View Full Version : 20XE stays cold
If I start and drive my 20XE Nova normally it stays cold, on the dash it doesn't even leave the blue
If I rag it, it stays the same
If I leave it fast idling (2,000rpm) and it gets up to half way and the rad fan kicks in fine
I've checked the sensor isn't corroded and fitted a new thermostat and no improvement. It is cold and it's running a larger TXAutosport ally radiator but would still expect it to heat up?
w_wall_2001
09-04-13, 11:05 AM
are the clocks not under reading? maybe worth try a set quickly
will
richz_nova
09-04-13, 12:38 PM
Mine also use to do this aswell, its the cold air hitting the rad and coolings the water before it can get warm. Put some cardbord in offl the front the rad an it will heat up :thumb:
I think the gauge is correct, as when the fan kicks in it's the same place it's always been (just over half on the gauge)
Cheers Rich that's a plan I was thinking of doing, I thought the thermostat was supposed to maintain the heat in the engine until it was ready for cooling though?
richz_nova
09-04-13, 12:55 PM
Also thought the same with the thermostat I put to thermostat's in cause I thought it was faulty. The cardbord trick works though, if you can still see the cardboard the though the grill use clear perspex. I coverd about half if my rad
Jeff16v
09-04-13, 01:01 PM
My black turbo also doesn't warm up very well, only if I sit in traffic for ages. I have a tx radiator.
richz_nova
09-04-13, 01:09 PM
I got a standard GTE rad I think
meritlover
09-04-13, 01:11 PM
dont trust the dash gauge.
it sounds fine.
i might be missing something here.... i thought keeping the engine cool was a good thing?
chrisd1986
09-04-13, 01:17 PM
just take the themostat out and test it, and if thats fine then do the cardboard accross half the rad but you will probably have to take it out come summer as i had this issue with my old mk2 golf with a 2.0 16v on twin 40's then come summer it started to get a bit hot so i ended up taking it back out again
chrisd1986
09-04-13, 01:19 PM
i might be missing something here.... i thought keeping the engine cool was a good thing?
but you dont want to give it some stick when its too cold tho do you and he might be cold if there is no hot air comi g from the heaters lol
meritlover
09-04-13, 01:21 PM
i might be missing something here.... i thought keeping the engine cool was a good thing?
you are missing something,
optimum temp is around 84-90 deg,
Sure, a cold engine will make more power as the charge density will be higher, but it will wear out quicker as the oil will never be at working temp. Any power gained by running cold will likely be lost whipping thick cold oil around.
I have an oil temperature gauge and that does increase in temperature to around 80C I think
However I thought the second sensor next to the dash one for the ECU would misinform the ECU of it's running temperature and potentially overfuel thinking it was cold?
I'll pop some cardboard over the radiator and see if that helps!
meritlover
09-04-13, 02:13 PM
the ECU is probably quite happy with what temp it sees.
oil temp is fine, cant have 80deg oil and 5deg water.
the dash sensor is separate and the gauge is pretty much meaningless as i have said in several posts before
i dont know what you hope to achieve by using card. Do you want to end up with a hotter than normal engine or just a gauge showing slightly warmer?
as long as the oil temp is fairly steady at 80deg there isnt a problem.
Was it a genuine thermostat? The reason I ask is I fitted a new thermostat purely because they are cheap and I was doing everyt else. It neve got hot unless sat still so out the old one back in and it works as it should.
you are missing something,
optimum temp is around 84-90 deg,
Sure, a cold engine will make more power as the charge density will be higher, but it will wear out quicker as the oil will never be at working temp. Any power gained by running cold will likely be lost whipping thick cold oil around.
Also if your car never gets hot enough to get out if the cold start enrichment your car will be running to rich
meritlover
09-04-13, 02:40 PM
Also if your car never gets hot enough to get out if the cold start enrichment your car will be running to rich
correct, that was something which i had also forgotten to mention.
i will also cook your cat' and prevent closed loop during cruise, which causes even higher fuel consumption.
Mine pops and bangs like a mofo when cold (although the temp does rise just out the blue, cooler stat) which sounds awesome but i imagine the reason is over fuelling? I've got a new normal stat to try in it though
chrisd1986
09-04-13, 08:49 PM
cold stats are a pointless imo, just wire up a switch for the fan and keep an eye on it or get one of those adjustable fan switch and set it to kick in at tbe temp you want it to run at
Whats wrong with it running at the 90 degrees its supposed to?
meritlover
09-04-13, 08:57 PM
cold stats are a pointless imo, just wire up a switch for the fan and keep an eye on it or get one of those adjustable fan switch and set it to kick in at tbe temp you want it to run at
a fan will do nothing at anything above 10mph other than make a noise.
has anyone actually measured the engine temps or are people just going by the pointless dash gauge?
Not a genuine one, just a motor factors part. However it behaves exactly the same as the one I took out.
Yes it's the cold rich running I was concerned about, drove it last night and the oil temp was at 80C so that's OK.
I will go ahead with blocking some of the radiator.
meritlover
10-04-13, 12:24 PM
drove it last night and the oil temp was at 80C so that's OK.
