View Full Version : mowgli finally posted a wip thread
ok, its been a very long time since i actually had a camera near a car i was working on....
i will be posting pics in the morning of the corsa sport 1.6 16v that i bought off turbojolt..
its not going to be pretty... i'd like to meet the last person who worked in this engine, as i have access to castrating irons....
laters
Didnt tj do the headgasket on it? Lol
Afaik he rounded a head bolt and left it at that lol
well...i've never seen such roughness done to a 'running' engine....
sorry john.. the nova wip comes after the 31st, when she gets SORNed
ok, wip thread proper
so i bought this from tj's missus (frankly, she could do much better, but there you go)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0013.jpg
you'll note tj smirking....
well, i got it back to the yard & in the finest traditions of car work, i dumped it in the workshop for a fortnight and did nothing.
so yesterday afternoon, i stuck it over the pit & started to undo everything in the proper order...
note to mr jolt... life is a lot simpler if you take all the other bits off before loosening the head bolts...
so aux belt off..
outer cambelt cover off..
crank pulley off... torx bolt looked ropey, but it moved ok (see pic)
timed up engine...
next stop the cambelt tensioner... it was a tight as a schoolboys ar$e when he found out his mum was taking him to a manchester shopping centre for his uniform... so i twisted a t30 bit & it wouldn't budge..
hammer & cold chisel time. after 1/2 hr, it moved.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0028.jpg
then i stripped it back to the rear cam cover & 2 more little screws wouldn't budge...
now, the infamous last head bolt...i put my spanner on & twisted half the head off... centre punched it &
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0030.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0031.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0032.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0033.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0034.jpg
it took about an hour, mostly finding drill bits & sharpening them up on the bench grinder...
you'll note the end of our vacuum cleaner pipe, i also used a large magnet wrapped in a workshop glove to clean out 99% of the swarf.. this head is going to get the full cleanup treatment anyway, but the camshaft is surprisingly magnetic too..
the rest of the bolt came out by hand
mr haynes makes no mention of how to get past an aircon pump & pipework, so that was a laff......
manifolds off in situ & a new cut to my hand..
anyway, the block:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0035.jpg
a quick scrape off & it looks like its ok
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0038.jpg
the head, you'll notice the cam cover...lol
i'll be drilling the tight screws out later
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0037.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0036.jpg
then i noticed this:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0039.jpg
so i looked at the gasket to find it was put back together with it before!!!! rough bast4rding bodging amateur sh!tbags
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/Photo0040.jpg
so i'm going to strip the head & take it to my local engineers to see if its saveable....
if not i'm open to offers on a decent s/hand head
Wasting your money getting the head rebuild, they're cheap anyway
Wasting your money getting the head rebuild, they're cheap anyway
thats what i was thinking tbh, but then you run the risk of the replacement needing work too
... and mr jolt has thrown away quite a few bolts too.....:mad:
i may end up finding a whole engine just for parts..
the strange long plastic intake pipe with the L shaped bit has been damaged & badly repaired with mastic
Markd89
26-08-12, 10:25 AM
there was a fully recon head on ebay not so long back, was on £40 and had no bids, it may come up forsale again i have it saved in favourites so if i see it again i'll let you know bud
Does my farting head in people who bodge, it takes more time to bodge than to do it properley! Well atleast your "on it" now mate lol
there was a fully recon head on ebay not so long back, was on £40 and had no bids, it may come up forsale again i have it saved in favourites so if i see it again i'll let you know bud
any chance you could copy the listing no. & pm me it??
Does my farting head in people who bodge, it takes more time to bodge than to do it properley! Well atleast your "on it" now mate lol
its the ludicrous overtightening thats been really pissing me off... its not necessary, and never has been.. this idiot (whoever it was) has been round wrecking all the torx drive fixings, i'm almost certain that they didn't actually have any torx spanners & relied on allen keys & normal hex sockets..
turbojolt
26-08-12, 12:17 PM
i will have a look about for any other bolts that might be about, you still under the impression they used a windy gun on the head bolts then?
