Increasing BHP

[Tiger13]

Hey all!, I am due to have a 1.6 gte engine fitted to my nova, I was wondering how can I increase the BHP and how high is it possible to take it?

Thanks!

[pikey1986]

the biggest gains will come from head work, im sure i read dans old engine was approx 140bhp but that was massively tuned and on carbs, ideally you'd need stand alone management to gain more than 15-20bhp

[Tiger13]

Ok thats cool could you eleborate a little on that like what parts are required? :-)

[C612DNM]

Start with a good cylinder head, a Blydenstein B or B+ (if you're lucky enough to find one as sadly Bill hasn't been with us for a few years now) - or speak to CNC Heads.
Then a cam - you have to make a decision here, do you want simple, reliable, or total power and a lifetime of tinkering/adjustment. For a road car, if you ever want to pass a MoT on emissions, you ain't going solid lifters!! So that leaves simple and reliable and I recommend a Kent NV062 and the associated valve springs/etc...
Now for the inlets - 40mm throttle bodies for road use, with Megasquirt or similar management. You could go to DTA management which is the dogs danglies.
Lift the compression to 10:1 - either by skimming and doing some calculations, or by getting some Cosworth Gp.A pistons (or copies of).
Balance the bottom end, lighten the flywheel, fit an uprated clutch.

Exhaust - BTB - tube manifold and system. Don't use the Ashley type, you will kiss goodbye to horsepower with one of those They haven't changed the design in years, and they were rubbbish 20 years ago - losing 8hp compared to a factory cast iron manifold. If you can't get Joe Ellis (BTB) to make one, then Simpson Exhausts are also canines marriage tackle!

And finally - fit steel rods (Arrow or similar). The standard ones make bids for freedom at over 150hp.

I reckon you should see 150-155hp with that setup.

If you want more. Prepare to $p£nd!! (if that lot above hasn't emptied your account).

I have a 1600 8V which showed 190hp on the dyno when it was mapped by Steve Greenauld. He was pleasantly surprised.

[mowgli]

and we are back in the realm of why not just fit an xe for the cost saving & insurance... which is a pity.

the e16se is a fine engine. you can play about with fitting other parts, like crank/rods/pistons from a z18xe to get an 1800 which will give you more grunt & decent high compression.

fit it & learn about it first and enjoy it for a while. the 1600 can surprise a lot of people with its stock performance, then start looking at playing with it later on

[thegingerwhinger]

the e16se is a fine engine. you can play about with fitting other parts, like crank/rods/pistons from a z18xe to get an 1800 which will give you more grunt & decent high compression.



can you explain more on this please?

[C612DNM]

I can agree 100% with those comments.

For a road car yes - stick a XE - even a Z18XE in there (nobody seems to want those - but they're better than a poke in the eye with a pointed stick!)

To get an engine like my race 1600 SE, expect to spend around £10K to get you there. That would either buy you a ready to go engine, or if you build your own, that would cover your development costs in building any amount of engines before you actually get there!!

[Stuart]

And then a big rebuild every few k miles of use lol

Dans old engine. Was a b+ head, 1650 rebore, Kent ast2 cam, 40's and 1.4 ignition and a btb exhaust and it was a nice bombproof 140-150 depending how happy the rollers were lol jim had a similar engine but with a piper bp300 cam which had approx the same net power but was a bit more of a fire cracker to drive compared to the lazy aceness of dans lol

[mowgli]

can you explain more on this please?

get a 1.6 block. rebore it to fit 1800 small block pistons, as in x18xe1 or z18xe, make sure you have no clearance issues with the rotating bits by doing a dummy build, and bob's your uncle...

you could even fit the top end off a 1600 ecotec & have a small block 1800 that would fit into a nova with no issues.


c612dnm, the reason people are scared of the z18xe is the need to convert the throttle, which can't be too difficult, and then make the std management work... with abs sensors etc..... more of a bind than an issue really. my reason for not getting one is that i'm poorer than greece

[Tiger13]

Thanks for all this guys and any more info is always welcome!

[Tiger13]

Though to add to that it may be further than I want to go with it, And as mentioned an xe conversion would be better to get the higher bhp gains, I was really looking for some fairly straightforward ways to add a few horses without going too deep into the engine (Or my bank account lol), With that being said im not mega tight and would/will spend where required but im not after 200bhp more like adding on another 50 max :-)

[Stuart]

In 98% cases of 1.6 8v tuning you will only add 50bhp max anyway.

