View Full Version : Just how fast is a xe nova ??
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:11 PM
I am currently building mine and having never driven or even been in one (including a corsa) what should I be expecting from 160-170 horse and roughly 900 kg of rust hahah
Has anyone got any good stories ??
Cheers guys :)
People who have had a few reckon they vary, but it depends what you're used to. I wasn't overly impressed with mine, it was quite a bit slower than my GT4 though.
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:19 PM
Well my daily is a zafira gsi on coilovers hahahah >.<
Southie
31-05-13, 10:19 PM
Power to weight is what it's all about, an XE in a Nova is still quick these days but most tdi Fabias will kick your ****.
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:23 PM
I will have too learn to pick my fights then hahaha
Where have you got 160bhp from?
Southie
31-05-13, 10:32 PM
Where have you got 160bhp from?
Back in the day I used to smoke my cigs in that same pub and play pool I'm sure.
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:33 PM
I've rebuilt the engine got some Kent cams, sbd manifold, powerflow three inch exhaust system and chipped ecu so just roughly guessing 160 tbh
Has anyone got any good stories ??
i have a fair few stories from when i had my XE, most are incriminating so i best not post them lol
managed to collect 14 points in the time i had it on the road as well lol
The power and weight ratio is important but, when I got my xe it wheelspun so wasn't terribly fast. Lots of people suggested the common sense thing of using the throttle carefully.......
With some other advice on springing/camber/castor angles and tyres etc, you can now floor it in 2nd gear upwards with no wheel spin.
What I mean is lots of power is good if the car handles it and can get it on the road, if it is just a loud wheelspinner, then not as fast as it sounds/looks!
I am quite impressed with the xe although it does make me a little aggressive when everyone is in my way lol
do you like cornering ?
a fetish for hedges or ditches ?
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:40 PM
I like corners hahahah
Got some coilovers tk autosports, cavalier brakes and poly bushes just need some strut braces now :)
I like corners
you wont with a XE in it, best remove it now lol
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:44 PM
Hahahhaahha it will have to do !! will have a let with 350-400 (my dream :p) when I have the money so will only get worse hahahah
womble sri
31-05-13, 10:45 PM
My first xe was ****e at handling but used to smoke most cars, I had it reading 157mph on a digi dash which was probably incorrect but was obliterating a BMW 335i, my LET however would beat mostly anything with 4 wheels and have a good go at anything about 600cc with two wheels. The next nova to come who knows ;)
What to expect though is uncontrollable power until you master it and then you will get bored and wish you had started with a LET,
Southie
31-05-13, 10:49 PM
you wont with a XE in it, best remove it now lol
Small block XE's are okay though lol
My first xe was ****e at handling but used to smoke most cars, I had it reading 157mph on a digi dash which was probably incorrect but was obliterating a BMW 335i, my LET however would beat mostly anything with 4 wheels and have a good go at anything about 600cc with two wheels. The next nova to come who knows ;)
What to expect though is uncontrollable power until you master it and then you will get bored and wish you had started with a LET,
Obliterating a 335?? Not likely! They are pretty potent . Limiter on an f20 is 134-140 Ish depending on wheel size, limiter etc. a valver nova with decent tyres and suspension is a hoot. Quick enough to get you into trouble and to keep up with modern 'hot' hatches
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 10:50 PM
I already want one because my uncles got a 280 bhp let Astra and I love the sound never been in :(
What's this ibtl??
you wont with a XE in it, best remove it now lol
True, they feel heavy and not as agile as small block but, again wiith some work, they can handle pretty much as well, just feels different.
Obliterating a 335?? Not likely!
More so the 5/335 diesel's, hooligan machine they are!
Pistol Pete
31-05-13, 11:01 PM
How fast? Not lightening fast, but quick enough. I embarressed a civic type r driver last week. He shot away from the lights. I CBA with it. Next set i thought sod it lol
do you like cornering ?
a fetish for hedges or ditches ?
You must be a **** driver Edd ;):p:thumb: .....you saw me at combe. Went fine. IMO the old XE's dont handle is down to driver and suspension setup.
