View Full Version : Can Nova ignition work without ECU ?
A friend of mine asked me to help out with a Nova 'project'.
He bought the Nova without an engine etc .
The car is a 1992 1.4 which originally had fuel injection .
The engine he put into it is a 1.4 carb model - 14NV I think .
There is no ECU in the car either - although the wiring plugs are there .
My problem is I have been unable to get the ignition to work - and unable to get any answers from anyone either .
The distributor that came with the engine had 2 connections on the side and vacuum advance .
The wiring loom had a plug for 3 wires for the distributor and a 4 wire plug for ignition amplifier . Looking at wiring diagrams one wire from the amplifier should go to ECU - but there is no ECU .
He has been told by a few including a dealer that the carb version doesn't need an ECU.
So I'm on here hoping that someone may have come across this problem before and can offer some advice .
We got a new distributor from Powerspark - but they couldn't ( or wouldn't) offer much advice .
If I could find a peg drive distributor with points I reckon it would be one solution - did such exist ????
Tried wiring up following more 'advice' using a 7 pin amplifier but still no spark .
Having spent hours on the web and hours trying out varying 'solutions' I am hoping someone here can help :).
jimbob-mcgrew
15-07-13, 07:24 PM
the 14NV doesn't use an ECU, so your fine there.
you sound like your almost there.
the 1.4's didn't come with 'points', they run a breakerless dizzy.
a multiplug connector links the dizzy to the coil and the 7 pin amp.
I assume you've already got a +12v ignition live to feed the coil. and you might need to earth the coil to the car body too.
## 7 pin wiring ## (someone on here posted this info a little while back for another guy that made his own cable up, using tiny spade connectors)
"+" on dizzy is a black/yellow wire which runs to pin 5 on the ignition module
"-" on the dizzy is a blue/green wire which runs to pin 6 on the ignition module
pin 4 from igntion module is connected to live along with the black from the coil
pin 1 from module is connected to green along with negative from coil
pin 2 on module is connected to ground
hope some of that makes sense :thumb:
Makes a lot of sense actually - I have gone through various 'combinations' with no luck .
The only part of that which causes me a problem is knowing pos and neg on the dizzy ???
There were no wires or plug on it - so how would I know which is pos and which is negative ; doing it wrong could cause damage I presume .
And also is there a way of checking the dizzy is actually working ??
The dizzy we got new has 3 wires but no vacuum so would not suit at all I feel .
Will have a search for the 7 pin wiring you mention - found some but they used colours which were obviously of no help .
Thanks very much for reply .
jimbob-mcgrew
15-07-13, 09:18 PM
I think the 14NV is supposed to have a 2 pin dizzy ? I forget tho.
I think dizzy side, the +live is the pin that goes to the condensor thingy inside it, altho im not 100% so double check with someone else or Haynes manual.
are you ok with the coil side + and -, they should be marked, unless the plastic surrounds are snapped off.
if you get a roll of black wire and small enough spade connectors to fit the module, cut the wires to length, join everything with solder for strength and conductivity, and wrap the heads of the spade connectors in heatshrink to keep them from touching one another, you can knock up your own multi-plug loom
I run a 1.4 NV track car without ecu etc, I originally had the bosch high spark ignition which was rubbish and unreliable so I changed it for the 1.2/1.3 standard carb ignition (delco), you need a live feed and an earth, then you can wire the rev counter etc.
It ran on the track (so often nearer 8000rpm at times...oops) all last year without any problems
I have 1.4 same as yours
do you have the plug an wiring for the terminal found under the coil
if you tell me what pics you need I ll put some up to help you
Yes , the dizzy that came with the engine was a 2 pin - just I don't know how to tell pos from neg .
I have a 7 pin amplifier and a 7 pin plug (from a V6) - so the colours probably won't match up . I also presume that not all 7 pin amps are the same.
I need to know what each pin is connected to for example - rather than the colour of the wire . Probably asking for a lot but can't see any other way to hook it up properly .
And also is there any way of checking the dizzy actually works ??????
As the car was originally fuel injection much of the wiring is different it appears .
I recently discovered that these engines are used in track cars ( near 8000 rpm - incredible :thumb:) and buggies without ECU's ; but haven't been able to contact anyone doing this till now :).
Any help greatly appreciated - this is , as they say , now doing my head in ; if only I'd found this forum weeks ago . Am also concerned that some of the connections I was advised to make earlier could have damaged components :(
Try finding a good second hand nv ignition wiring set up. Ie coil/amp/wiring. You'll only need 2 wires to plumb the whole lot in.
Try finding a good second hand nv ignition wiring set up. Ie coil/amp/wiring. You'll only need 2 wires to plumb the whole lot in.
