plumbing peeps

[burgo]

To me this is one big confusion

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/sclurgess/20130201_204407_zps961db59c.jpg

The thing is at the moment my gas bill is sky high so to help bring it down a bit im hoping that i flick this on for an hour before showers and stuff the hot water will come from this instead of the boiler, but how to I tell if it is plumbed in to work this way?

[turbojolt]

there is no way your immersion heater will be cheaper to run then your boiler

[Jon_nova1]

Your immersion is electrically heated, a back boiler behind your fire is used for central heating although you should have a timer elsewhere in the house

[burgo]

there is no way your immersion heater will be cheaper to run then your boiler

£30 a week gas says otherwise

[mowgli]

burgo, if you have a bath, run baths instead. its way cheaper than a shower

[burgo]

Nope no baths just showers

[mowgli]

is it a combi boiler? as in does it turn on each time you put the tap on?

[Jeff16v]

The immersion heats via rods which take ages to heat for not enough water

[turbojolt]

doubt it with that cylinder in the shot

[mowgli]

tj, ask burgo to post a pic of his gas meter. you know why..........nudge nudge

[turbojolt]

burgo aint intrested, no one is apprantly lol

[turbojolt]

if he lived local i would have popped round to chuck my u gauge on it tho, as he does seem to be using to much gas!

for him to have to even think of using his immersion heater which is basicly a massive kettle is crazy, his supplyer should be checking the meter to make sure it aint running to fast, its a piss take.

[mowgli]

and its not like you know anyone with 1/2 a shed full of old meters......lol

[Stuart]

The power shower pump won't be helping.

[turbojolt]

and its not like you know anyone with 1/2 a shed full of old meters......lol

half a shed!!!! never, what a **** lol

[burgo]

is it a combi boiler? as in does it turn on each time you put the tap on?

Sort of. You get some hot water before it fires up. Tis a proper **** boiler


The power shower pump won't be helping.
Nothing powerful about it lol

[brainsnova]

My mate said £30 a week is good for a back boiler, you could switch off the gas and relight the pilot when needed

[burgo]

My mate said £30 a week is good for a back boiler, you could switch off the gas and relight the pilot when needed

Its not a back boiler

[Dan Stanley]

Burgo, from my experience (electrician who has changed many an immersion element) what you have there is an immersion heater back up. Your boiler takes care of the heating and the hot water normally. It stores the hot water in the cylinder with the temp of the water being controlled by the thermostat on the cylinder (light grey/white box strapped round the cylinder, with a dial on it). You may want to check this is not up too high, 65-70'C is about norm.
The immersion heater will also heat the water if you switch it on, but as TJ says, it'll cost more (if we assume your gas meter and boiler are running 100% true). You can switch on the immersion using the furthest switched spur away from you in that picture. The immersion has its own thermostat (visible if you remove the black cap on top of the element) so will self regulate if you leave it switched on.
A rigged electric supply is the only of making the immersion cheaper, but that ofcourse isn't kosher.
Lagging the pipes in the cupboard may help to recover some of the heat lost, but I suspect you have a bigger problem elsewhere.
Sorry if I sound patronising by explaining every last detail, just trying to be clear.

[turbojolt]

power shower wont effect your gas bill, what else runs on gas in your house?

[mowgli]

burgo, is it your own place or rented? there are some enviro grants available, it might be worth seeing what's about

[Dan Stanley]

How about shutting off that seperate boiler in your garage, since your not using it. See if it has its on gas pipe shut off valve. That'll help eliminate another possibilty, it could have a leak and you not notice due to ventilation out in the garage.

[turbojolt]

How about shutting off that seperate boiler in your garage, since your not using it. See if it has its on gas pipe shut off valve. That'll help eliminate another possibilty, it could have a leak and you not notice due to ventilation out in the garage.


from what ive seen him write before his gas safe certificate says there are no leaks, its a hard one to call, but i still say his meter is running fast if he never experienced these problems in a similar sized and equipped house (double glazed, insulated etc,,)

[willb]

If you have a really old gas guzzling boiler, a card top up meter, plus someone in your house with the heating on all day and night, then you can use £30 a week !!!!!! What Make and model s your boiler ?

[brainsnova]

Its a baxi solo 3

[burgo]

The boiler is crap, rated D apparently lol and the windows are double glazed but old but I still dont see this accounting for three times as much as the last place.
The boiler in the garage isnt connected, gas pipe is capped off and everything is gas basically. Gas cooker, showers run off the hot water not electric.

I've rang eon and they dont appear to give a **** but why would they with all the money they are getting from me.

[brainsnova]

It will be cheaper to sit in the car lol

[burgo]

It will be cheaper to sit in the car lol
Not if I have to have it running, zaf gsi's love fuel

[Graeme]

Our gas has always been £30 since the price increase, looking forward to the good weather again

[Edd]

Did you have a combi in your old place?
Is your Mrs home all day with children?

