View Full Version : Who said 911's "don't handle"?
BRoadGhost
17-07-12, 09:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDD8V9Liq8
This guy can drive ;)
8valve-craig
17-07-12, 09:26 PM
Amazing. 2.50, goes past the Lotus Cortina like its parked,
Cringe worthy tight squeeze around the E Type :/
Southie
17-07-12, 09:55 PM
I remember an Eau Rouge clip the other year, this first clip is normal speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhu13qp8Oc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This is F1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seget3zOj_8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Pistol Pete
17-07-12, 09:56 PM
^ aye, he was abit close!!
Surely the **** end constantly hanging out only proves that it doesn't handle, his cornering speeds were very rarely quicker than any of the other car.
BRoadGhost
18-07-12, 01:32 PM
Dafuq you on about burgo? His massive entry speed is what makes it oversteer; he's MILES faster than anyone else overall with that style of zero counter, utilising every ounce of life the tyres can give. If he didn't drive it at the limit constantly then he'd be as slow as every other bod on the circuit through the bends with it in shape.
steviegsi
19-07-12, 05:47 PM
Agree with burgo tbh.... IMO a better handling car would be going round quicker, without wrestling to keep the car straight. The fact that the driver has the ability to keep it pointing the right way is down to him, not the car. Very impressive though, love his gear changes.
That setup a peach for his driving style. Fair play, look a lot of fun.
Asa-James
19-07-12, 10:55 PM
i love that style with older cars, from old footage. just get the nose in the genral direction of the exit, and hold on :)
Are the peddles really oddly placed? Looks like his right leg is right over.. Are surely he's pushing it to push the back out on the corner but holding it so it still powers thru..?
BRoadGhost
20-07-12, 08:48 PM
With all due respect Stevie "handling" isn't about "going round quicker." In this instance he IS going round quicker than anyone else and doing it with a zero counter drift, showing what a monster it is. It absolutely proves the car "handles" imo because it's been built & set exactly right for the driver to have that degree of freedom driving it at and just over the limit.
Any car that can corner like that, out of shape AND hit every apex is nothing sort of epic.
The driver can handle that car very well but the thing handles like a pig. Please remember that oversteer doesn't equal great handling. Drifting is a SLOW way to get around a bend. A better handling car WILL get you around a track quicker. This is because and not limited to the driver being able to enter the corner with more confidence AND get the power down earlier, giving them a greater exit speed etc etc etc.
If you think this is a good handling car, I'm worried about your Nova.
steviegsi
21-07-12, 12:21 AM
With all due respect Stevie "handling" isn't about "going round quicker."
But from my, admittedly limited, understanding of the laws of physics, if the car wasn't sliding like a bsatard, and was able to maintain traction at those entry speeds it would go round quicker. But I understand where your coming from about it being controllable beyond the limits of grip, my point is if it handled better it wouldnt get out of shape to begin with. So I suppose we're both right to an extent.
davidfox280585
21-07-12, 08:24 AM
this is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZtFUJHFV0
id say the car handles like piece of ****, but the driver has talent lol
this is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZtFUJHFV0
Again if he went slower in and was more gentle with the throttle he'd be even quicker
Surely the **** end constantly hanging out only proves that it doesn't handle, his cornering speeds were very rarely quicker than any of the other car.
^What he said^
**** end constantly hanging out = lack of grip.
Lack of grip = Not handling!
BRoadGhost
22-07-12, 09:38 PM
Dar I don't think that car "handles like a pig" at all.
If oversteer at the limit doesn't equal "great handling" then does that mean understeer does? From what I'm seeing the car is balanced enough to zero counter through many corners. Fact is you wont see understeer in such a video as much as oversteer.
His style is not "SLOW" driving in that way and in fact it's recently been proved through time trials; 98-100% grip driving VS 100-102% racing drift and there was virtually nothing in it.
I don't think the driver is having any confidence issues. The car is behaving in such a way BECAUSE he's on the power earlier AND holding more into, than any pure grip driving would allow.
I 110% disagree with you :d
I 110% disagree with you :d
+Rep
from my viewing of this vid, its a classic track day & this bloke is a racer, whereas most of the other track users are absolute amateurs
from what i can tell, early 911's did get understeer, and with all that weight over the back axle, they had good traction, so to combat the understeer, they needed to get the back end out. the cars got a reputation at the time of being tail happy cos the amount of welly needed to get the back end out was almost enough to get it to spin, and drivers of the day were more used to their fast cars having engines in the front & light back ends.. nearly 50 years of development has helped a lot too.
than any pure grip driving would allow. so it dont handle then lol
turbojolt
23-07-12, 11:29 AM
thats me driving the caddy
This handles the same as the first video (back end steps out and needs correcting).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXOV7w_1lKI
Start watching around the 2:30 mark.