I'd be more inclined to get your existing head fixed, at least you'll know its a good one
i will have a look about for any other bolts that might be about, you still under the impression they used a windy gun on the head bolts then?
well it takes some sort of idiot to manage to do that to a stretch bolt... the other overtightened ones i managed to remove have no signs of loctite on them, so i despair of the mechanics alleged skills....
any road up, any news on your returning nova??
mk1nova_rich
26-08-12, 02:22 PM
Windy guns are OK, its the incompetent ****er using it thats always the problem...using the same torque settings on a trim screw as they would on a wheel bolt lol
but I'd much rather use a decent ratchet set any day, at least you can feel how tight things are etc.
Personally Mowgli I would (not buy from turbojolt) take the head for skimming to see if it will clean up (dependent on price) then go from there
I'd be more inclined to get your existing head fixed, at least you'll know its a good one
i'm just going to see what the engineer says. he does excellent work & i've used them for 25 odd years, so he can decide for me.
the rest of the head looks ok so far, the valves look original & straight.. i'll have arm ache after lapping in all 16 of them
there's a snapped off cam cover bolt, but that really isn't going to put up a fight
novalovingned
26-08-12, 10:04 PM
I know exactly what your going through! When I bought the daily Corsa Sri some weapon had tried to do a head gasket change him self. I had to rip it apart and re-do everything! Good luck sorting it out.
thanks.. it'll get it sorted.. i'm a spiteful stubborn old git when i need to be & an engine has never beaten me before..
my biggest pain will be ordering all the replacememt fixings, as i don't have a local gm dealer any more, the nearest is about 12 miles away & crap.. so i'll be annoying the local hardware supplies store, or even going to the scrappers.
Mike, what engine is it? I have a friend replacing his corsa engine (unsure of what it is) but I can find out & if it's suitable rob a few parts off him?
Edit: just read OP and noticed its a 1.6.
mk1nova_rich
26-08-12, 10:47 PM
Try AutoVaux Mowgli...their website is useless but give them a ring, they know their stuff and PNG members get 10% discount
its a w reg 1.6, so iirc its an x16xe
if its being scrapped, i'd be interested for the bits
jeez, this not finished yet? lol
its a bank holiday....the head will be in at clayfield & halls at 8:30 in the morning...
well, young john is having a look at it.. he reckons its easy enough to skim & get the damage out, but wasn't so sure about the 6mm screws for the timing cover, that i had to drill the heads off.. they are solid into the casting.
when i say young john... he is about 70, mrs hall runs the front counter.. she is about 90, and she is the nicest person in the world.. and she knows her engines too.
oh, and after a steam cleaning, the top of no.4 is pitted & has had 2 new inlet valves.
do a baxter on it!
it looks like someone already did... lol
the head isn't back.. the 2 screws that held the timing cover on are causing grief..they were too long, and bottomed out in the threaded holes, and seized... looks like helicoils.....
I have a x16xe head thats just sitting there if needed, dont want a lot for it its just taking up room now, pm me if interested.
Why waste all this effort on a scrap engine in a car whenyou could have bought a scrap rngine out of a car for about £5?
turbojolt
29-08-12, 07:58 PM
and who is to say the new engine wont have even more problems?
Well, you'd be buying it as spares so you'd expect them all. Hence me saying buy a scrap engine
Why waste all this effort on a scrap engine in a car when you could have bought a scrap engine out of a car for about £5?
i can completely understand your point, but i have checked out the rest of the engine as best as i can & i still think getting my man to sort the head out for £40+vat is cheap compared to buying a head, paying the courier, then getting that skimmed.
i'm a devil you know sort of person
Why waste all this effort on a scrap engine in a car whenyou could have bought a scrap rngine out of a car for about £5?lol
right. after finding out my valve compressor won't fit 16v heads, so i hit it with a 9" grinder & the welder, stripping it & cleaning it & lapping valves & then finding out that 16v collets are fiddly little sods & strangely magnetic..... but it got put back together. then i finally started fitting things back on the corsa.
i've hit a snag with the cam caps... what sealant does everyone use on the end caps???
