Morris not nova ignition.

[marc69]

Video of Morris at end of thread.

Sorry it's not Nova but my mates morris minor.

After sitting for the winter it won't start and I have had three afternoons sorting it with no success.

Basically it turns but won't start.

After a good bit of turning it stinks of fuel and the plugs are wet so it is safe to say it's getting fuel.

I cannot get a spark at a plug so, into the dizzy.

I have put in 2 different sets of points, condenser and three different coils, Nothing.

Having the car turn over with the dizzy cap off I assume I should see regular spark from the points as they open and shut? There is nothing.

I have checked they are getting current when they are open and there is no current when they are shut. ( I think the condensor takes it)

Does anyone have any ideas as I have none left!

[kent14sr]

My Midget was a pig to start after the winter (as usual!)

On a Midget there is a red ignition light (I assume a Moggy 1000 has same/similar system) and I had a loose connection behind it - this was giving intermittent low input voltage at the coil - could be same?

[marc69]

Thanks, the multi meter is saying 12v but could be intermittent when under load and turning?

He's had this for years and it has never failed him before and I really can't stand being defeated!!

[kent14sr]

The annoying thing with these is that its always something simple.

In essence if you have 12v going into the coil, then you should have an output to the distributor if the coil is working correctly.

If there is voltage accross the points then check rotor arm and distributor cap (both often reason for issues). If all ok then you should have a spark if the leads and plugs are ok.

I guess the fuel is ok and hasnt gone off?

[mowgli]

charge the battery. dry the plugs off in the warm, spray wd40 everywhere you can in the dizzy. iirc you own an old mini, don't you?? its pretty much identical..damp is your enemy

is the coil producing HT volts?

have you tried towing it & bump starting it??

if you are desperate, i have a haynes book for one somewhere about.

[marc69]

The annoying thing with these is that its always something simple.

In essence if you have 12v going into the coil, then you should have an output to the distributor if the coil is working correctly.

If there is voltage accross the points then check rotor arm and distributor cap (both often reason for issues). If all ok then you should have a spark if the leads and plugs are ok.

I guess the fuel is ok and hasnt gone off?

Yes, it will be something that will make me feel stupid!

Yes, the coil is giving 12v to the points. They have volts on them when the ignition is turned on but when the car is being turned, with the cap off, there is no spark going as the points open each time which is making me wonder if it may be a poor connection somewhere as you mentioned with the red light. Perhaps under load (starter) the poor connection is not taking the current? At least another avenue to try.

Fuel should be ok, I think it was run in Novemeber, it's the no spark at the points or plugs that's frustrating.

[marc69]

charge the battery. dry the plugs off in the warm, spray wd40 everywhere you can in the dizzy. iirc you own an old mini, don't you?? its pretty much identical..damp is your enemy

is the coil producing HT volts?

have you tried towing it & bump starting it??

if you are desperate, i have a haynes book for one somewhere about.

You are right, the ignition is identical to the seven, but it has never given me any problems so far...............

It all looks dry but I will throw wd40 in it, can't do any harm.

Thanks for the Haynes offer but the owner has one, although there is a good diagnosis guide in it, I couldn't identify from any of the tests where the fault actually lies.

I think if there is no success by the weekend then tow starting it will have to be done, hopefully to force it all into action.

How can i tell if the coil is producing HT voltage?

[mowgli]

stick a spark plug on the ht lead from the coil & ground it out. oh & make sure you are well insulated or it might make your joints ache for a few hours

[kent14sr]

The coil is correct - ie 12v and not 6v?

