View Full Version : oil leak
I had 2 oil leaks on my 1.4, the gearbox and the engine when it was under high pressure.
It has always done this since I| got it but decided to try and sort it.
I put a new gasket set on the garbox/transmission and as far as i can see there is no further leakage from this, I haven't driven it yet but have had the car running until the temperature was hot when looking at the engine leak.
All the bolts on the sump were not tight therefore I assumed this was where the engine leak was. The middle one at the front had no head on the bolt, probably why whoever did this didn't tighten the others after fear of breaking them?
Anyway, I tightened them and heated the car up, there were a few drips from where the clutch sits so I removed both flywheel and clutch cover. There was a bit of oil and some on the mechanism before the clutch. I cleaned it all as best I could and the two covers, put it back together and revved the engine whilst hot and it seems to be dry although I won 't tell until I go for a hard drive.
Is there a common oil leak at this area or is this likely just to have been oil sitting from all the work on the car?
a sump gasket isn't huge money. but spend some decent money on sealant.
the crank seal might be about shot, the car is at least 20 years old, so don't be surprised..
also if the rings are worn, or the breather is blocked, there will be excessive crank case pressure, and it has to come out somewhere
Thanks for that, I have checked that car now that it has sat for a few hours and has lost a few more drops of oil, again at the case that covers the clutch.
Is this more likely to be engine oil rather than gear oil? i.e. is there anyway this could be from the gearbox (more of a pain if it is as topping and checking gearbox levels is harder).
If it is likely just wear on the engine, the car is used on the track, is there any likelyhood of the leak become major and a breakdown or, leaving oil on the track which is obviously dangerous?
Or is it just got a small leak as you said, a 20 year old worn engine, and live with it!
Smell the oil,you will know if its gearbox oil,it smells awful.
If its not the sump then theres a good chance it could be dripping behind the flywheel from a leaking crankshaft oil seal
Having done the seals on the gearbox I now hate gearbox oil! As the oil is coming down from the flywheel direction, crankshaft oil seal sounds in the right direction, I hve neevr done one of theses but from the sound of crankshaft....I assume this is a big job?
Well its a gearbox off job,then remove the clutch,then the flywheel and the seal is there,lever it out,place your new one in,drift it home,done.Refit the stuff you removed.
if i were you, i'd check for crank endfloat whilst you are at it. a new set of shells & gaskets will make it last a lot longer..& won't be too expensive either
Apart from checking the oil frequently, is it likely to damage anything running it for a few weeks as it is?
I assume that this job will probably mean for me doing the job, the car will be off the road for weeks.
lol should only take a day,even on the floor.
You have no idea how rubbish I am, took me weeks to change a gearbox and even then there were problems! Seriously, I am ok with light mechanicals but anything serious....no hope.
1. If you can lever any play longways on the crank, then you need main bearings.
2. how else are you ever going to improve your skills? a haynes book, and a torque wrench are pretty much all thats needed to do the job.
1. If you can lever any play longways on the crank, then you need main bearings.
.
Do these engines not run thrust washers??
And you are allowed some play,aslong as its within the tolerances
The thrusts are on a main.
C612DNM
02-06-12, 07:54 PM
Yep, like Mowgli said, the thrusts are on the centre main.
It sounds like the rear seal has gone. It *can* be changed with the engine left in place, flywheel/clutch/sump removed. I've done them before in the dim and distant past.
Considering the age of the lump, I'd be tempted to do the ends/mains/oil pump at the same time.
1. If you can lever any play longways on the crank, then you need main bearings.
2. how else are you ever going to improve your skills? a haynes book, and a torque wrench are pretty much all thats needed to do the job.
I'd better buy a torque wrench then!
play longwise on the crank, I assume this can only be measured when the gearbox/clutch is removed and just by pulling the crack, seeing if there is any movement?
You mentioned replacing shells, showing just my level of ignorance here, what are shells otherwise called?
Thanks
Bearings, Mains,are the crank to block bearings/shells and big ends are the rod-crank bearings.
Yes end float is measured with just the crank,using feeler gauges,the haynes will tell you the tolerances.
Thanks.
using the car for a few weeks yet, do the crank seals ever have epic fails or will I probably be ok for a while just checking the oil?
The job is starting to look like a partial rebuild, I'm even more scared.
Never epic,just leak annoyingly really.