sealant? the end caps are under the rocker cover?
they are also the cam end seal housings, and the haynes says use sealant... i was surprised too, but the idiots who did it in the 1st place (to replace 6 bent valves, cam belt stripped as a guess) used 3 different colours of sealant & spalshed it round like henry cooper on that 70's brut aftershave ad.....but oddly enough, they put none where it should actually go.....
anyone know who zebedee engineering are??? cos whoever they are, avoid them
turbojolt
09-09-12, 08:33 PM
fooking hell im glad i gave up on it now lol
anyway, a decent evening on it & it should be a runner now... the more i play with this engine, the more i'm getting to understand it's differences to my beloved e16se...
so i'm working on a design for something way better than a powerbox (what is with all those long bolts thru the plenum anyway??)
and the 2-1 pipe has a massive restrictive joint, so that will be getting looked at along with that damned cat.....i think i'll be raiding the local exhaust shop's skip to make an unboltable decat pipe...
so i should be able to get some free hp out of it before its (potentially)inevitable swap into my nova.
fooking hell im glad i gave up on it now lol
i wish i'd seen it running cos i really can't imagine how it did.....
young john (who is nearly at retiring age), the engineer was on about getting a 20 thou shim plate if he couldn't get the massive dent out of the face, so i was damned pleased he got it sorted..
turbojolt
09-09-12, 08:55 PM
i went against all my instincts buying the car tbh mate, i thought i could smell fuel on the oil cap and the guy selling it i didn't like him, should have listened to my gut feeling but it did run and it did run well (up untill it didn't lol) was a quick little car, and she loved it, never mind you live and you learn
what do you mean, 'went against your instincts'?????
you have been playing with novas & puntos.... you'd think you would be well qualified to pick a sh!tter
turbojolt
09-09-12, 09:22 PM
what do you mean, 'went against your instincts'?????
you have been playing with novas & puntos.... you'd think you would be well qualified to pick a sh!tter
i blame abby, all the other cars we went to see she hated and after saving for nearly 4 years to get a car it had to be the right one (look wise), that corsa poped up for sale and she loved it, was only down the road in henor aswell, went and had a look and she was so excited about finally finding a car she was happy with, i went against everything (not alot) i know and let her buy it
it served her well in all fairness nearly 5 months worth of motoring she got out of it and it wasnt mega expensive to begin with
it's not the prettiest, but its good enough for my needs, and the engine will be ok.
i was initially impressed with the crash repair, but the bit that reacted looks like an iceland lattice pie.....
don't worry, i have no intentions of washing it.... lol
turbojolt
09-09-12, 09:27 PM
you still going to have it ready for the 16th then mate
thats the intention.... then i can have some more decent lasagne & chips followed by 4 hrs of talking novas
Post a pic Mike? i can't ever remember using sealer on mine. Is there a routed out bit for the sealer to sit in?
its simply 2 bits of ally, and the cap has lots of drillings & oil passages to lube the cam. i reckon i'll need something like the stuff for sealing an 8v cam carrier to the head.
Tbh, i'm surprised there are no white metal bearings at all, its just down to oil to keep it sorted...but it obviously works, cos the journals aren't worn on this one.
brainsnova
16-09-12, 02:30 PM
I also had bother removing the auto adjuster bolt and I used a normal bolt on fitting the new timing belt and the bottom pulley polished it up lol so there must be little clearance
well...... todays progress or lack of...
i discovered the head is actually a x16xel one... there are loads more drillings for the different rocker cover...
i also discovered that the former owners partner (she really could do a lot better lol) also bought a c16xe head gasket set...
outcome... rocker cover gasket won't fit rocker cover whic isn't exactly the best fit onto the head.....at least it explains the tons of mastic everywhere when i was stripping it.
i also now know where the problems all started & will be ordering a new coolant hose & thermostat along with a x16xe rocker gasket in the morning....
does anyone have the strange plastic pipe that goes behind the manifold on one of these??? they get thrown away when powerboxes get fitted...
ok, piccys of the head.... what is it???