[mowgli]

it was parked up, it should be fine

[kent14sr]

it was parked up, it should be fine

He has replaced the coil (1st post)

[meritlover]

a points system couldnt be any more simple

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Car_ignition_system.svg/450px-Car_ignition_system.svg.png

remember that the plug should spark when the points OPEN, not as they close. flicking a screwdriver between them will induce a spark from the HT post of the coil to earth.

if you have a ballast resistor in the circuit to limit the current to the coil during running, check this. or bypass it temporarily to ensure your getting a spark.
engine earth would cause an issue, but if its cranking you would see your choke and throttle cables glowing red by now.

check resistance between the distributor housing and earth as sometimes there is a small braided wire that takes earths the backplate from the points to the distributor housing to provide an earth path for the points. these can rot and crumble as the adv/ret mechanism moves.

then check the coil housing to earth.

to remove all doubt of the cars LT circuit, wire as above diagram straight to the battery bypassing the cars ign switch. flick the points and check for spark.

sounds unlikely to be the coil,plug or condenser if you have already changed them. providing they are known good spares.

you have measured the voltage, but not the current. perhaps a high resistance somewhere is causing the current to collapse at the distributor during cranking?

if you concentrate really hard you will be able to wish this engine into life.

[chris862]

We have a moggy in the fleet :thumb:

Is the points gap correct?
All plugs got a spark?
take each plug out individually and get someone to turn it over with a screwdriver on the end of the plug, you should see a spark

you say fuel is getting through so the pumps working, also guessing the fuel is ok and not gone off, and you've replaced the points and condensor which should rule them out,

Is it running and alternator or dynamo? ours is still running the dynamo, cleaning the brushes in it can help with charging, perhaps suspect the control box?

Cheers

[marc69]

SUCCESS!!!!

I went today to the car, tried the coil on my mini cooper, it worked so that wasn't to fault. I decided to remove every connection, cleaned it up, every fuse checked and so on........then turned it over and got a spark at the points-progress at last.

Now with a spark, somewhere to start. Next was still no spark at the plugs so, check the spark is reaching the dizzy, rtemoved the centre lead slightly and the sparks leaped so basically there was a good enough regular spark, the cap or rotor arm just wasn't distributing it. Replaced the cap and arm.....and then drove it.

It's a bit rough and under powered just now but with checking all gaps and carb tuning (the SU is sooo simple, a dream) should sort it out.

One wierd question though, the two leads on the coil seem to work connected either way, is this right? My mate couldn't remember which way they should go. It is a positive earth car.

Thanks to everyone as always for advice and tips.

[mowgli]

if the coil is insulated, then then i don't see how it matters which way its connected. but try it both ways to see if one is better

ps. i'm pleased that you got it running

[meritlover]

i have heard reports that the wrong polarity on the coil leads to the rotor arm burning out sooner. I have never experienced it myself but if you get problem does appear, i would be interested to hear....and then simply swap the coil posts across.

if it really mattered to the coil, the manufacturer would have made it clear what post is what.

I am glad you have managed to get it running, i was wondering.

[marc69]

Thanks, I'll tell him to monitor it.

I bet he brings it round tomorrow to get me to check point gap, distributor timing and carb adjustments, without the deserved pint!

I might take photos if it doesn't offend anyone, but for anyone who has been in one, it is surprising just how comfortable at 50 mph they are compared to most modern cars, a really forgiving ride.

[marc69]

Here is my mate driving his Minor, after all my work here is how he drives it (make sure your volume is up)


http://s988.photobucket.com/user/69marc/media/MOV_02221_zpsa5678b99.mp4.html

[mowgli]

nowhere near quick enough.... lol lol lol....

i'm still planning to get a 4 door moggie for my daughters to use as their 1st car

[marc69]

they are great to work on, quite comfortable and really rewarding as a drive (up to 50mph), I do think in all of his cars you can tell Issigonis was a driver rather than an accountant.

So long as the chassis legs are good you can almost get every other part for your daughters car, a great network of support through clubs

[mowgli]

i had a moggie pickup.... you don't need to convince me... max speed 71mph..... average speed on journeys 70mph..... it pre-dated the drift craze by about 40 years....& made comedy fart noises on the over-run

[marc69]

The pea shooter exhausts sound great, fart fart fart!