x16xe running issues

[Curtoise]

:thumb:any help will be appreciated greatly

i am running it on a x14xe ecu as apparently this works fine?

it rev limits a 5000rpm and is super flat through the gears and pops and bangs on lift off.


any ideas?

edit heres a video of it

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/th_VIDEO0016_zps91d1c6a0.jpg (http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/VIDEO0016_zps91d1c6a0.mp4)

[meritlover]

crank pulley has come slack and the woodruf key has slipped on the crank pulley.

[chrisd1986]

sounds about right, my corsa b done this

[meritlover]

it could be a good load of things causing the same fault, but that is the one that goes un noticed and causes heaps of grief. might as well check it first. the fact that you have changed the reluctor wheel suggests youve interfered with the crank bolt already.

why do you mention the reluctor wheel and map sensor? has this just started since you fitted these items?

[Curtoise]

it is a fresh engine change. i only got it running today after getting a ecu. apparently its a early ecu.

the crank pulley key is fine i just checked it.

i have read abit about the knock sensor wiring is different from the late to early type wiring looms?!

[meritlover]

the crank pulley key is fine i just checked it.


what did you check?

[Curtoise]

to see if the key is still in the correct place on the bottom pulley

[Curtoise]

and also is there anywhere for the lambda sensor to plug in?

[chrisd1986]

there should be some were to plug it in, have you tryed flashing the fault codes?

[Southie]

I wouldn't have thought the ecu would be setup fueling wise to run correctly tbh.

[Curtoise]

i have tried connecting up the eml light to a bulb but got no flashes!
i have nowhere on the x16xe loom to plug a lambda sensor in.

right one of my friends said it is a cam sensor. because if you disconnect the cam sensor when the car is running the engine will continue to run.

but if you disconnect the crank sensor when the car is running it dies, but should run off the cam sensor ?

[meritlover]

right one of my friends said it is a cam sensor. because if you disconnect the cam sensor when the car is running the engine will continue to run.

but if you disconnect the crank sensor when the car is running it dies, but should run off the cam sensor ?

its a possibility. cam sensor is used as a sync pulse so i knows when no1 is at TDC on the intake stroke. like i said it could be lots of things. what you have described is right enough, it needs the crank sensor to run.

failure of cam sensor would probably retard the timing and go to batch fire of injectors which would give similar symptoms.

[Curtoise]

its running terribly, i heard that when the crank sensor is diconnected it can use the cam sensor to keep running.

can someone double check this for me please, this is from the 9 pin multi plug. to flash to codes i need a bulb connected to the blue/brown wire which it is. and then the other side of the bulb obviously earthed.

now the brown/yellow wire needs to be earthed to flash the codes out. which it is.

but the bulb doesn't flash

im going to go through a process of elimination but am i right in thinking the possibilities could be.....

Camshaft sensor
bottom pulley
knock sensor

thanks for your help

[meritlover]

its running terribly, i heard that when the crank sensor is diconnected it can use the cam sensor to keep running.

false




but the bulb doesn't flash



it may not, codes dont often tell you much. theyre only really useful to let you know the sensor is missing altogether or shorted out. somtimes sync errors are reported as a code as the ECU expects to see a sync pulse with every 2nd TDC pulse

im going to go through a process of elimination but am i right in thinking the possibilities could be.....

Camshaft sensor
bottom pulley
knock sensor

thanks for your help[/QUOTE]
a faulty knock sensor would default to ECU to retarded timing and probably increase fueling. could be any one or more of the above 3 sensors causing a problem.