[mowgli]

the works rally cars were only 155-60hp, and they cost a serious amount of coin to get that...

[pikey1986]

if your not looking at spending mega bucks just stick some 40's, a cam and manifold then spend money getting it set up properly

[mowgli]

so 500-600 quid minimum

[Tiger13]

Ok sounds fair and thats not bad money to get it tuned up a bit :-)

[therealnovaboy]

if your just looking at small increases in power then id say your best bet would be to fit programable management to the standard intlet system. from there yu can think about cams, ITB's, porting ect.

The best thing programable ecus is that they can be transferred to any car/ engine setup so once you tune the 1600 8v as far as reasonably practable (££) then you can go 16v etc

I recon a E16se engine with management and a decent exhaust and mild race cam would be excellent for a fast road/weekend toy. Id like to think it would see 120hp and very reasonable torque figures

[Tiger13]

if your just looking at small increases in power then id say your best bet would be to fit programable management to the standard intlet system. from there yu can think about cams, ITB's, porting ect.

The best thing programable ecus is that they can be transferred to any car/ engine setup so once you tune the 1600 8v as far as reasonably practable (££) then you can go 16v etc

I recon a E16se engine with management and a decent exhaust and mild race cam would be excellent for a fast road/weekend toy. Id like to think it would see 120hp and very reasonable torque figures

That sounds exactly like where I want to go with it, The thing is 120BHP doesnt sound like much, I used to have a few 300bhp cars (mr2 turbo, Sierra cosworth) and obviously were quick, Isnt 120 just a bit.....well sluggish? Also what kinda BHP are the standard e16se engines pushing?

Thanks!

[pikey1986]

standard when new they were about 100bhp

[therealnovaboy]

You may well get more than that. I knew a guy from falkirk that did this to his GTE (seen it on here somewhere Bruce was his name)with good results, im sure it was around 140 hp but im unsure if he had the head done or not. The standard inlet is well under rated IMO.

120hp with nearly equal torque should easily be capable.

EDIT - he did, see spec below

Engine: Fully rebuilt original engine 1600 8v, Block cleaned and painted black. Crank sized and polished journals. Rods fitted with ARP bolts. New main and big end bearings. New oil and water pumps. Lightened and balanced flywheel. Head gas flowed with 3 angle valve seats. New hydraulic lifters and piper competition valve springs. Oil pressure adjusted with small spacer. Piper 300 degree rally cam and vernier pully. Standard inlet manifold and throttle body as Group A build spec. Four branch manifold. 20 XE injectors. 16XE coil pack. FSE regulator. MBE 967 programmable ECU and SBD loom with all new sensors fitted. 20XE oil cooler. Alloy oil catch tank. Bailey header tank. Janspeed full exhaust system. 147 bhp at 7250rpm and 114lb/ft at 4700rpm

[sport]

Im sure Bruces engine was grp A spec iirc

[Dan]

Only major thing i remember when building mine was i didnt chase the big figures......... My goal was a good even spread of power and torque for drivability and fun. Even when it was being tuned we dialled back the top end to increase the low-midrange poke. That was always why its power peaked at 6250 @ 142bhp (allegedly!!) and peak torque was circa 132lbft (allegedly!!) But the critical point was it spent over 3000rpm of the power range above 120lbft when using the 'graph', but its all bullcrap at the end of the day and its how it drives that counts. Or to qoute stuart when comparing it to a peakier engine.....


jim had a similar engine but with a piper bp300 cam which had approx the same net power but was a bit more of a fire cracker to drive compared to the lazy aceness of dans lol

Thats what helped mine have the reputation of being bullet proof yet quick on the qtr and on track for such crappy figures lol

here is said graph from many many moons ago from the tuner that has been much missed for far to many years

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff163/Dan_R_album/roller.jpg

[Dayle_]

Save yourself some money on all the throttle body stuff etc. Get something like a SCCR gearbox and whack that in and it will make hell of a difference cheaper than all the other stuff mentioned. We've been there spending money on engines and the thing that makes the car in the end is the gears and ratio's they are set at unless its a race/rally car etc. But a box on a standard engine will waste a 130hp 1.6 on a standard gearbox fact. Obviously until it runs out of gears but then again we have a 70mph limit.....

[therealnovaboy]

I agree with you but its easier to make the gearbox to suit the engine than build an engine to suit the box or youll end up having to change the ratios as you tune the engine.

Id say it easier to tune the engine then once you no what your going to use it and where the power is, then you can change the ratios to suit.