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 11:13 PM
Good to know about type R's ;):p and suspension set up should be fine :)
If I'm honest I absolutely loved my XE, I just much prefer the handling of a smallblock 8v
Pistol Pete
31-05-13, 11:25 PM
Good to know about type R's ;):p and suspension set up should be fine :)
Audi TT 225 quattro too. lol my mate (whos car it was) was surprised! As was i!
turbojolt
31-05-13, 11:27 PM
join the club and post up in you regional section, I'm sure someone will be willing to show you how quick they are :)
Marcusgeorge
31-05-13, 11:41 PM
I couldn't do that I make a nervous passenger when my misses drives the zafira hahahhaahha
chrisd1986
01-06-13, 02:06 AM
Ive been out in a few and i was pinned to the seat but again the weight upfront will take some getting use to if you like cornering hence why im fitting a 1.6 16v in mine. If you want a proper induction roar you should carb it they sound awsome when fully opened up
Just how fast are they?
Really,0-60 in 7 if good conditions and top out on an f20 at 137mph
Not 190 like people will have you think.
Quick motors in novas really.
Your exhaust is a waste of metal really though.3inch is ridiculous
Marcusgeorge
01-06-13, 07:29 AM
What's the top out on a f18??
And it's just what come on the car might swap the back box though depending on how loud it is when I get it going hahah
The backbox isnt the problem, the bore size of the pipe is to big to build up and backpressure, 2 1/4" is probably better. Also i would reccomment swapping the front springs to a higher poundage, ie 350lbs. Will improve the handling massively and there pretty cheap from places like rally design
Marcusgeorge
01-06-13, 07:50 AM
alright I will have a look cheers dude :)
What rate and etc would I be looking at though ??
Well i run 350lbs 9" length i think, its a bit trial and error, but most coilovers will be around the 200/250lbs which for a standard 1200 isnt really an issue. A bit of trial and error i guess to see how you like the car to feel
My stripped out XE Nova ran one of the best 1/4 mile times on here but my full fat Civic Type R still ran a quicker time than it. That's in a straight line though, I won't even bother mentioning the difference when it comes to handling.
Had about 5 XE Nova's over the years and really don't agree with hype. Needs a LET to make it a quick car.
I like corners hahahah
Got some coilovers tk autosports
Total contradiction there...
scott.parker
01-06-13, 08:49 AM
XE on throttle boddies is what I use to have 185bhp 160flb? I think..
F20 box lsd, use to do 1/4 mile in 13.4@102mph iirc and would go upto 143mph if you had the balls.. But I never pushed it, I did do that speed with the same setup in my old Gsi though as it was less Stiff so didn't want to skip about.
Imo there a good fast conversion that will batter a lot of '' quick'' modern cars.
Marcusgeorge
01-06-13, 09:01 AM
Total contradiction there...
My friend has some on his corsa and said they are good for the money and a cheap set come up on here so I though why not.
I would much prefere the opinion of some one who has them opposed to some Internet warrior
My friend has some on his corsa and said they are good for the money and a cheap set come up on here so I though why not.
I would much prefere the opinion of some one who has them opposed to some Internet warrior
Is your friend with them fitted either a racing driver or automotive engineer ? Yes of course I'm just a keyboard warrior lol
Marcusgeorge
01-06-13, 09:19 AM
I arnt getting into an argument over the Internet this isn't Facebook lol
I am getting some avo coilovers anyway when it's on the road instead of a ramp hugging money pit hahah
Having tried both, i'd go gaz instead of avo personally
Big piston bilstens at aren't coil overs... Huge huge win
Marcusgeorge
01-06-13, 09:37 AM
I was going to put gas gold ones on and I brought a set but they were stolen from the unit I was doing the car in along with pretty much everything else hence the tk autosport ones :(
And I want some coil overs so I can get the stance right :)
The best thing about an xe nova over a new civic type r ot corsa vxr etc is that the nova feels a lot faster despite being roughly the same speed
OP.... anyone who puts a thread up like this will get a catheter fitted.(it takes the pi$$ out of you)
an xe nova is all about fun. plenty of grandad wagons (honda bmw audi etc) will waste it in out & out performance, but it is simply a hoot to drive, which is the most important thing.