[Curtoise]

right i think i have eliminated the cam sensor, just unplugged it and went up the road and good god it was super sluggish. so it must be working to make a difference when its plugged in.

having done some research i think its the knock sensor.
apparently there are 2 types one for early engines and one for later engines the later ones have 2 wires coming out of them and the early ones have one wire.... and mine is running a later knock sensor with a early ecu!

so i went up the road with the knock sensor unplugged and it made no difference at all in how it ran, which nearly confirms my thoughts.

now can anyone tell me how i can wire in a single wire knock sensor the ecu will recognise ?

thanks

[Curtoise]

this is the twin wire sensor, now i just need to find out what the other ones look like

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-corsa-b-sport-X16XE-Knock-sensor-/281060411594?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41708188ca&nma=true&si=JAHgX4SooZ4lTRGDRjtpRqrmYQ8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[meritlover]

would it not be easier to get hold of a working sensor which is correct for your ECU? trying to bodge the wrong one will be frustrating when you cant get it to work?

[Curtoise]

yes that makes sense actually, to try and find a earlier knock sensor no idea where i would get one of them from, and a plug to connect it!

[John]

cambelt timed up correctly? no air leaks? the x14xe runs Lambda so you should have a plug on your loom.

[Curtoise]

yeah timings spot on, might have a slight air leak but wouldnt drop the limiter tho surley?
and its a x16xe does anyone have any pics of the lambda connected ?

[John]

the x14/16xe looms are all the same iirc. If it's got an air leak it's taking in extra, unmetered air. Get the lambda sorted.

[Curtoise]

yeah i will pop to scrappy tomorrow to get a lambda, and somehow see where to wire it up. ile get a knock sensor new.

[meritlover]

... If it's got an air leak it's taking in extra, unmetered air.

not if its running a MAP sensor

[John]

not if its running a MAP sensor

ok "unmetered" was probably the wrong term. If the car doesn't even have the lambda wired up, the ecu fuelling calculations are gonna be all over the shop, the extra air isn't going to help.

[Curtoise]

right so i found the plug! connected a lambda i found in the garage from my old engine. runs alot better now no more popping on lift off.

still limits at 5k and idles at 1200, any way to lower this? to me it indicates and air leak?!

rep for the help so far

[John]

sort the air leak.

[meritlover]

ok "unmetered" was probably the wrong term. If the car doesn't even have the lambda wired up, the ecu fuelling calculations are gonna be all over the shop, the extra air isn't going to help.
it wont make a blind bit of difference when its running MAP sensing. the MAP doesnt care if the air is coming through a leak in the plenum or from the TB, it just sees the vacuum change and adjusts the fueling. sure it will idle higher, but wont do much to the fueling as it will be proportional to MAP.

[meritlover]

right so i found the plug! connected a lambda i found in the garage from my old engine. runs alot better now no more popping on lift off.

still limits at 5k and idles at 1200, any way to lower this? to me it indicates and air leak?!

rep for the help so far

high idle is air leak.

[Curtoise]

hmmm, i am going to have to make a bit of pipe to go from the map to the powerbox, as the dowels in the powerbox are a joke. they are tiny! no vac hose is small enough.
im going to get a fresh inlet gasket tomorrow

[meritlover]

so the MAP sensor is not properly connected to the plenum?

[Curtoise]

it is connected, but its not ideal the dowels coming out of the plenum are about 2 or 3mm and i have small vac hose connected to the one off the map sensor.

[meritlover]

shouldnt matter too much providing the tube is not leaking around the hose barbs.

check the vacuum line to the FPR as well.

[Curtoise]

yeah the one to the FPR is all good as its a small one. the piping is much bigger on the map sensor so it has to be reduced.

Does anyone know if i can swap the knock sensor for the old one if i get the plug ?

[meritlover]

its normally just a 2 wire piezo with a shield wire. If there is no knock sensor it will definately be holding back the timing somehow. That's it's job so it will default 'safe' if its missing.

[Curtoise]

yeah it has one fitted. but the ecu is a early one so runs a different type. which is pretty much just as good as not having one at all!
when i unplugged it, there was no change so it must be this!
what is a piezo?
apparently the early ones have one wire

[meritlover]

i dont know how it can have one wire and work properly. a piezo is a crystal which generates a tiny voltage when its squeezed. its mounted on a mass inside the sensor. kinda like a microphone. the knock-unit senses the frequency of detanation and tells the ecu to retard the timing. when its done 'x' amount of revolutions without further knock it starts again to increase ign advance until it happens again. it just constantly optimises the timing and protects the engine from serious det.

