wideband

[chambers1984]

just looking to order a wideband was going to get the aem one but then looking at the innovate.
anyone now the best value one for the money? cheers

[meritlover]

depends what you want it for, what you need or want it to interface with, what you want from the software provided etc... There are several on the market, all have different performance and are suitable for different tasks. Innovate has a good following, but i wouldn't consider it the 'best'. But then the best value for money isnt necessarily the best performer.
make sure it uses a real wide-band sensor like an LSU 4.2 a few 'wideband' units out there use narrow band sensors like the LSM11 and then extrapolate the narrow range of the sensor to give a perceived wideband output.

[Graeme]

I'd go with the Aem, also has a great following but mainly for these few reasons

Requires no calibration where as the innovate does
Use a Bosch sensor which is easily replaced
Gauge is easy to read unlike the single colour which looks tacky imo
A lot of matching gauges in the range, so can look coordinated ( I also have fuel pressure, oil pressure and the tru boost controller)

[meritlover]

I'd go with the Aem, also has a great following but mainly for these few reasons

Requires no calibration where as the innovate does
Use a Bosch sensor which is easily replaced


how is no calibration feature a benefit?! O_o
Its a simple task of pressing a button when the sensor is in 'free air' this sets the upper range to 21.9% O2. i cant see how not having this feature is a benefit.
the innovate uses an easily sourced Bosch LSU.

[Graeme]

I have been told that people have had to do it on a monthly basis or if the car isn't used regularly, I was also told by a reliable source that it shouldn't be done with the lambda in the exhaust, so I'd imagine that it would be a pita to constantly be removing it

[meritlover]

Your source is correct, and hence the term 'free air'. I'm sure it is a PITA, but how does the unit possibly compensate for sensor degradation automatically and still give a valid reading?

As the lambda gathers soot and contaminates its range changes and gives an erroneous reading. i would rather have the confidence that my readings are correct than have a number that is meaningless and hence dangerous to my engine.

[chambers1984]

so we saying that the innovate is best to go for?

[Benn]

I sold my innovate one after talking to Dale on Mig, he had just changed over to a AEM, due to the Innovate one wanting to be reset (started to fresh air) every month. Which is a bit of hassle really.
And the lambda it's self breaking down faster than others.
And i've seen afew people had probs with the sensor that feeds the gauge breaking too.

I'm gonna get a AEM when i can.

[Graeme]

I hate your intelligence meritlover

[Stuart]

Innovatives also have a habit of lunching sensors

[chambers1984]

i no it abit more work and might go throw sensors but if the innovate one needs to re calibrating that is surely a good thing like meritlover said its best to have a true readout than a readout thats wrong

[Stuart]

How often do oem wide bands need recalibrating....... Ahh yes, 'never'*



*im sure they benefit from a tweak now and then but its in the hundereds of k miles area.

[skud52]

The 14point7 setups worth considering imo. Innovate has a bad problem regarding error codes which wont clear

[meritlover]

How often do oem wide bands need recalibrating....... Ahh yes, 'never'*



*im sure they benefit from a tweak now and then but its in the hundereds of k miles area.


eh?!
a lambda sensor is an 'air battery' of course it degrades, im not intereseted in OEM sensors which are used for minor tweaks of the AFR correction tables. tuning an engine on an unknown quantity is just downright dangerous and stupid. OEM sensors degrade less because they are fitted to clean running engines. if you use one for tuning its exposed to rich and lean mixtures which accelerates the degradation. to get a worthwhile comparison you need to be able to calibrate it to get a baseline so you are comparing apples with apples and like for like.

if you choose not to buy an AFR meter with no cal function the only way to be sure is to fit a new sensor. even though its 'wideband' the voltage range is still tiny so even a small % change in output corresponds to a large offset in scaled range....if you had a cal function you would see this....

[Benn]

Why would you not fit a new sensor anyway? I think i always would..

[chambers1984]

Why would you not fit a new sensor anyway? I think i always would..
i think meritlover means if you have the function to recali it you dont need a new sensor each time as its will get a true reading when its in free air.
but with the aem kit there just used once then the fuel and soot will block the sensor alittle so not give a true reading next time

[matthew172]

what afr ratios are people seeing on full boost?

[meritlover]

what afr ratios are people seeing on full boost?

thats an odd question.

but 12.5:1 is not a bad number.

[meritlover]

Why would you not fit a new sensor anyway? I think i always would..

how would you know you needed a new sensor though? this is the whole point.

[Stuart]

Many oem vehicles use a wideband sensor for super hip emissions controls that you all hate lol

[meritlover]

VAG use the LSU 4.2 as an OEM item, but its not used for closed loop with no overshoot like the on-off control narrowband sensors which give worse emissions.

[matthew172]

thats an odd question.

but 12.5:1 is not a bad number.

12.5 at WOT not a bit lean?

[Stuart]

VAG use the LSU 4.2 as an OEM item, but its not used for closed loop with no overshoot like the on-off control narrowband sensors which give worse emissions.

And how often do you have to take the car in for a recalibrating sesh..... Ahhhh.

[meritlover]

12.5 at WOT not a bit lean?

depends on so many things like air inlet temps. full boost and full boost at WOT are different things anyway

[meritlover]

And how often do you have to take the car in for a recalibrating sesh..... Ahhhh.

it continues to 'self learn' until it goes out of range and then the EML comes on...and it gets changed. when you are tuning however...you dont know your sensor is degrading...