Southie
01-06-13, 08:42 PM
The other thing about an XE nova is that most people nowadays will expect there to be one under the bonnet ;)
womble sri
01-06-13, 08:43 PM
Obliterating a 335?? Not likely! They are pretty potent . Limiter on an f20 is 134-140 Ish depending on wheel size, limiter etc. a valver nova with decent tyres and suspension is a hoot. Quick enough to get you into trouble and to keep up with modern 'hot' hatches
It was a few years ago so might not of been the latest model. I was driving down a private road and a couple of Asians pulled next to me at about 90 and floored it, I planted it in 5th and smoked them, when I let off they could not believe it and then I did it again. Car was fast had a few mods nothing special used to rev off the dash but I agree I doubt it was an accurate reading of top speed. Could of been a diesel think it was around 2007
admitting guilt of motoring offences on the internet is not clever
Southie
01-06-13, 08:52 PM
He's talking in kph Mike, don't be nasty :p
admitting guilt of motoring offences on the internet is not clever
Ah yes police are always looking on rot box forums for storries of people speeding years ago
Do you think the CPS would peruse 3 points for someone posting they went 95mph ? lol
BRoadGhost
01-06-13, 09:20 PM
TBH when I went from a 90 bhp tuned 1389cc 8v to a carbed XE, it felt quite disappointing.
In retrospect it's probably only because the 1.4 was perfectly tuned with a smooth peaky power curve last time I drove it and the first xe drive was when it wasn't perfectly balanced; standard cams, lower revving, cumbersome feeling with the additional weight and torque.
Since then the XE's had similar development internally with more valve lift, carb, head & inlet flow refinement... But beyond this the drastic chassis revisions to tip the additional weight back nullifies the gain and I'd like to say balance is restored. It's a world away from what it was when I first drove it with that engine in it and even further from the 1400 of the past; they may as well be three different cars.
I guess what I'm saying is if you do choose to develop any engine it'll be a joy to drive. Just understand a properly tuned XE won't make for a slow car.
Xe Nova's aren't slow. For what you can build them for they are proper fun and there isn't much on the road that makes them look slow. Your average hatchback car won't do 0-60 in 7 secs.
What's the top out on a f18??
Around 130.
TBH when I went from a 90 bhp tuned 1389cc 8v to a carbed XE, it felt quite disappointing.
In retrospect it's probably only because the 1.4 was perfectly tuned with a smooth peaky power curve last time I drove it and the first xe drive was when it wasn't perfectly balanced; standard cams, lower revving, cumbersome feeling with the additional weight and torque.
Since then the XE's had similar development internally with more valve lift, carb, head & inlet flow refinement... But beyond this the drastic chassis revisions to tip the additional weight back nullifies the gain and I'd like to say balance is restored. It's a world away from what it was when I first drove it with that engine in it and even further from the 1400 of the past; they may as well be three different cars.
I guess what I'm saying is if you do choose to develop any engine it'll be a joy to drive. Just understand a properly tuned XE won't make for a slow car.
Please post up some pics of your car!!
Mine was happily keeping up with my pals 286bhp astra mk4 gsi and its not the quickest XE Nova I've owned either
BRoadGhost
01-06-13, 10:32 PM
One from last year Jake
http://sadpanda.us/images/1637677-HV5FIEA.jpg
Ah yes police are always looking on rot box forums for storries of people speeding years ago
Do you think the CPS would peruse 3 points for someone posting they went 95mph ? lol
I once ran over a homeless bloke in my car and dumped the body on a golf course.
Novasport
01-06-13, 10:50 PM
Just a little irritation...
An is used before all words beginning with a vowel sound. The word having the vowel sound may begin with a vowel or with a silent h as in an honor. Similarly, a word may start with a vowel, but not have a vowel sound.
Examples :
There is an elephant.
He arrived in an ambulance
Just how fast is an XE Nova?
Just a little irritation...
Glad it weren't just me lol
Just a little irritation...
This place is full of clampets. It's a waste of time trying to correct them.
They're/their/there... :/
Glad it weren't just me lol
Yorkshire twang is also an unwelcome irritation. lol
hahahaha lol lol @ clampets lol
Drove an 20XE Nova not long ago, was the first one I'd ever been in let alone drove and I've got to say I was left disappointed, it was on an empty industrial estate with enough room to get it in 3rd. It was fairly quick but I was expecting a lot more from what I've read/heard.