The rebuild is easier the more space you have and the longer time you spend cleaning and marking up parts.90% of an engine rebuild is measuring tolerances,anyone can torque a bolt up to x amount of nm
Thanks,
so long as it is not epic I'l be okay for a few weeks to phsicolgivally build myself up. I know that yourself and mowgli say these things are straightforward but for someone like me, degrees/postgrads and fellowships etc in my own field, I am rubbish at this and find it really hard being incompetent at anything. Ask mowgli, he gave loads of super advice on gearboxes and I was still rubbish, he was always polite but must have thought what an absolute fool!
I have thought about writing a comic book about me working on cars. I have a mate who is worse though, he was once adjusting his rear brakes on a morris minor, I got a call "take me to A and E, think I've broken my leg". I am as bad, working on my austin seven (mini) once i did a dance lying on my back, moving as fast as I could as it started moving forwards, the lock up was on a slope and the gearbox nearly crushed my head. It must have been hilariouos for anyone to watch though.
There is a typical example of incompetence no matter how hard I try.
I disagree.If you have degrees/fellowships then learning spanners is abc imo,you obviously have the capacity to learn,maybe ust have never been taught?/shown??
Im self taught/shown/read books etc,no qualifications in anything other than welding,1st aid and health and safety cscs
Ah but, academic is very different to actual practical ability, academics are very ignorant and never realise what skill actaully is.
I agree with you though, I am willing to learn so I will eventually manage it but I do seriously find all of it very difficult.
But as said above, the messes I get myself in sometimes would be funny (if I wasn't so frustrating and angry!!)
Serously,it really isnt technical nor difficult,just take your time.Good luck.:)
Thanks, I'l probably be posting for help once I get stuck!
Nee bother,its what we're all here for,to help each other.
Follow the haynes and you will be fine.
Ask mowgli, he gave loads of super advice on gearboxes and I was still rubbish, he was always polite but must have thought what an absolute fool!
marc69, i am part of a community on here. i will try to help as much as i can. i have never had any formal training in anything mechanical, thank god, and i have learnt most of my stuff the old fashioned way, by having to do it. everybody has to learn somewhere, and i will always try to help.
ps. most professional mechanics are frightened of gearboxes & will simply swap them for a 'recon' which is usually one from a scrap car that has been removed & steam cleaned.. the days of the mechanic are numbered, most are now parts installers, and they have never actually had to repair a component like what was considered the norm in the 1980's
Well your help and advice is always appreciated, and patience.
And in all honesty the community ie this website has inspired me to go miles farther forward (bad pun I know) than I would have ever gone with the cars. I think that gives one of the positive reasons for a community like this.
marc69, i am part of a community on here. i will try to help as much as i can. i have never had any formal training in anything mechanical, thank god, and i have learnt most of my stuff the old fashioned way, by having to do it. everybody has to learn somewhere, and i will always try to help.
ps. most professional mechanics are frightened of gearboxes & will simply swap them for a 'recon' which is usually one from a scrap car that has been removed & steam cleaned.. the days of the mechanic are numbered, most are now parts installers, and they have never actually had to repair a component like what was considered the norm in the 1980's
this,im like this aswell.
C612DNM
03-06-12, 08:15 PM
If you know which end of a screwdriver to hold, you're part way there!! I don't know what field you specialised in with your studies, but I'm sure we can get you through this.
It's true that some people don't "get" mechanics, but it's just another branch of physics. Motor Mechanics is more down to earth than Quantum Mechanics!
If you want, I can give you torque settings in relation to pi!!
;)
C612DNM
03-06-12, 08:17 PM
this,im like this aswell.
+1 !!
lol
Thanks folks for the encouragement. I have had a study of haynes and done some thinking as to what to do.
Although the oil leak isn't massive I think it would be irresponsible to put this back on a track knowing it is dripping oil so the crankshaft seal has to be replaced asap. I will check the breather first, but as it is dripping when the car is not being driven, looks more like a leak to me.
I understand what you have said regarding the shells etc making the engine last longer, the previous owner said he had put new rings etc in the car. I don't know how accurate this is but, the sump is brand new (with label) which explains why the bolts were not tight. It would be prudent to do the shells and check the rest anyway, however, I think I will go one step at a time, I'll attempt the oil seal in the next few weeks (I assume that whilst I have the end of the crank exposed I can check for movement) and a month or two later open it all up again and go for the shells and see if there is anything else needing renewal.
There is no knocking or growling under load at all, it was just the oil leak that intially concerned me. I assume the piston rings are ok, it passed the emissions for the mot 2 months ago and the spark plugs look good.