£30 sounds bout right to me

[Andy]

When i view rented houses the 1st thing i look at is what heating system it uses,i have crossed houses off a list for having crap gas and water ssytems before,they just drain money.
£30 is too much,far too much.
At a 2bed bungalow we were paying £120 a month gas AND electric and ended up in credit by 100quid when we moved.

[Edd]

First thing I did at our new place was rip out the tank and all that crap and fit a combi

With a tank set up you just cain energy

[Andy]

With a tank set up you just cain energy
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article94909.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/image-11-for-48-hours-03-12-11-gallery-949770623.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=cain+dingle&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=nb4ObX4BMvfeJM&tbnid=iv0f80Gwi0le9M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Ftv%2Ftv-news%2Femmerdale-interview-jeff-hordley-on-cain-1457796&ei=s98MUeb5Fqet0QXU1YHwAg&bvm=bv.41867550,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNFShXA3nS210HAcv42SC7nPqvwcYA&ust=1359884581581718)
lol

[Stuart]

First thing I did at our new place was rip out the tank and all that crap and fit a combi

With a tank set up you just cain energy


Combis are just awful :( when I get the chance I'm fitting a system boiler and a tank.

[Edd]

Combis are just awful :( when I get the chance I'm fitting a system boiler and a tank.

Guess you don't give a fcuk how much you waste on energy

[Stuart]

Guess you don't give a fcuk how much you waste on energy

I do.... I also like a shower and bath to fill up in less time than it take to explain to you how removing an oem nova Arb is not dangerous lol.
Modern tanks are well insulated and will do the job fine. I will also add an electric system boiler too for overnight top ups and emergency use.

[Andy]

Why are combi's awful?!
Why do you think theyre REPLACING that caveman setup you want stuart lol

[Stuart]

All combis are unreliable as funk, they won't 'save' you much money in the long run if you factor in install costs, and the water flow is just rubbish. I've got our combi to a point where its tolerable but that's it.
I want mains pressure hot water and heating it up really won't use more than heating it on the fly.

[Edd]

I do.... I also like a shower and bath to fill up in less time than it take to explain to you how removing an oem nova Arb is not dangerous lol.
Modern tanks are well insulated and will do the job fine. I will also add an electric system boiler too for overnight top ups and emergency use.

lol lol lol you going to rip out all your lights and use candles as well?

[Stuart]

LEDs ftw.

I do understand energy in/out of a heating system as that's what I do for vehicles lol it's easier and less energy to maintain a temperature than to raise something from cold.

[Edd]

All combis are unreliable as funk, they won't 'save' you much money in the long run if you factor in install costs, and the water flow is just rubbish. I've got our combi to a point where its tolerable but that's it.
I want mains pressure hot water and heating it up really won't use more than heating it on the fly.

Unreliable? No idea where you get that from tbh

I have great pressure with a combi, just as much as when I used to have a shower pump,sounds like you got something wrong somewhere

[Stuart]

Even on the spangly "top end" combis the flow is poor (aka the same as the spec for mine within 5%) never had good flow in any house with a combi so its not just this one.

[Andy]

At our old house the flow was garbage,used to take ages to fill the bath.
But i liked the fact i could get a bath when i wanted,not being dictated by a stupid fukkin tank.

[turbojolt]

stuart your a mentalist lol


if you want to go to all the effort find somewhere you can nick coal or get it for dirt cheap and install a solid fuel boiler, there relible as my birds mood swings.

[Stuart]

Lol, a pellet burner would be ace :)

[turbojolt]

you can get them little free standing flued one, but i wouldnt recommend one in a house with small kids


they kick out some propper heat!!!

[meritlover]

LEDs ftw.
it's easier and less energy to maintain a temperature than to raise something from cold.

not if you have to maintain 35l of water at 85 deg for one bath a week. But if you are constantly running a hot tap to rinse a cup on and off, then the combi wont be getting a chance to get up to temp and constantly lighting and shutting down which is inefficient. It depends on the conditions the boiler is being used for.

The energy needed to raise one bath full of water from ambient to 85 deg is the same regardless of whether its heated instantaneously or in a cylinder. Any large surface area (i.e a water tank) is going to dissipate heat. It might be easier to control as any (large heat sink mass is), but its not going to take 'less' energy.

re water pressure on combi's, the pressure IS mains, its the flow that drops due to pressure drop across the exchanger.

Burgo, how many units of gas are you using a month? its easier to compare units than it is prices due to the differences in tariffs.

[burgo]

Ive noticed something else. The little red pump to the top right of the cylinder is permanently running even when the heating is off. Why is this?

[mrT]

Im sure its a pump, shouldn't be running though unless heating is on, well thats what mine does and its the same set up as you have

[mowgli]

cos they usually run all the time if they are switched on. i'm guessing the controls for this system are a bit quaint at best.

[burgo]

cos they usually run all the time if they are switched on. i'm guessing the controls for this system are a bit quaint at best.
Considering it had packed up all together this morning your guess would be correct

[mowgli]

i can't remember, is this a rented place?? if yes, ring the agent up & tear one off them

[burgo]

I have, engineer coming out tomorrow. Ive got it working by putting it in constant which suggests the thermostat is dud