V6 is the way forward, had the pleasure of driving Jed Dixon's V6 Corsa B after we had been working on it and you cant change gear quick enough lol the noise too!
Drove an 20XE Nova not long ago, was the first one I'd ever been in let alone drove and I've got to say I was left disappointed, it was on an empty industrial estate with enough room to get it in 3rd. It was fairly quick but I was expecting a lot more from what I've read/heard.
V6 is the way forward, had the pleasure of driving Jed Dixon's V6 Corsa B after we had been working on it and you cant change gear quick enough lol the noise too!
lol lol
I have driven one before. Was fairly quick, but not what some on here make them out to be - especially in modern traffic.
It's not 1998 any more. lol
cut the back off...it'll go faster :p
Xe Nova's aren't slow. For what you can build them for they are proper fun and there isn't much on the road that makes them look slow. Your average hatchback car won't do 0-60 in 7 secs.
Aside from the silly ved lark, a Clio 1*2 wipes the floor with an xe'd nova/corsa in every way.
Reasonable spec, fast ish, cheap as chips to buy, fairly comfortable, lots safer and so on.
That said a properly sorted nova is a giggle.
blue_peg_16v
01-06-13, 11:19 PM
Need a let conversation over lol
Aside from the silly ved lark, a Clio 1*2 wipes the floor with an xe'd nova/corsa in every way.
Reasonable spec, fast ish, cheap as chips to buy, fairly comfortable, lots safer and so on.
That said a properly sorted nova is a giggle.
its not as much fun buying something ready built from the factory.
its not as much fun buying something ready built from the factory.
Saves having to dodge IVA tests. ;) lol
its not as much fun buying something ready built from the factory.
There is that, but there comes a point when pissing in the wind isn't actually that fun
Novasport
01-06-13, 11:32 PM
The Cl!t has an alloy block doesn't it? A massive weight saving which would make a small car with a big engine handle like a small engined hatch.
You could get an alloy C20XE block couldn't you? Very rare and expensive though.
xe Novas vary, dependant on engine and chassis/suspension conversions. Some are fairly fast and some aren't. What I want to see is someone making a 1.0 ohv Nova fast, and how they do it, (cutting all the car off or putting in an fast engine doesn't count).
Or even better, make the lethargic lifeless 1.2i fast........
No replacement for displacement. lol
The Cl!t has an alloy block doesn't it? A massive weight saving which would make a small car with a big engine handle like a small engined hatch.
You could get an alloy C20XE block couldn't you? Very rare and expensive though.
No idea what the French tat had in it lol it just went well and handled pretty well for an off the shelf toy.
Yep the £4k Ali xe block is available but obv not worth it. I've driven a few xe's that handled well or even properly but they are rare
TBH when I went from a 90 bhp tuned 1389cc 8v to a carbed XE, it felt quite disappointing.
In retrospect it's probably only because the 1.4 was perfectly tuned with a smooth peaky power curve last time I drove it and the first xe drive was when it wasn't perfectly balanced; standard cams, lower revving, cumbersome feeling with the additional weight and torque.
Since then the XE's had similar development internally with more valve lift, carb, head & inlet flow refinement... But beyond this the drastic chassis revisions to tip the additional weight back nullifies the gain and I'd like to say balance is restored. It's a world away from what it was when I first drove it with that engine in it and even further from the 1400 of the past; they may as well be three different cars.
I guess what I'm saying is if you do choose to develop any engine it'll be a joy to drive. Just understand a properly tuned XE won't make for a slow car.
True point, also bearing in mind the 1.4 (I have a tuned one also) seems like more fun as it is light and agile, and to get acceleration you really have to keep to the redline all the time but it's fun!
Once the xe suspension etc is set up it is faster and easier to shift with the masses of torque compared to a 1.4, but I am not sure which car is more fun.......
Someone here said you need 350lb front springs, agreed, I had mine on 250s at first, useless bec ause of the wieght, now on 7" 325lbs (didn't go as ar as 350a as it's a road car sometimes too) , makes a big difference with shockers etc.
Marcusgeorge
02-06-13, 12:14 AM
Well for the suspension I did have some gaz gold coilovers and front and rear strut braces still some one broke into my unit and pinched most of the bits :( so now I have to make do till I can afford to buy more :/
I was going to get the rose joint kits for the front end but I don't know anyone who has them and I think they might be a bit to harsh for a road car ??