If I am taking the box, clutch and flywheel off as haynes says to renew the crank seal, do I still need to drain the oil and remove the sump?
I will be keeping the engine in the cars so fun lying on the ground!
thanks
get the car up in the air. jack it up & then get it on stands. [we got 6 young farmers round, physically lifted a caddy pickup & plonked it on a stack of straw bales to do an engine swap once]
then get a piece of 4x2 timber & with the 4" bit vertical, lay it between the front slam panel & the bulkhead, & attach a loop of rope round it & thru the lifting eye on the gbox end of the engine. this will support it.
get the car up in the air. jack it up & then get it on stands. [we got 6 young farmers round, physically lifted a caddy pickup & plonked it on a stack of straw bales to do an engine swap once]
then get a piece of 4x2 timber & with the 4" bit vertical, lay it between the front slam panel & the bulkhead, & attach a loop of rope round it & thru the lifting eye on the gbox end of the engine. this will support it.
Are you meaning to support it whilst I have the gearbox mounting off?
pikey1986
03-06-12, 10:02 PM
correct
thanks, a better method than when I put the gearbox in, I had the engine supported with some wood and a jack under the sump...oops
its hardly an oops, its just that my method gives you more room underneath
pikey1986
03-06-12, 10:18 PM
less chance of knocking the jack/wood and having an engine where your head was lol
I never thought of that, but you are right, that will give loads more room, thanks again for a great tip. It will hopefully ease on the frutration!
After inspecting the car the other day, topping it up with fuel, took it for a wee revvy spin tonight. It did the same thing that it does everytime I top up the oil. Just a few drops appear above the sump on the block on the front corner where the cambelt is. This drops down on the manifold and smokes. The wierd thing is it won't do it again until more new oil goes in?
Also, when I got the car the previous owner had doen a filter/oil change. The oil was pale yellow and very thin (similar to gear oil). Now that the oil has been run a good bit, instead of being normal black, it is a pale grey?
Do either of these things signal anything or just that it is a bit strange!
this sounds really dumb, but are you using a funnel when you top it up??? lol
so you need to clean off thetop end & see if its leaking out from the rocker cover, or the cam seal (a classic sign of breather blockage)
how many miles have you done since buying it? cos if an engine is properly warmed up & drainied, then run with flushing oil, & drained, all the black will get washed out, and it takes a while to reappear
Asking me a dumb question is not insulting regarding the funnel (or not to me anyway!) but yes, I am not spilling the oil putting it in.
If it were the breather then this may explain both oil leaks if I am lucky.
The breather is not connected to the air intake as there is not a vauxhall carb cover thing. To check it I assume I romove it, clean it and bung it back on? There are two outputs, one small one big. I have just put a wee filter over them for the moment but, do I need to connect them to anything?
The car has probably done lass than a thousand miles since I got it.
I'll inspect the driver's side properly later today at the cam/rocker.
Thanks
I have checked the cam and rocker cover for leaks and found none however there is oil from the crankshaft on the belt side so is it safe to assume the both oil seals on the crank (is there one on the driver's side?) have gone and need replacing?
Jon_nova1
17-06-12, 05:06 PM
oil pump seal or oil pump
The oil pressure seems fine in the car.
Is there anyway of knowing if it is the oil pump apart from the warning light?
is it more likely to be be oil pump seal or crank seals?
Thanks
re the breather, actually take the metal thing off the block & clean it... sometimes a blast from a steam cleaner is enough... sometimes putting petrol in & safely lighting it to burn the crap out works, sometimes, just cutting the bottom pipe off, fitting a length of pipe to it & the breather filter to the top of it will be better.
as for the oil seals, the front crank seal is obviously the one that is leaking, simply get a new one & fit it. they aren't big money & with care are easy enough to fit.
Thanks, I had a look at the breather last weekend, I couldn't access it to take it off without removing the inlet manifold so, i put some pipe neatly on the thick pipe bit and it blew through freely. This was perhaps not enough and I will have to remove the inlet and then breather.
When you say crank front seal, is thei sthe one at the gearbox end or belt end?
If it is the one at the gearbox end, would this be sending a bit of oil through and onto the block by the crank at the belt side?
The oil leak has never gotten any worse so i have just left it but, the car after the first session at knockhill always smokes. Looking at it, it is oil on the heatwrap where the exhuast manifold goes under the engine.
I have removed the wrap from the point wherethe four branch goes in to one. This has stopped any smoking but, have I made a fire risk now? If some drops of oil hit this pipe directly, will the ignite or just dissintegrate?
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