop through sometime with baz :)
I hope you get all the we niggles sorted out Rob, thanks for taking me out in it! Loved it!! As you said good job you threw that screwdriver in at the last minute haha
Hi Baz yeah niggles kind over sorted bar it running abit rich... Too be honest I just want to go and buy a scissors ramp and build it back bolt by bolt just to keep it really clean lol
andybishop
06-07-14, 09:47 PM
As said, would be criminal to not get this Billing, give us a shout if you do make it, be good to have a look round it and put a face to a name.
As said, would be criminal to not get this Billing, give us a shout if you do make it, be good to have a look round it and put a face to a name.
well would have liked to take it to billing but that will definatly be a must next year...
Can't get my head round what's wrong with it... Played around with the fuel pressure etc i does run but it starts runs well then after a period of time it won't start, plugs are soaked in fuel, throw in another set even if they are old plugs, runs fine then same again... If I was to take it to billing I would have needed like 10 sets of plugs lol
what would cause this? It's like the spark after time is not continuos but if I straight after throw in another set of plugs away it goes again!?!?
It's looking like the nova is heading for an early rebuild... So I can go all OCD on it.
also another thought was to replace the old loom with management and a loom is this a good idea? And what kind of management would people recommend?
Cheers
Rob
blue_peg_16v
12-07-14, 05:30 AM
If your going down the management route your probably best off speaking to who ever is going to set it up and ask there opinions, my mate is running dta on his zetec turbo series1 rs turbo seems decent enough, but like owt it's only as good as who maps it
Shamish82
12-07-14, 10:22 AM
Nice car, sorry to hear of your issues, hope its running right soon so you can enjoy it. good luck pal
Shaun
If your going down the management route your probably best off speaking to who ever is going to set it up and ask there opinions, my mate is running dta on his zetec turbo series1 rs turbo seems decent enough, but like owt it's only as good as who maps it
yeah just think it would be good to get rid of a tired Let loom plus I'm getting very picky with the car when it comes to the rebuild
Nice car, sorry to hear of your issues, hope its running right soon so you can enjoy it. good luck pal
Shaun
its a nova with a Let lol
but actually enjoy working on it especially when things get replaced with new parts on the way.
imjust writing the shopping list up just now then it's will be built back up with new bolts etc... There is nothing wrong with the condition of the car I'm just getting a OCD lol
Also the carbon trim came in today :)
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/ab721bf31ae15bb0e235445dabf42e9b_zps4fa1cdad.jpg
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae297/rjs89/0929eaf5d571313d24861f4c147dd13d_zps0718054b.jpg
Cheers
Rob
Breaknob
12-07-14, 05:52 PM
Is that just a carbon fibre effect vinyl or it's the real thing? Looks good whatever it is.
Is that just a carbon fibre effect vinyl or it's the real thing? Looks good whatever it is.
It's from chris off here at cmcomposites it is real carbon he does all different parts... And good quality aswell
cheers
Rob
Shamish82
12-07-14, 06:19 PM
when it comes to cars nothing wrong with a bit OCD, Hope its done soon so you can enjoy it
Breaknob
12-07-14, 06:33 PM
It's from chris off here at cmcomposites it is real carbon he does all different parts... And good quality aswell
cheers
Rob
Oh, sick a tutorial on that, or is there already one ? :D
bazzap8389
12-07-14, 10:01 PM
Pics fitted needed :)
Pics fitted needed :)
Not sure if I will fit them yet or do it when I rebuild... We haven't even hired a van and went to ocp yet ;)
scorge01
13-07-14, 02:11 AM
Not sure if I will fit them yet or do it when I rebuild... We haven't even hired a van and went to ocp yet ;)
Hired a van to go where :)
bazzap8389
13-07-14, 07:59 AM
Hired a van to go where :)
We're going to hire a can and fill it with parts from opel classic parts sometime, you're welcome to come with us!
When you starting the rebuild Rob?
scorge01
13-07-14, 08:18 AM
Whatsapp en route ;)
We're going to hire a can and fill it with parts from opel classic parts sometime, you're welcome to come with us!
When you starting the rebuild Rob?
sounds like a good road trip :) I've been looking at that website far too often.
well as for the rebuild I'm running out of ideas as to how to get it running better... So could be happening soon!