BRoadGhost
02-06-13, 07:52 AM
I think the more bushes you can replace with spherical bearings the better, even on a road car.
The trade off being (aside from cost) it'll expose the next weakness in suspension; be it stroke, damping or spring rate (which is the most critical element). Past this, it'll then expose the next weakest part which will be the body. I'm cracking a stitch welded & caged shell driving it on tarmac, but then if you're getting airborne occasionally expect to have to develop some key areas even further.
Suppose that's part of the fun, seeing what's not up to the job next.
Just how fast is a xe nova??
Not as fast as a V6 ;)
Marcusgeorge
02-06-13, 09:22 AM
Oh dear cracking the body is not what I want to be doing hahah I think I will stick to poly bushes and just rose joint the track rods.
Aside from the silly ved lark, a Clio 1*2 wipes the floor with an xe'd nova/corsa in every way.
Reasonable spec, fast ish, cheap as chips to buy, fairly comfortable, lots safer and so on.
That said a properly sorted nova is a giggle.
I was waiting for the Clio sport to come up lol.
Agree entirely, if I wanted a decent track toy tomorrow I'd be getting a Clio. Get them for a grand in rough condition that would laugh at a nova even in standard form.
Ah yes police are always looking on rot box forums for storries of people speeding years ago
Do you think the CPS would peruse 3 points for someone posting they went 95mph ? lol
at what point did i say the police were looking on here????
i was thinking more of what it looks like to VBOA people, who i'm sure come on here regularly... and also the small matter of spending the last god knows how long trying to get rid of the bad image nova owners had
Simply, fast enough to lose your licence.
turbojolt
02-06-13, 05:50 PM
Simply, fast enough to lose your licence.
you could loose your licence in a 1ltr nova......if you drink enough first lol
BRoadGhost
02-06-13, 09:32 PM
Seeing as this was a thread about XE not LET, let's see how many 320HP LET's do an 11 second 1/4 mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMsmZwXQK8
Marcusgeorge
02-06-13, 09:38 PM
^^ that must have cost some serious £$€£$ !! :O
blue_peg_16v
02-06-13, 10:35 PM
A 320bhp let in that shell would be quicker due to the torque
I think they feel rapid in 1st/2nd but I think that's mainly because it's torque steering. My VX220 ran a 14.2 1/4 which is the same as a very good XE Nova, but it feels slower lol!
You could lose your licence on a tomos 50.lets not get carried away now.
I think they feel rapid in 1st/2nd but I think that's mainly because it's torque steering. My VX220 ran a 14.2 1/4 which is the same as a very good XE Nova, but it feels slower lol!
plus the VX is totally and utterly crap at 1/4 miles lol Even the silly silly powered german one isnt 'that' fast in reality.
GRUNT 16V
03-06-13, 10:31 AM
Its not how fast it is its how big your balls are !
BRoadGhost
03-06-13, 12:07 PM
Don't think so Peg; the guy's still scrabbling around in third on slicks, it only hooks up in forth right as the video cuts off.
There is that, but there comes a point when pissing in the wind isn't actually that fun
i just checked 182 prices...im not pissing into the wind just yet :p
i just checked 182 prices...im not pissing into the wind just yet :p
Check 172s lol
Looks to be about £3k for a 182...
Nova shell, £500-1000
Xe, rebuilt and tb's, £500-1500
Decent suspension and bits £1000-1500
Brakes, wheels, tyres and so on, easily another £500-1000
I'm sure folks will claim it can all be done on the cheap but in many cases it won't be much cop in a direct comparison to something 20-25 years newer lol
but a clio will just fall to bits lol
few mates have had them, nice package, but like everything french utter crap quality of components
blue_peg_16v
03-06-13, 10:02 PM
but a clio will just fall to bits lol
few mates have had them, nice package, but like everything french utter crap quality of components
Just like 80s vauxhalls then should feel right at home
no much much much worse from what Ive seen with 3 mates buying them
But edd, there is no car or anything on the planet you don't hate so its irrelevant what you think.
i like and would own many types of cars thank you nazi boss :)
but french cars are utter crap, fall to bits, shoddy electrics etc, surely your not disagreeing with that ? common knowledge i would think, plus i did actually say they were a good package
fcuking hate Ford tat tho lol
i like and would own many types of cars thank you nazi boss :)
but french cars are utter crap, fall to bits, shoddy electrics etc, surely your not disagreeing with that ? common knowledge i would think, plus i did actually say they were a good packagel
No different to most 80's and 90's cars though... I agree French cars aren't great long term ideas but for an off the shelf package its hard to beat for the cost involved. I'm sure there is a air bit of jap stuff that would be as good too.