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/mowglinova/023_zpsad5b5239.jpg
right.... so today i had a few hours to play with the engine....
replacement rocker cover on....
new thermostat fitted......
thought i'd fit the old shonky xe manifold until my home made powerbox gets made.....and it won't fit!!!!!!!!! FFFFFFFFFFSSSSS
the new cover is taller
so the powerbox is getting made no matter what..... so i can run the engine...
does anyone have any powerbox fitting instructions?? as i guess i need to blank off the egr shyte, sling the air pump & play with the vac hoses & all the seemingly random sensors.... also, what flexi hose do people use, as the rigid one has a maf sensor in it...
I used one off a c14se corsa b mike as that has the hole for the sensor.
edit in second pic down.
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?189074-C14se-inlet-manifold-loom-ecu-tb-injectors-and-throttle-cable.&highlight=
GIVE ME CHANCE FFS.....
seriously, my new plenum has arrived, so its cutting & welding time..
then i might be in a position to make it run...
if only i'd twigged it had the wrong head before investing so much time & coin into getting it sorted.......
turbojolt
27-10-12, 12:50 PM
your soon forget all them troubles when blasting around the lanes in it lol
Trust me, i'll be like a cork out of a bottle.. My nova has been sorned for 2 months too....
Oh, i'm planning not to send the log book off, so any tickets that come thru, can your mrs just burn them??? Lol lol lol
mowgli do you think one of them heads would fit on an 8v block, i.e 1.3?
well, a 1.4 would be a better bet, simply cos its newer & slightly larger bore for possible valve clearance, but i can't see too many big problems. the baby ecotec was a direct development from the 8v small block design
the only real issues that i can think of would be drillings/mouinting points for injection sensors & just how to fit the idlers & tensioners for the cambelt to the front of the block.
well, a 1.4 would be a better bet, simply cos its newer & slightly larger bore for possible valve clearance, but i can't see too many big problems. the baby ecotec was a direct development from the 8v small block design
the only real issues that i can think of would be drillings/mouinting points for injection sensors & just how to fit the idlers & tensioners for the cambelt to the front of the block.
had a 1.4 block but weighed it in lol valve clearance is one of the things i thought could be a problem also.
if i do it, it will be on carbs so dont have to worry about any sensors to do with that, & hadnt thought of that, ta! :)
you still need to make a spark though.. so you either try & source a manta style ohc dizzy drive (best of luck) which goes off the exh cam pulley with an extra belt.. but the rwd xe boys love them & they are rare.. or fit something like a megajolt, which needs a crank sensor.. its still doable.
you still need to make a spark though.. so you either try & source a manta style ohc dizzy drive (best of luck) which goes off the exh cam pulley with an extra belt.. but the rwd xe boys love them & they are rare.. or fit something like a megajolt, which needs a crank sensor.. its still doable.
hadnt thought of that either, had a heavy day yesterday so im thick as **** today lol will just have to get a head and go from there.
another issue you might want to look at is that 8v pistons have a dish & round cutouts for the vertical valves, whereas 16v ones are usually a flat top, possibly with small angled notches for the angled valves, the chamber size for the 16v is usually a lot bigger, so if fitting it to an 8v bottom end, you might end up with a really low cr.. when you really need a high cr..
i reckon trying to find a complete 1.4 or 1.6 16v complete engine from a corsa/astra/tigra with an f13 box might be a better starting point
another issue you might want to look at is that 8v pistons have a dish & round cutouts for the vertical valves, whereas 16v ones are usually a flat top, possibly with small angled notches for the angled valves, the chamber size for the 16v is usually a lot bigger, so if fitting it to an 8v bottom end, you might end up with a really low cr.. when you really need a high cr..
i reckon trying to find a complete 1.4 or 1.6 16v complete engine from a corsa/astra/tigra with an f13 box might be a better starting point
bought a head & looking at it the valves will end up very close to the bores but i'll have to see when it gets here, i would want to run the higher compression pistons anyway. if it doesnt work i can always go with my big valve e16 head and just skim it, all an experiment :)
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