I will go ahead with blocking some of the radiator.
why?
Why:
Yes it's the cold rich running I was concerned about
meritlover
10-04-13, 12:36 PM
Yes it's the cold rich running I was concerned about, drove it last night and the oil temp was at 80C so that's OK.
if the oil is 80deg it wont be running cold.
the gauge doesnt control the cold start enrichment.
until you have measured the water temp properly, all you are doing is blindly warming your engine to satisfy yourself that the gauge is now further up than it was before.
i might be missing something here.... i thought keeping the engine cool was a good thing?
Plus its bad on fueling and running.
cold stats are a pointless imo, just wire up a switch for the fan and keep an eye on it or get one of those adjustable fan switch and set it to kick in at tbe temp you want it to run at
No car will over heat unless there is a prob. The engine getting up to temp is good, even sitting in traffic wont hurt it. As long as the fan comes on a 90deg they it's all ok.
a fan will do nothing at anything above 10mph other than make a noise.
has anyone actually measured the engine temps or are people just going by the pointless dash gauge?
I was gonna ask the same, Iaian does the rad get warm to the touch?
As mine as always heated up nicely and quickly(just under half way), till now where it doesn't get pass 1/4.. I think my clocks are dieing. I'm gonna test my rad with a heat lazor thingie.
if the oil is 80deg it wont be running cold.
the gauge doesnt control the cold start enrichment.
until you have measured the water temp properly, all you are doing is blindly warming your engine to satisfy yourself that the gauge is now further up than it was before.
Well the dash gauge is as accurate as it's always been, since the fan kicks in at the same point on the gauge
The dash sensor and ECU temperature are right next to eachother so will be getting the same readings
Therefore it makes sense that the ECU will think the engine's quite cold based on the location of it's reading.
I'll check the rad and hoses for temperature on the next drive.
meritlover
10-04-13, 02:24 PM
Well the dash gauge is as accurate as it's always been, since the fan kicks in at the same point on the gauge
repeatable: possibly,
having a linear scale representing anything meaningful: Certainly not!
The dash sensor and ECU temperature are right next to eachother so will be getting the same readings
Therefore it makes sense that the ECU will think the engine's quite cold based on the location of it's reading.
.
i dont think you see my point.
They will be reading the same points, im sure the ECU is perfectly happy with what its seeing
so will gauge sender, but the way it represents the information to you is erroneous and they are not connected to each other in any way.
Have you tested the sensor iain?
meritlover
10-04-13, 02:38 PM
once the engine is warm, disconnect the ECU ECT sender plug and measure the resistance with a decent Fluke.
if its in the range of 395 to 207 Ohms then there isnt really a problem.
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/398
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/images/clt-resistance-chart.gif
this is the only simple way of ensuring what the ECU is seeing is reasonable, measuring the actual engine temp, and testing if the sensor is working.
Burgo no, I'll do the above though to test it out thanks sirs.
Does it have a 82 or 92 degree thermostat?
Whatever the factors gave me, assume 92 as standard as I gave him the model/engine
Hope its a 92deg, cool stats are just to55! Lol
Also you mention blocking the rad.
Surely the thermostat should open/close enough to keep the temp to where it needs to be? No matter how much "over-cooling" the rad is doing?
I also had a brand new (but cheap) factors thermostat that just didn't work right at all. Not held a constant temp. Binned it.
Put a new 92c thermostat in and see if that makes a difference
meritlover
11-04-13, 11:58 PM
Put a new 92c thermostat in and see if that makes a difference
eh?
make a difference to what? satisfying a stupid gauge? or getting the engine to the correct temp?
meritlover is bang on.. the fan should be cutting in as the needle hits the red if the gauge is right, and from what you have said, its reading low.. the gauge is only showing the range from about 80 deg to 100 anyway in a std car.
i have never understood anyone covering a rad with card or perspex... a 150hp engine actually wastes about 450 hp in heat & noise to get the 150hp, the cooling system shifts it.. if its crazy cold weather, like in alaska, then you might need something, but not in the UK.
the spec of engine iain's has probably means it is 'overcooled' but that is a price you have to pay to get reliable track day running, where the car is at speed and will obviously be poking out more heat.
Hitting the red?? Id hope it be on way before that.. mine comes on at half with i believe us 95...
meritlover is bang on.. the fan should be cutting in as the needle hits the red if the gauge is right, and from what you have said, its reading low.. the gauge is only showing the range from about 80 deg to 100 anyway in a std car.
i have never understood anyone covering a rad with card or perspex... a 150hp engine actually wastes about 450 hp in heat & noise to get the 150hp, the cooling system shifts it.. if its crazy cold weather, like in alaska, then you might need something, but not in the UK.
the spec of engine iain's has probably means it is 'overcooled' but that is a price you have to pay to get reliable track day running, where the car is at speed and will obviously be poking out more heat.
If a nova coolant gauge goes anywhere near the red then youve got problems!
And i wouldnt say its overcooled at all, as said if the coolant and oil cooler thermostats are working correctly then it wouldnt be running cold.
The fan kicks it at just over half way on the gauge.
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