Whatsapp en route ;)
think one van will be enough for us?? ;)
Well I'm kind of running out of ideas with this... Anyone any ideas as to what it could be?
so far that's been
new leads
new plugs
new crankshaft ssensor
new throttle position sensor
lambda sensor
cleaned throttle body
sorted split boost pipe
tried different ecu, coil, sensors, plugs etc
so if I can't get it going correctly in the next day or so it's getting stripped for the rebuild... It just seems to be running way to rich.... It takes a few seconds to start then just goes rich going by my wideband therefore I'm getting a strong fuel smell, albeit rich it runs well I'm not heavy on the throttle turbo spools ok etc, it idles fine, doesn't overheat. Any ideas welcome!!
Cheers
Rob
Southie
17-07-14, 06:58 PM
Have you tried a different fuel pump?
Have you tried a different fuel pump?
Hi,
No haven't tried a new pump as it was a new pump that was fitted when I bought it, could a faulty pump cause this? Was always ok before and the fuel pressure is set to what it should be.
Cheers
Rob
Coolant temp sensor or the wiring to it. Maybe not directly related but I had a similar problem with an XE and it was the wiring for the CTS buggering things up, had to replace it back to the ECU. Anyway just another thought Rob, hope you get to the bottom of it soon.
I think I'd want it running properly before a rebuild commences? Just recently my previous car A6VXL wasn't running very well. James took it to courtenay who put it on the rollers to find fault with the fuel pump and wiring to it. These and ecu chips were changed and it went back again to show great results with no running issues. Plus it gets setup at the same time so that's what I'd do I think.
Nick.
Coolant temp sensor or the wiring to it. Maybe not directly related but I had a similar problem with an XE and it was the wiring for the CTS buggering things up, had to replace it back to the ECU. Anyway just another thought Rob, hope you get to the bottom of it soon.
Would a CTS cause it to over fuel though? Yeah me too but I'm actually looking forward to rebuilding it.... Gives me something to do when I'm at home
cheers
Rob
Would a CTS cause it to over fuel though? Yeah me too but I'm actually looking forward to rebuilding it.... Gives me something to do when I'm at home
cheers
Rob
Well on mine it was literally chucking the fuel in to the point it would cut out and not start again until it was left for quite a while, I went through all the same routine as you. Changing this that and the next thing including fuel pump but nothing helped. Took a while but after giving up on everything else and stripping the loom I found the broken wire for the CTS.
It seemed a very strange fault for what it was but that was my solution.
I think I'd want it running properly before a rebuild commences? Just recently my previous car A6VXL wasn't running very well. James took it to courtenay who put it on the rollers to find fault with the fuel pump and wiring to it. These and ecu chips were changed and it went back again to show great results with no running issues. Plus it gets setup at the same time so that's what I'd do I think.
Nick.
Yeah I would prefer it running properly aswell but I'm kind of hoping with the route I'm going with my rebuild I will get rid of the problem aswell as I'm looking at management, loom, engine rebuild etc it's just I'm running out of time now before I go back to work. Fuel relay, wiring & pump seem to be doing there job.. It's got to be a stupid little sensor or something somewhere that's why I was hoping when I rebuild it the problem will be resolved... If not It could be easier to trace as I will have replaced most of the parts that make the car run etc.
cheers
rob
Well on mine it was literally chucking the fuel in to the point it would cut out and not start again until it was left for quite a while, I went through all the same routine as you. Changing this that and the next thing including fuel pump but nothing helped. Took a while but after giving up on everything else and stripping the loom I found the broken wire for the CTS.
It seemed a very strange fault for what it was but that was my solution.
Cheers Kev will have a look its got to be something little :)
Cheers Kev will have a look its got to be something little :)
Good luck with it mate. :thumb:
Seems to be ok thought I would to the pin test again and I'm getting code 21 does anyone know what this is?
Cheers
rob
Southie
17-07-14, 10:17 PM
This may help you: CLICKYME (http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/500264-c20let-tps-fault-code-21-a.html)
Thanks Southie,
i have a new tps luckily which I could try and I will check the butterfly etc only noticed as the management light actually came on when I started it tonight
Cheers
Rob
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