A nova with an xe in it simply isn't the be all and end all in terms of semi cheap speed.
womble sri
03-06-13, 10:41 PM
Nearly everyone I know to have ever owned a Clio from the 172/182 era regardless of spec has had electrical problems of some sort whether its immobiliser etc
turbojolt
03-06-13, 10:45 PM
who is buying and messing about with a 'Vauxhall nova' to sit about worrying about how much it costs?
i have to admit that my experience of clios is mixed...
n reg diesel... ran forever, eventually got traded in scrappage scheme
w reg 1.2..... all the electrics went tats oop when the car was simply driving down a town road on a warm dry day.
1.2 rn... unknown reg.. simply going on what was left on the road when the pissed up ar$ehole hit my parked pickup one night
10 reg clio 1.5 td... apart from people crashing it into things... the only french trouble was spending several hours changing a light bulb... having it back from service caused some grief.. boost was all over the place &it was leaking water from somewhere... eventually found out the mechanic had pulled a turbo pipe off to change a filter, which i considered unneccesary.. & oval-ed a water pipe so the factory spring clip wouldn't fit... so 1/2 hr swearing & 2 jubilee clips later it was sorted....
who is buying and messing about with a 'Vauxhall nova' to sit about worrying about how much it costs?
i spent lots of time trying to afford my nova.
turbojolt
04-06-13, 12:10 AM
i spent lots of time trying to afford my nova.
who hasn't?.....................lol
but if your that worried £-to-speed/power, you really need to look away from not only 'novas'! but I would also suggest fooking off Vauxhalls all together!
You could build a basic v6 corsa for cheap speed, making it go round corners would be the costly thing. lol
Corsa, c25xe, f20 with second hand lsd, big block shafts, 256 brakes, billys and the some 400lb springs.
Do able for around 1500 if you took your time sourcing parts.
I'm sure there is a air bit of jap stuff that would be as good too.
I hear Colt CZTs are awesome lol
clio isnt a good comparison i dont think, cheap 172s are mostly ****ed in my experience and 182s are more expensive. clio electrics are ****e and parts are expensive aswell. 106gti is more like an xe nova i think, but then they are made of cheese and absolutely everything breaks on them. i still like the french cars but i'd say for cheap speed an xe is hard to beat when you factor in initial cost and then reliabilty aswell. handling will never be as good as the french hatches though.
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/Bazil_2468/random3/775064CB-3290-45F0-923E-D0B23648EDE8-4803-00000733DD07748E_zps209d8323.jpg
nova_niek
05-06-13, 07:07 PM
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/bazil_2468/random3/775064cb-3290-45f0-923e-d0b23648ede8-4803-00000733dd07748e_zps209d8323.jpg
lol lol lol
nova_niek
05-06-13, 07:09 PM
Baby XE (excuse the crap pic)
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/nova_niek/nova/pp-22-kr/Drenthevolgas.jpg (http://s537.photobucket.com/user/nova_niek/media/nova/pp-22-kr/Drenthevolgas.jpg.html)
BRoadGhost
06-06-13, 10:44 AM
I'm assuming your pregnant wife reached the hospital in time ;)
who hasn't?.....................lol
but if your that worried £-to-speed/power, you really need to look away from not only 'novas'! but I would also suggest fooking off Vauxhalls all together!
Do you think Vauxhall prices are expensive? lol
Yes, messing around and 'building' a car is never cost effective, but a used 20XE etc and a Nova/Corsa are about as cheap as it gets.
I'm out in mine today and I'm pretty happy with the speed of it, even more so since I put the bilstein big piston shocks and 350lb springs its handling superb
imo they are fairly quick even by today's standards, they will see of most normal road cars still..
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