Or the older delco system I mentioned, it fits the cam too and does the job. I think it cost me £30 or something, that was coil/dizzy and module, plug in and play lol
Thanks for replies so far - seems it should be 'doable' but one of my problems is there are no cars of that age in any breakers yards around here.They just don't have any .
And even though the owner is a member of an Opel club he hasn't been able to get any solid information either.
The Mk 2 Cavalier 1.6 was mentioned as a source of parts - but no chance of coming across one of these .
So it more or less now depends on what I can find out from guys like yourselves who run those engines without an ECU.
I have seen my type of question on other forums ( how do you connect up amplifier and dizzy) - but never any answers .
Owner had a Hayne's manual - but not much help ; main problem was the car originally being fuel injection .
Well when I converted mine to the delco system, I advertised here for a system, bought it, made sure I had advice on how to fit it (it was seriously easy) and drove the car!
You will need a ignition timing gun or an incredibly good ear to set the ignition timing.
If you have never done ignition stuff before this will probably be a bit of a project but it is do..able
Would anyone be able to answer this please?
to get power to the ignition, you need to go back to the ign switch & find the ign +ve wire. this is the one that is +ve when the ign is on & also when cranking.. then use this to power the ign. forget the ECU. then reuse the starting, alternator & sensor wiring that came with the car.
meritlover
18-09-13, 10:22 PM
Would anyone be able to answer this please?
yes, i agree with Marc. it is incredibly easy to wire electronic ignition.
Ok thanks! So the ecu doesn't control the ignition in anyway? My car is an SRI so its quite a complex system, its the dizzy type with no wires coming off dizzy and has a CPS..
As I said, get a complete ignition system (dizzy and coil) from any ohc carb engine (1.2/1.3/1.4NV) and it will work, you just need the ignition live which should be a black, or find a live ignition wire. Set up the ignition timing and it should go.
Thanks I have a coil and dizzy setup from a 1.4 carb model sitting so I will wire that up. Was just wondering if the Ecu on the SRI had anything to do with spark, like using the MAP and crank sensor to calculate spark timings etc... Cheers.
meritlover
18-09-13, 10:35 PM
yes the ECU is needed for the ign.
the distributor is the cam trigger for the ECU which in turn 'fires' the ignitor with a 5v sq wave to make a spark
you need to wire the carby distributor and ignitor/coil
can't he just wire the standard coil to the ignition and forget the ecu? My 1.4 was originally a 1.2i
My car has no wires coming off the dizzy though, which means the crank sensor is the trigger so im guessing the ecu has to deal with that. Theres too many types of dizzys, I can't figure out what type I need to just wire up as a standalone system. Mine is the orange cap with no wires. Iv also seen the other kind of dizzy, black cap with a plug coming out of it, then there is the vacuum type. Too many to decide :(
My car has no wires coming off the dizzy though, which means the crank sensor is the trigger so im guessing the ecu has to deal with that. Theres too many types of dizzys, I can't figure out what type I need to just wire up as a standalone system. Mine is the orange cap with no wires. Iv also seen the other kind of dizzy, black cap with a plug coming out of it, then there is the vacuum type. Too many to decide :(
It's the big black cap dizzy and you have to use the matching coil. When you are buying it, make sure the vacuum advance works (basically suck it to see if it is burst). I have bought three from folk who say they work and they were burst. The car will still run without the vacuum but for smoother running at low end acceleration it helps.
here is a pic which shows the dizzy etc.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo394.jpg
Perfect, thanks a lot! :)
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp86/NovaBoi92/321854_10150273639585668_613725667_8192624_2141219 019_o.jpg
Is the 2 pin setup better as the 3 pin dizzy? I understand they use different coils and ign modules but I can get a hold of both systems. Just wondering which is best.
meritlover
19-09-13, 07:33 AM
those three pins are the optical trigger for the ECU.
I know thats what its for, well not the ecu. I don't think the ecu is needed for the 3 pin setup. Was just wondering which one to go for.
meritlover
19-09-13, 10:22 AM
I know thats what its for, well not the ecu. I don't think the ecu is needed for the 3 pin setup. Was just wondering which one to go for.
obviously you dont, the optical sensor doesnt work with the carb coil and ignitor. it needs the ECU power.
The carb distributor has a 4 pin magnetic reluctor and integral ignitor to trigger the coil. As Marc says, you need a complete carby distributor and coil - end of.
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp86/NovaBoi92/321854_10150273639585668_613725667_8192624_2141219 019_o.jpg
Is the 2 pin setup better as the 3 pin dizzy? I understand they use different coils and ign modules but I can get a hold of both systems. Just wondering which is best.
I think that's an ecu dizzy
meritlover
19-09-13, 04:49 PM
it is. that was my point. it cannot work with the carb ignitor/coil assembly.
use the correct distributor.
it is. that was my point. it cannot work with the carb ignitor/coil assembly.
use the correct distributor.
End of story lol!
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