Nova one piece front ends

[Gareth_C]

Hi all I've been looking at getting a one piece f/g front for my next project. I've spoke to Chris @ cmc and I was going to use my current nova to make the mould but the expensive part. Would anybody else be interested in a one piece clam to lower costs etc.
Cheers Gareth

[maddogdaz666]

What the cost of one? And what front end woul it be? Mk1 Mk2 GSi GTE Snowplough?
I would be interested for a future project.

[Gareth_C]

It would mk2 gsi with 100mm wide wings mate and the initial cost is down to numbers the mould is looking of costs above 1k

[Mike]

mould is looking of costs above 1k

wtf.

[mowgli]

surely someone already makes something similar for the hot rod/oval racers

[Gareth_C]

wtf.

That's what I was told by Chris does that not sound correct mike

[Gareth_C]

surely someone already makes something similar for the hot rod/oval racers

I have had a quick google nothing in depth

[Mike]

That's what I was told by Chris does that not sound correct mike

16 hours labour @ £10 p/hour = £160
2 metre 100g CSM @ £2.25 sq/m = £4.50
15 metre 450g CSM @ £2.10 sq/m = £31.50 (15m is pure over estimet)
10kg tooling gel coat @ £49.95 per 5kg = £100
25kg Polyester resin @ £58.00 = £58.00 (25g more then enough!)
Assorted extra (brushs, nuts, bolts, flange matierial) £40 (over estimet)

Total = £394 +VAT.

Obviously, without some precise measurements above is a basic speculation based on a general grp (polyester made) mould. 16 labour hours qouted includes build time, trim & fit & also a clean, seal & release leaving the mould ready for a layup.

EDIT 2: And before anyone starts moaning, Im not trying to take this work on, far from it infact as Im lazy, dont have the time & really CBA too either lol as Im busy doing other things as it is.

[mowgli]

mike, £10/h is a bit on the cheap side, for chargeable, it would be double that at least.
so £550+vat is probably nearer the mark

[Mike]

mike, £10/h is a bit on the cheap side, for chargeable, it would be double that at least.
so £550+vat is probably nearer the mark

£10 p/hour is dogshÃ*t cheap for composite work. But for working from home itll do me, as I have no overheads to cover. 160 quid for 16 hours of pish easy work (IMO that is.) Obviouisly its only easy when you know what your doing mind.

EDIT: And all matierial prices qouted are taken direct from the suppliers I use with no mark up on them at all. High tooling price means no work. Cost price tooling & profit on part gets work in this business.

[16xe_chris]

16 hours labour @ £10 p/hour = £160
2 metre 100g CSM @ £2.25 sq/m = £4.50
15 metre 450g CSM @ £2.10 sq/m = £31.50 (15m is pure over estimet)
10kg tooling gel coat @ £49.95 per 5kg = £100
25kg Polyester resin @ £58.00 = £58.00 (25g more then enough!)
Assorted extra (brushs, nuts, bolts, flange matierial) £40 (over estimet)

Total = £394 +VAT.

Obviously, without some precise measurements above is a basic speculation based on a general grp (polyester made) mould. 16 labour hours qouted includes build time, trim & fit & also a clean, seal & release leaving the mould ready for a layup.

EDIT 2: And before anyone starts moaning, Im not trying to take this work on, far from it infact as Im lazy, dont have the time & really CBA too either lol as Im busy doing other things as it is.

WTF!!

16hrs to make a full mould of the front end!!! your having a laugh! Every hole/cervis has to be plugged/filled.

25kg of resin to do the full front end in at least 5 layers of glass LMAO

And the price quoted was for moulding plus the first one back out.

[Mike]

WTF!!

16hrs to make a full mould of the front end!!! your having a laugh! Every hole/cervis has to be plugged/filled.

25kg of resin to do the full front end in at least 5 layers of glass LMAO

And the price quoted was for moulding plus the first one back out.

Chris, itll be a piece of pish mould & you know it. You'd only need to plug every opening IF it was gonna be an infused part. Panel gaps are piece of pish to erase aswell. Come on, surely you'd know that. 3 plys of 450g CSM, jobbed.

Hell, Ive made FARRRRRRRRRR more complex moulds from prepreg carbon in less time. Fair enough they spent longer in a clave on cure but thats irrelevant in this case.

[16xe_chris]

I will still have to plug the bonnet gaps, headlight gaps, grill gaps, bumper gaps etc etc

There's no way it can be done in 16hrs lol

3 layers it will flex like a good en so it will need braces added to the external side to stop the mould flexing and deforming.

