Breaks won't bleed!!!!!!!

[paul burney]

Hi, I'm having trouble with my breaks on my nova I have STD rear drums and 288 fronts I recentley removed the servo and master cylinder and now I have rebuilt it all the breaks won't bleed I have put a new master cylinder on and fluid will pump to the breaks but the pedal will not go hard and I have bled over 4 litres throughout the system and the pedal still hits the floor. Does any body have Amy ideas? Cheers

[conza123]

Are the rear shoes adjust up as that can give lot of pedal travel,
And double check you have no leaks anywhere?

[paul burney]

I have checked everywhere an can't see any leaks and the rear drums a step up spot on that's what I thought it could of bin also but Dint make any difference

[mowgli]

ok, are the calipers on the right way round?? where are the bleed screws? top or bottom?

[Andy]

seals must have flipped

[brainsnova]

A pressure bleeder kit is the best option to save the seals

[paul burney]

What seals mate. I have just order a pressure blessed kit just waiting the 3 weeks for it to come lol

[Andy]

seals in the master cylinder.They can flip over if you give it rock all straight away.I ALWAYS do little pumps by hand initially til it starts getting round the pipes.

[bazil]

What seals mate. I have just order a pressure blessed kit just waiting the 3 weeks for it to come lol

Cheap gunsons kit from Halfords dies the job,

I'd go with flipped seal in the MC too, I have 288 on front and drums on the rear and the pedal is fine,

[Nobby]

ok, are the calipers on the right way round?? where are the bleed screws? top or bottom?:thumb:

[chrisd1986]

ive only ever used a pressure bleader, i seem to get a better pedal other than doing it manualy

[paul burney]

The bleeding nipple is on the top mate

[paul burney]

Right guys I have been down there again today have taken the MS off and check all seals inside and try all look good I have connected everything back up and bled it with the air bleeder all the dot4 is coming out clear from every brake with no air but still I have no pedal at all it just goes striaght to the floor I don't no what else to try I have ran out off all ideas. Any one have any ideas that I can try. This is the last thing before I can finally get here on the road. I have had these brakes working before with no problem till I put the c20let in. It has a brand new MS so can't be that.

Thanks a lot guys any ideas would be brill

Thanks
Paul

[meritlover]

take each caliper off and riggle it around to encourage any air to collect at the top beside the bleed nipple.

[Andy]

I still say the master is fukked.
Air bleeder of course will still pull fluid through past the knackered seals.

[staggy_gsi]

Im with Andy on this....

[paul burney]

Does anyone have a ms for sale that they no that works. I bought a brad new one off the shelf but u never realy no do u

[L14MNP]

Haven't read this, so gonna steam in lol

Anyone suggested upside down calipers? (I'm gonna read it now.)

[L14MNP]

I see you never removed the calipers! lol

M/C is my guess too. Probs inverted the seals and now they're shagged.

[brainsnova]

Haven't read this, so gonna steam in lol

Anyone suggested upside down calipers? (I'm gonna read it now.)

People who do it need to step away from motors lol they are to release air not drain the system

[L14MNP]

People who do it need to step away from motors lol they are to release air not drain the system

I know it's a favourite of these Vauxhall boys, so always worth a mention. lol

[paul burney]

I think it is the m/s myself but when I took it apart today it looked spot no the seals all looked good.

[Andy]

which seals? you had the master apart?

[paul burney]

I have taken is off and stripped it today all looked good on the inside

[meritlover]

someone else was going on about a problem like this for pages and pages on here a few weeks ago. He never came back again so i assume he found the problem. Try asking him?

[paul burney]

I have had a loom and commented on it see what happens a really font understand why they won't work lol. The joys of playing with cars hay

[brainsnova]

someone else was going on about a problem like this for pages and pages on here a few weeks ago. He never came back again so i assume he found the problem. Try asking him?

People suck that don't respond to threads they start with a solution to the problem to help others

[Novasport]

Just trying to remember as it has been a while since I took off a master cylinder and I cannot see in on EPC. Is there a push rod between the servo & master cylinder? I know there is something but cannot remember if it is internal to the servo. If it had fallen out, that would cause an issue.

[Novasport]

Internal to servo I think.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/NovaSport/20130401_201341_zpsab798449.jpg

[meritlover]

People suck that don't respond to threads they start with a solution to the problem to help others

yes, its the no. 1 failure of forums. It also doesnt help that people cant spell titles properly so others wont have a chance of even searching for a similar problem.

[paul burney]

So guys what do you think I should try next I will check each caliper and make sure there is no air traped. But if that dot work a really don't even no where to try next lol

[meritlover]

try finding out where the problem is.

also try Novasports suggestion.

is there any fluid actually pumping out the nipples when you press the pedal?

[paul burney]

Yeah there is fluid pumping through no problem

[jimbob-mcgrew]

did you put the front calipers on the right sides ? as bleed nipple would be low down if not, trapping air.

what fluid you using too, and is it new or old ?

[paul burney]

The front calipers are on the right side the bleeding nipple is at the top and I have had them working in the past no problems. I have bought some brand new dot4 oil I have bled 5 litres through the system already and I am still having the same problem. If I pump the pedal it start to go hard and I get some pedal but as soon as I leave it for ten seconds or so it goes all the way back to the floor again

[meritlover]

its either 3 things,

its leaking back into the reservoir (ie the master cylinder is U/S)

Its leaking onto the floor

there is still air in the system

Given that youve already flushed a lot of fluid through, it sounds as though there is likely no air left as normally the pedal goes spongy rather than fading away. The system isnt complicated so perhaps try another master cylinder.

Have you had the rear drums off to look at the condition of the rear cylinders?

[paul burney]

Yeah the rear cylinder are good and the drums are setup perfect I think it is the m/s to be honest but the 80 pound a try so trying to check every other option first

[jimbob-mcgrew]

a 5 litre bleed !
that's going for it paul lol

there any scrap yards local to you paul ?
im not clued up on which Vaux's will fit, but 8v corsa's and Astra's might.
if you grab the whole servo drum and cylinder bit together from something, replace the lot and see if it fixes.

oh 1 other thing.
have you checked the pedal linkage bar, is it pulling on the servo 100% like it should ?

[Stuart]

Tbh it sounds like standard 288mm brake problems.... I've driven a few Novas with these 288mm calipers up front and you not get hard pedal or stopping at the very bottom unless you pump the pedal. IMHO you need a bias box or to chuck the 288's in the bin and get 256's

[Andy]

I had 288s on my nova and my pedal was fine.spud still runs them to this day

[paul burney]

I have had the 288s working before no problem I have a set of 256s and will try them at weekend see if that helps

[craig green]

This problem does crop up from time to time regarding brakes. I have typed out lengthy replies about my experience bleeding my 288's. It turned out I had the pad retaining spring on wrong, it looked correct but was hooked around the caliper upside down, anyhow it was allowing the 2 halves of the caliper to flex apart under pedal pressure, when it was corrected, the brakes were awesome (so they should be after god knows how many attempts at bleeding)

Sort this & I reckon they'll be fine. :thumb:

[dudley]

... i would chock the brake pedal down overight, with a bit of timber pressed to the drivers seat, then air will be forced back to the highest point, the M/Cylinder.. see if that helps, sounds like air in the system to me..

[paul burney]

I will be trying all this on Saturday and will let u all no how I get on thanks for all the comments guys it's a big help