Still no spark ?

[J398SUR]

Team,

How easy is it to rewire / change out a full Loom ?

Cheers

[kent14sr]

Full loom change = total interior strip (carpets, seats, dash etc), otherwise just a case of pulling the loom through after disconnecting all connectors and earths.

To rewire a loom = I doubt you could ever make one to factory standards unless you are a sparky and have all the equipment!

[J398SUR]

Nightmare .... I'm fooked

[J398SUR]

Any one recommend a good auto electrian in Aberdeen ?

[BRoadGhost]

What have you done

[marc69]

Whatengine you got and what is the problem?

I don't know a good auto electrican in aberdeen I'm afraid, always ended up doing it myself with advice from folk here.

[J398SUR]

K Reg GSI ... No spark .. Tried everything , Crank Sensor , Coil , Fuel Pump Relay , Digital Dash , Imobaliser ???

I'm fed up and don't know what else to check ?

Please advise ....

[marc69]

Is there current reaching the coil?

I have no experinece of injection engines but I would assume the first point is to see if current is reaching the coil, and yes the immobiliser will wreck everything!

If you have current going to the coil then you can move forard from that, if you don't then you have to work backwards, hope this is off a little help.

I once put a mini into an auto electricians, several hundreds of pounds later I got it back fixed, not!!

[J398SUR]

Cheers Min ... Thinking about Taylor's but I hear mixed reviews.

[marc69]

No, I had a bosch coil and dizzy that I didn't know which was faulty, they quoted a minimum of £150 to test to find out.......the first £100 was for him finding and reading the info.

I binned it and bought a new ignition system!

Have you got a volt or multi meter?

[J398SUR]

It's been in the Station Garage in Kintore for the last 10 days .. ??

[marc69]

It's been in the Station Garage in Kintore for the last 10 days .. ??
Does that mean they can't fix it?

I would have thought that by borrowing /buying a few bitss of equipment you would get advice form here for how to fix it.

I have had three Novas with awful conversions and all had massive ignition problems at first but I did get them going, one sat sat in a garage for a week before I got fed up and removed it, that initial problem was that the altenator earth had not been fitted, a few other problems did follow lol, that was before I doscovered this site and that there were other Nova wierdos lol

[J398SUR]

I'm ok with the oily bits but anything electrical I'm hopeless ... There local and I've used them in the past.

Never had an issue .. To date I've only bought a fuel pump relay and have 3 hrs service charge ... They are waiting for a diagnostic tool ?

[marc69]

I have a multimeter if you want to ahve a go! I don't know if a GSi has a proper diagnostic plug bit like modern cars, if so you can buy a proper diagnostic tool.

Once you get it going.....I have never driven a 1.6 Nova, would love to see how it goes. I have driven I think almost every other derivitive...1.0,1.2,1.2i,1.3,1.4,1.4i,xe!

[meritlover]

any garage who takes 10 days to not fault find on one of the most basic EFI engines on the planet is clearly useless and shouldn't be trusted to fit an exhaust or change brake pads.

get it out of there and buy a meter. then start back-probing (steady Stuart) around the loom starting at the FP relay and working to the ignitor supply, then if nothing go from the ecu and start belling out pins towards the cam pick up and back to the ignitor looking for 5v.

there are basics. its hard to type everything here.

does the fuel pump prime when ign on?

does the fuel pump run when cranking?

if yes to 1 and no to 2 then there is an issue with the trigger from the cam sensor.

if 1 and 2 are no then there is a power issue with FP relay and it is likely a common issue with the feed to the ignitor/coil.

there is a separate spark ECU on the GSI. but its likely something stupid like a wiring fault or bad earth.

carefully remover the immobiliser and find what it cuts. Probably the ECU power or the FP relay supply and eliminate that from the equation.

there's nothing to them. These things spark even with everything else FI wise removed. you are just lucky to have the opposite.

im not being funny, but is the cam belt broken/distributor actually turning? remove distributor cap and crank just to be sure.

xxx

[meritlover]

. They are waiting for a diagnostic tool ?


that must be some sort of code for
"we dont really know how to fault find on cars these days maybe if we let it rest for a few more days it will start to work"

a code reader wont tell you sh1t on that car and is likely to lead you down the garden path more than give you anything helpful. ask them exactly what they HAVE checked so you dont have to double dip. if its simply been an exercise for their apprentice to randomly swap out parts in blind hope, then any muppet can do that without having to pay 'mechanics rates'

[marc69]

And not to be patronising, have yu checked that the spark plugs are sparking, to tell whether it is spark or fuel that is the problem?

[therealnovaboy]

Meritlover if its K reg then it could be a C16se with no flowmeter, distributor or cam sensor .

Its not the end of the world though as these are just as simple. The fault finding methods mentioned would be the same but it has a crank sensor instead of a cam sensor.

If the engine is not starting at all then you have more chance of finding the component at fault than if it was breaking down or an intermitent open circuit.

[paddy235]

Had this problem before on a 20xe even after buying a new crank sensor. Turned out to be the cheap remake sensor. Try a known working 1

[meritlover]

Meritlover if its K reg then it could be a C16se with no flowmeter, distributor or cam sensor .



its even more simple then.

[J398SUR]

cheers guys ... unfortunalty im on holiday till next week ... I will keep you posted.

[J398SUR]

yes all checked ... no spark ?

[J398SUR]

And not to be patronising, have yu checked that the spark plugs are sparking, to tell whether it is spark or fuel that is the problem?

yes all checked no spark ?