[16xe_chris]

Pre preg carbon is easy lol no mess just a bit of pressure and an over ha ha

[Mike]

I will still have to plug the bonnet gaps, headlight gaps, grill gaps, bumper gaps etc etc

There's no way it can be done in 16hrs lol

3 layers it will flex like a good en so it will need braces added to the external side to stop the mould flexing and deforming.

Bonnet, headlights, grill gap would be piece of pish. Build the mould off a complete car with the panels still mounted to it. Why wouldnt it be possible in 16 hours, its not as if its gonna take 5 hours to double gel coat it & another 11 hours to wet lay up (at a speculative guess!) maybe 15 linear metre of CSM is it.

RE: Bracing. 2x2 sawn pine is your friend.

[Gareth_C]

I hope this hasn't started upset I was looking to see if there was the possibility of a group buy

[Mike]

Pre preg carbon is easy lol no mess just a bit of pressure and an over ha ha

If you want a dogshÃ*t tool that'll crack at 90psi yeah.

[Nobby]

lol

[Edd]

lol jeez Mike if it's easy as you say crack on and turn them out cheaper. :p

Sounds like your trying to have a go at someone trying to make a living. :confused:

[Mike]

lol jeez Mike if it's easy as you say crack on and turn them out cheaper. :p

Sounds like your trying to have a go at someone trying to make a living. :confused:

Mate, Im a lazy mofo for a start. And GM bits aint my thing, I dabble a lot in old Ford gear & supply a fair amount of small business with parts. And its not as if Im short of cash & need the money either.

Having a go, far from it. Answering Gareth's qeustion of "does this not sound right" is more like it.

Dont get me wrong, Id want the money, but Im too much of a lazy mofo to work for it lol why you think I declined a Forum Contributor position & let Chris take the pue instead :thumb:

[8valve-craig]

Colin Smith (Nova rally) used to have one.

Might be worth following that line of enquiry first, as the mould may still be out there.

[Gareth_C]

Right spoke to Chris and if 5 people order then the cost is going to be £500 each that will be a one piece front with a mk2 gsi front and the wide wing kit. ALS talk of trying add twin lights as well.
Cheers

[16xe_chris]

Was this the one you were thinking about?

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q496/16xe_chris/4EDBDC0A-673A-4378-B1E8-FE46CD01476C-3004-0000035E4C2998D7.jpg

[Hobbit]

I'm intersted in the idea, but not till the middle of next year though so cant commit to a group buy. :(

[Gareth_C]

Yeah pretty much Chris the general from Facebook is one piece including the bonnet

[16xe_chris]

No worries mate, the pic above was Colin's old one lol

[8valve-craig]

Yeah thats it. Think it was kevlar, remember it coming up for sale last year.

Lets not forget that anyone buying one will either need a very big van or a trailer to collect.

[Edd]

Was this the one you were thinking about?

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q496/16xe_chris/4EDBDC0A-673A-4378-B1E8-FE46CD01476C-3004-0000035E4C2998D7.jpg

Hasn't Colin got that fitted on his hillclimb Nova ATM?

[heds]

im up for one, i very nearly had that one piece but it was after colin sold it the next owner tried to sell it on.

[Jonlem]

TBH £500 is very cheap, even at a grand its cheap really. Charging £10 p/h for specialist work is ridiculous, overheads or not.

[16xe_chris]

Edd, Colin is running carbon panels matey along with some more carbon aero parts made by me which will be unveiled when he's ready.

And Jonlem I have to spread the love before giving it to you again lol

[16xe_chris]

Lets not forget that anyone buying one will either need a very big van or a trailer to collect.

Delivery can be arranged as I have a very large van, always a solution to a problem lol

[16v Nova Kev]

Would there be much Benifit to a one piece than just buying all sepperate

[blue_peg_16v]

Would there be much Benifit to a one piece than just buying all sepperate

The speed to remove it for work on the front end to change suspension settings etc at track days bit hard core for road use IMO but would be very cool

[mowgli]

for road use, won't it affect shell structure & invoke the IVA test ????

[camels toe]

No as long as you only remove the removeable panels and not cut into the monoque you`ll be fine.Wouldnt like to have a crash with a fg front end though.
Tbh all this talk of iva tests is alot of internet bull****e.I know what the rules say but have you actually heard of anyone being pulled in for modding they`re trans tunnel yet? Vosa/dvla have they`re hands full as it is without flagging and testing every car thats ever being modded.

[Mike]

Charging £10 p/h for specialist work is ridiculous, overheads or not.

Exactly why I get so much work from small business's.

Keep the tooling price low & the profit on part will follow. Not that GRP is a "specialist" trade though. Be lucky to get £12 p/h as a PAYE GRP laminator at most places in the midlands. Admittadly the charge out rate would be double (£24p/h) but Im not a greedy mofo so undercutting everyone else becomes easy.