Note the video title!
BRoadGhost
31-07-12, 08:46 PM
Doesn't look like a classic track day to me at all. Seems way more like some sort of historic test day / race regulations and there's no way to prove / disprove who's giving it 100% or not.
I think people are misunderstanding a great handling car; something that is predictable at and just above the limit irrespective of grip.
krobinson
31-07-12, 08:50 PM
Modern 911's are of the best handling cars avaliable. Porsche have been perfecting the formula for years.
Love my 996 Gen 2 911 and although i'm aware of the weight of the engine, it's never been an issue so far.
Southie
31-07-12, 08:55 PM
Tbh Porsche must of perfected the handling by now, they've been making the dam thing for decades lol
krobinson
31-07-12, 08:57 PM
Since the 60's! Awesome cars!
Southie
31-07-12, 08:59 PM
Since the 60's! Awesome cars!
Lend me your blue LET and we'll see which comes out best Keith lol
krobinson
31-07-12, 09:32 PM
Oh the Nova is quicker for sure, but it tops out at 160mph, 911 will do 175 and go round a corner without killing me!
Southie
31-07-12, 09:39 PM
You didn't say no, when you next in England lol
911s are fast cars. ok..
but when the limit is reached, they had a reputation of changing ends rather quickly, as i previously said, cos most drivers of the age weren't used to a rearward weight bias.
i'm sure when the fwd revolution came along, there were lots of people understeering off, just like there are today...
but then, as we all know, what makes a car great on the track doesn't necessarily make it good on the road & vice versa
The 911 Turbo isnt nick named the widow maker for nothing.
yeah, well, they did have more lag than an immersion heater, then when the turbo came on it was rather brutal.. thats why the engineers stuck those crazy massive rear tyres on, in an effort to keep them on the road. the 996 onwards cars are radically different to the original ones though
krobinson
31-07-12, 11:07 PM
The 911 Turbo isnt nick named the widow maker for nothing.
The 911 Turbo is 4WD and actually not too bad. It's the GT2 is the "widow maker", as its 450bhp and RWD (996 form) and 500bhp+ rwd in 997 form. EPIC!!
i think moike was on about the old 70's whaletail 930 type
BRoadGhost
01-08-12, 04:37 PM
Well anywho I can't vouch for those who don't understand the layout of such a car & don't have the willingness to learn how to drive it.
The AC Cobra was known as a widow maker too and the engine was in the front. Why was it so dangerous? Because it's lightweight, RWD, but moreover the torque would be the root cause imo; the generic rich guy that bought one hasn't got a clue about how such loadings build up.
turbojolt
01-08-12, 04:51 PM
Well anywho I can't vouch for those who don't understand the layout of such a car & don't have the willingness to learn how to drive it.
The AC Cobra was known as a widow maker too and the engine was in the front. Why was it so dangerous? Because it's lightweight, RWD, but moreover the torque would be the root cause imo; the generic rich guy that bought one hasn't got a clue about how such loadings build up.
would have thought more people have died in evos and scoobys then 911's and cobra's but there meant to be some of the best handling cars about, 99% of car crashes do i dare say are from people driving beyond there ability's, be it in bad weather conditions or other wise
The 911 Turbo is 4WD and actually not too bad. It's the GT2 is the "widow maker", as its 450bhp and RWD (996 form) and 500bhp+ rwd in 997 form. EPIC!!
Every days a school day so they say.
this is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZtFUJHFV0
I want I want I want lol
Next project hmmmm
Well anywho I can't vouch for those who don't understand the layout of such a car & don't have the willingness to learn how to drive it.
The AC Cobra was known as a widow maker too and the engine was in the front. Why was it so dangerous? Because it's lightweight, RWD, but moreover the torque would be the root cause imo; the generic rich guy that bought one hasn't got a clue about how such loadings build up.
the cobra also had basically a prewar ladder chassis, and tyres in the early 60's were awful compared to the modern stuff...
there is a story about jim clark winning 4 f1 races with one set of tyres, the wear rates & grip were that bad, and most cars suffered high speed lift.
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