[J398SUR]

any garage who takes 10 days to not fault find on one of the most basic EFI engines on the planet is clearly useless and shouldn't be trusted to fit an exhaust or change brake pads.

get it out of there and buy a meter. then start back-probing (steady Stuart) around the loom starting at the FP relay and working to the ignitor supply, then if nothing go from the ecu and start belling out pins towards the cam pick up and back to the ignitor looking for 5v.

there are basics. its hard to type everything here.

does the fuel pump prime when ign on?

does the fuel pump run when cranking?

if yes to 1 and no to 2 then there is an issue with the trigger from the cam sensor.

if 1 and 2 are no then there is a power issue with FP relay and it is likely a common issue with the feed to the ignitor/coil.

there is a separate spark ECU on the GSI. but its likely something stupid like a wiring fault or bad earth.

carefully remover the immobiliser and find what it cuts. Probably the ECU power or the FP relay supply and eliminate that from the equation.

there's nothing to them. These things spark even with everything else FI wise removed. you are just lucky to have the opposite.

im not being funny, but is the cam belt broken/distributor actually turning? remove distributor cap and crank just to be sure.

xxx its chipped , the only thing I have not checked is the ECU ... could this of fried ? .... this happened to my EVO

[meritlover]

Is it firing the injectors?

[Andy]

To check this in the most basic form attach wires and a sidelight bulb to the wiring for the injectors

[Andy]

that must be some sort of code for
"we dont really know how to fault find on cars these days maybe if we let it rest for a few more days it will start to work"

a code reader wont tell you sh1t on that car and is likely to lead you down the garden path more than give you anything helpful. ask them exactly what they HAVE checked so you dont have to double dip. if its simply been an exercise for their apprentice to randomly swap out parts in blind hope, then any muppet can do that without having to pay 'mechanics rates'
Exactly.
The sort of fit and hope attitude unnecessarily costs the customer£££ in un-needed parts because they cant be bothered to do very basic things.
A good garage would have a testlight, multimeter and a powerprobe on the job and diagnose in a matter of minutes.
10 days is just laughable to be quite honest.
As ml says,the diagnostic tool wont say anything.Thats just buying them time.

[meritlover]

....... Or just hold a screwdriver against one and to your ear. Listen for a tick and plug should be wet.

Using a lamp doesn't always work as the pulse width is too short when cranking. Get the garage to test all inputs and output triggers with an autoscope and tell you what it is and isn't doing.

[marc69]

if there is no spark at the plugs, then would that not be ignition then that is your issue, therefore diminishing the things to look at, after turning for a abit, removal of a plug should show whether there is fuel in it, is this the same with inj engines?

Always my first test with carb ones to tell me if it is fueling or spark.

As said previously, you can borrow my multimeter thing as in my experience using garages for older cars is a massive waste of money and a rip off!

[meritlover]

if there is no spark at the plugs, then would that not be ignition then that is your issue....

yes, but the trigger for both is the same. Knowing that the injectors and FP are responding (ie the ECU seeing) the engine is cranking is half the battle. The other half is the ign output between the ECU and the ignitor module. After all, the fire pulses to the ignitor is an ECU output just the same as an injector. its just another FET driver on the board.

if the injectors and FP are not responding its an input (ie crank trigger) that is the issue (or the ECU its self). There is no point in fault finding around a coil when the ECU might not even know the engine is turning over. Knowing how these things work properly cuts your fault finding time down to no time at all.

often ECUs are not to blame. although if this has been 'chipped' its been violated in some way and might have an issue. either way. its easy to find out if it is at fault without changing it out on a whim.

[Riggy]

Not the same engine , but he had the same prob on a XE , was driving fine and it just cut out , with no spark or fuel

As merit lover has said , i checked crank sensor for a know working one and it didn't work

Turned out in end that it was the ecu it had also been chipped , swapped out for another and it fired straight away , and is still goin 3 years later haha

[J398SUR]

That's my plan ... eBay job or fetch a breakers ?

[meritlover]

Yes?

[meritlover]

any garage who takes 10 days to not fault find on one of the most basic EFI engines on the planet is clearly useless and shouldn't be trusted to fit an exhaust or change brake pads.

get it out of there and buy a meter. then start back-probing (steady Stuart) around the loom starting at the FP relay and working to the ignitor supply, then if nothing go from the ecu and start belling out pins towards the cam pick up and back to the ignitor looking for 5v.

there are basics. its hard to type everything here.

does the fuel pump prime when ign on?

does the fuel pump run when cranking?

if yes to 1 and no to 2 then there is an issue with the trigger from the cam sensor.

if 1 and 2 are no then there is a power issue with FP relay and it is likely a common issue with the feed to the ignitor/coil.

there is a separate spark ECU on the GSI. but its likely something stupid like a wiring fault or bad earth.

carefully remover the immobiliser and find what it cuts. Probably the ECU power or the FP relay supply and eliminate that from the equation.

there's nothing to them. These things spark even with everything else FI wise removed. you are just lucky to have the opposite.

im not being funny, but is the cam belt broken/distributor actually turning? remove distributor cap and crank just to be sure.

xxx




its chipped , the only thing I have not checked is the ECU ... could this of fried ? .... this happened to my EVO

what was the outcome when all of the above was tested then?

[J398SUR]

Update tonight ... Hopefully

[bazzap8389]

Any update mate?

[meritlover]

i have been loosing a lot of sleep over this poor car. i would like to be at peace and know how this car is doing.

[J398SUR]

Yes sorry .... The ECU pooped its self , Its in for repair as its been chipped.

Everything els checked out ok ....

Hopefully back on the road before I go back to work ... Top service from Taylor's / Very helpful and the engineer working on her is ex Vaxhall

[Coo]

Glad its getting fixed...