Method in the madness brother.

[Benn]

for road use, won't it affect shell structure & invoke the IVA test ????

A few cars on here should have them anyway... No one is gonna go willingly looking for it to be done....

[mowgli]

/\ more than a few.... like all the ones with the bulkhead removed, & then all the ones with removeable front panels, and then all the ones with turreted rear coilovers too for good measure, oh, and the ones with cut out tyre wells too.....

[Benn]

/\ more than a few.... like all the ones with the bulkhead removed, & then all the ones with removeable front panels, and then all the ones with turreted rear coilovers too for good measure, oh, and the ones with cut out tyre wells too.....

Yeah, it doesn't take much to need one. But then out of the 10 points you need a non std engine is -3 so...

[burgo]

What about mine mowgli? Lol

[Benn]

Huge body mods are only 2 or 3 points (like if you cut the roof off)

[mowgli]

well, burgo, as you sort of did yours a few years ago & its been thru mot tests (i believe), i'd assume it gets by as a pre iva car.

the one car that astounds me is that red victor drag racer.. apart from the badges & reg plates, there isn't an original piece on the car, yet it is still allegedly the same car

[camels toe]

Any cutting of the monoque you loose all your points.Its an instant test.Cut the roof off and its iva time.
To get one through as pre iva you have to have photographic proof the mods were done before whatever date.You basically need aload of photos or a mag feature but its very hard to proove.
Totally agree with mowgli about rr3 its a complete joke. Thats the kind of car that needs to have the test if he wants to use it on the road and i cant beleive after all the attention it gets they havent pulled him in.
Just goes to show though that all the internet panicing about iva is just hype.Who`s there to catch you? Ive driven modded cars for the last 20 years and have only being pulled over twice.If you didnt have the internet you`d know nothing about it and build what you like and not worry. They havent the means to test every single modded car could you imagine the que if every one booked one?

[Benn]

the one car that astounds me is that red victor drag racer.. apart from the badges & reg plates, there isn't an original piece on the car, yet it is still allegedly the same car

We talked of that last time (me and my mates) as it's a hell of alot of custom car to still be standard enough to pass an mot..lol

[burgo]

Yes it's been mot'd twice. They even charged the logged body style to estate for me lol. As far as a mot is concerned they can only give an advisory for it lol

[mowgli]

how is the old estate these days?

[burgo]

Dunno. I left it in a council garage. I assume it's still there

[mowgli]

strewth.. you're brave

[burgo]

They would do well to take it. No engine and no ns hub lol

[mowgli]

bit OTT on the security there burgo lol

[Benn]

Dunno. I left it in a council garage. I assume it's still there

I like how you think.

[Mazz]

lol @ Burgo! Ace

[Southie]

Mike, for £10 an hour labour you'd be better off working at maccies lol

[Mike]

Mike, for £10 an hour labour you'd be better off working at maccies lol

Doubt that lol

I also have a very good, full time day job aswell, that pays considerably more then £10 p/hour ;)

[Southie]

Well £10 is only about £3.50 above minimum wage so your under quoting fiberglassing skills IMO.

[Mike]

Well £10 is only about £3.50 above minimum wage so your under quoting fiberglassing skills IMO.

If garage A charges £50 for an MOT & garage B charges £35 for an MOT which one would you use.

[Hobbit]

If garage A charges £50 for an MOT & garage B charges £35 for an MOT which one would you use.

Garage C, (matey down the pub...)

[Mike]

Garage C, (matey down the pub...)

Exactly. Cheapest option for the same thing.

There are plenty of one man band & semi retired laminators that advertise in Yell, newspapers, car mags etc that'll do small jobs & low volume work for as little as £6/7 an hour.

Business is business an all that caper.

[16xe_chris]

Not many one man bands have a premis where they can bring someone's pride and joy inside and keep it secure!

[Southie]

If garage A charges £50 for an MOT & garage B charges £35 for an MOT which one would you use.

Which ever was the most trust worthy and better known, if your wanting something doing right you'll always research the company before paying out and not always go for the cheapest option.

Thing is Mike, I know Chris very well and have seen plenty of things he's made so I can vouch for his products over and over again, I've never seen anything you've made in person or tbh even a picture, so if I was to choose your cheaper option of making me some parts I know which I'd choose.

Edit: Sorry I lie, I've seen that carbon walking stick you made lol

[burgo]

Think you need to add mike on facebook southie

[Southie]

Think you need to add mike on facebook southie

I'd need a Facebook account first lol

[paul james]

If garage A charges £50 for an MOT & garage B charges £35 for an MOT which one would you use.