[chrisd1986]

shouldnt matter too much providing the tube is not leaking around the hose barbs.

check the vacuum line to the FPR as well.

cable tie the hose on

[meritlover]

dont cable tie the hose on. cable ties make the hose oval and cause more leaks than they prevent. find the right size hose and barbs. it runs at vacuum anyway so their not going to blow off.

[Curtoise]

thats what i have done cable tied them and put a drop of super glue at the base of the dowels to seal them.

thanks for that meritlover. that does seem to be what its doing sometimes when i accelerate its really boggy, and other times if im smooth with throttle it revs up fine.

i will order another one tomorrow and see what happens!

[meritlover]

sometimes a 1meg ohm resistor across the plug is enough to make the det sensor think its there and healthy. but i wouldnt recommend trying. i would have to get the meter out and experiment myself.

[Curtoise]

Small update, sealed my air leak with a new inlet gasket.

And I tryed the standard corsa bottom pulley and it still limited at 5k do that has been eliminated. I have a knock sensor arriving today to try next

[meritlover]

so the idle speed is now normal?
strange how there is no fault code with the missing det sensor.

[Curtoise]

No sorry, it has got a det sensor fitted and wired in. But it doesnt match the ecu as there were 2 types of sensor. So I have Ordered an early one that should be here any min to try on !

[Curtoise]

update: just fitted the new knock sensor, still limits at 5k. next its the cam sensor

[meritlover]

bummer

[Curtoise]

video added to page 1

[meritlover]

where is page 1?

[meritlover]

ok, found page 1. video makes me none the wiser. still sounds like an engine prematurely hitting the limiter. there is something wrong that the engine is trying to protect its self against at high RPM. either it thinks the timing is wrong or its not happy about a sensor. seeing as there are no codes flashed back its likely a sensor that is on its way out but is still within a reasonable parameter. try the cam sensor next. theres not much else unless you can get a code reader that will tell you what live values each sender it seeing.

[Southie]

Out of interest what fuel pump are you running?

[Curtoise]

A astra mk3 astra mpi one
And The cam sensor is going in soon ! Watch this space

[chrisd1986]

I worked on a suzuki that ran like that and it was a cam sensor, the ecu put it into limp home mode and the customer was in the oitside lane on the motorway and it dropped to 30mph

[Curtoise]

cam sensor did NOT fix the fault. still limits at 5k!

it MUST be the knock sensor not being compattible with the ecu?!

[Mazz]

Why are you running a 14XE ECU on a 16XE? Surely that can't be helping matters? Surely 16XE ECU's can be got hold of cheaply enough...

[chrisd1986]

When you fitted the powerbox did you lengthen the loom to plug in the egr or did you leave it unplugged?

[chrisd1986]

Why are you running a 14XE ECU on a 16XE? Surely that can't be helping matters? Surely 16XE ECU's can be got hold of cheaply enough...

It wont and the 16xe ecu's are getting thin on the ground these days as people keep loosing the immob chips

[Curtoise]

I am running a 14xe ecu beause it was the only one I could get hold of ASAP. I am in the process of buying a x16xe loom and ecu.

Chris the egr is blanked and unplugged

[Curtoise]

just for anybody who ever has the same problem i solved it!

it was that i was running a early ECU with a late loom. the fault occured because the knock sensor wiring is slightly different from late to early ecu's i have now replaced it with a late ecu and all is well

[Southie]

Did you upgrade the imobiliser as well then with it not being an early one?

[Curtoise]

yeah mate one popped up on ebay local to me, so i bazzed there and wired it into my loom.

However i will point out that to get it running i had to differ from the diagram.

the blue/red signal wire from the transponder had to run to the blue/BLACK wire coming from the ecu! otherwise it would be immobilised

[johnd]

good to hear you got it sorted