I go to a garage for my MOT's that charges more than others, but I can trust them and that has a value. I've had dodgy mot's before from other garages, passed a car on something it should have failed, failed on made up faults that wern't there to try and get extra money for bogus repairs etc.

Since chris is running this as a professional business, then its going to cost him more to do than some guy in his garden shed.

[Benn]

Do you not stay with the car while it's being MOT?

[Spudly]

Do you not stay with the car while it's being MOT?




I didnt when i got my nova mot'd, dropped it off and went home/got a lift home to pick up the funds to tax it once the mot was out of the way lol



Tester is a very close friend and i trust him implicitly, and @ £20 for the test, was a fookin bargain too (plus id spent many hours on/in/over/under my nova in the preceeding weeks, and knew it wouldnt fail:thumb:

[8valve-craig]

I would never leave a car i cared about at a test centre. Friend or no friend.

[MK999]

Thing is Mike, I've never seen anything you've made in person or tbh even a picture, so if I was to choose your cheaper option of making me some parts I know which I'd choose.

http://adambarrywellington.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/02-1300479019.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/180uap6gtf4v9jpg/original.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeDY2y30273qBFVAzAyk4_N7uzfTkHR 8vwc5_TQAdP1Jz7e_H2 (Diffuser)

As well as roof vents I've seen him jump up and down on without cracking!

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those Mike, think I might have the wrong year of AM DBR tbh! Sure your diffuser looked a bit gnarlier for that :d

[Spudly]

I would never leave a car i cared about at a test centre. Friend or no friend.





Why, if you know theyre a good friend and wont take the piss, whats the problem?

[Southie]

As well as roof vents I've seen him jump up and down on without cracking!

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those Mike, think I might have the wrong year of AM DBR tbh! Sure your diffuser looked a bit gnarlier for that :d
That's some impressive products made where he works at. :cool:

[8valve-craig]

Why, if you know theyre a good friend and wont take the piss, whats the problem?

I just personally dont trust anyone. Maybe my biggest flaw.

Did see my mates wife's S2 Avante come past me at well over 100mph whilst it was in for an MOT not so long back though, so that could be influencing my decision.

[Andy]

Its not just mot places though.
A lad i know (ex member on here actually) took his nova turbo to get an alarm fitted,picked it up with 30 odd extra miles on it.Ridiculous.

[Benn]

Why, if you know theyre a good friend and wont take the piss, whats the problem?

Real friend? Or some one you know and are friendly with?

As years ago the place that took my Nova for a drive while it was being mot'ed i was friendly with, knew all of them, two guys i went to school with.
They are normally the ones that say " ah he wont mind if i drive it..."


I would never leave a car i cared about at a test centre. Friend or no friend.

Tbh i've very much the same. But if i there i don't mind if they drive it, Craig (saloony on here) is my mot tester, i let him drive it.. Even after he dented the wing (my fault for having such a low car, with no steering lock) and play test the boost/chav valve while out testing the brakes when i first built it..

[Jon_nova1]

i left my car at the MOT station and told my friend he could take it for a spin, i went to collect it and he said its not boosting properly and he suspects the exhaust is too restrictive. Personally i don't see a problem if its someone you trust not to break it

[Mazz]

Not really on topic anymore, but anyone remember this? :

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=747916&hw=roadhawk&nmt=If%20wr%20stopping%20bashing%20VXR8s%20and%20R Os%20how%20about%20garages?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZbQ_KOGBcQ

[turbojolt]

how much would a 1 piece weigh compared to a std front end? (roughly)

[Southie]

how much would a 1 piece weigh compared to a std front end? (roughly)

PM Chris he'll have the parts separate to give you an idea ;)

[16xe_chris]

how much would a 1 piece weigh compared to a std front end? (roughly)

A hell of a lot lighter lol

Not too sure on exact kg figures but it would be a good lot of weight removed, I would probably infuse them to make them lighter than normal wet lay fibreglass, I have allowed for a single skin of Kevlar as well to reduce flex and make them stronger.

[mowgli]

when i moved back from oxford to hinckley, i sent my old a reg 1600 hatch into a 'trusted' garage for a set of braided hoses to be fitted followed by a MOT.

as part of their normal service, they offered to bring the car back, so that was ok....

the son of the boss brought it back grinning like the cheshire cat & raving to my mrs about how fast it went on its road test...35miles of road test..

then for the next few weeks, we had innumerate attempts to nick it, kids knocking on the door cos someone told them it was for sale & could they have a test drive etc, the only other person who knew what it was like was the garage lad.... we were in the habit of removing components to make sure it wasn't taken. they got as far as popping the lock out.. but nothing more.