View Full Version : safe to run more power or not
Hi all brought sneakycorsas nova saloon turbo a couple of wheels back and was just wondering if I could achieve more bhp on the engine spec I've got and also would it be safe to run more power
Engine spec
.forged pistons .5 oversized
.arp engine kit
. Port and polished head
Uprated bearings
.standerd kkk16 turbo
.standerd rods
.standerd crank
.apexi boost controller
.wideband
.EVO 5 management
That's all I can think of at the moment its running 291 bhp at the wheels at 16 psi can I go for more power thanks
How are you planning on getting more power? The turbos all ready at its limit, and the map (evo 5) gives that sort of bhp.
I would say its already on its limit now.
And why upgrade pistons but not the rods? :wtf:
The chap that built the car got the pistons at a pretty cheap price and I was thing tubular manilfold gt28 turbo and aftermarket managment would engine be ok if I upgraded to better rods
Personally i wouldnt bother. Be more hassle than its worth.
291 at the wheels? What boost is that at??
I wouldnt touch it - turbo is absolutely on its limit (assuming that figure is reliable) as are the stock internals tbh...
the only stock internals im running is rods and crank other than that everything else is upgraded and it runs 16 psi and yes the dyno is as accurate as they get it was rolling roaded at tvr so caint see there rollers being out cheers
291bhp at the wheels is bs btw. That makes it anywhere from 320-330bhp @ the fly. I had omex t34 etc and only got 355bhp at the fly so spending all your money for an extra 25bhp is pointless imo.
Novasport
18-05-12, 03:18 PM
the only stock internals im running is rods and crank other than that everything else is upgraded and it runs 16 psi and yes the dyno is as accurate as they get it was rolling roaded at tvr so caint see there rollers being out cheers
An engine is only as strong as its weakest component, ie the rods.
turbojolt
18-05-12, 05:16 PM
What's the estimated limit of the standard rods then??
I wouldn't take them over 300 flywheel horse power, others say they're fine up to 350
turbojolt
18-05-12, 08:28 PM
Strong enough for most then yer lol
BRoadGhost
18-05-12, 10:44 PM
You'll be bending rods soon.
the only stock internals im running is rods and crank other than that everything else is upgraded and it runs 16 psi and yes the dyno is as accurate as they get it was rolling roaded at tvr so caint see there rollers being out cheers
So running less boost than phase 2 but about 50bhp more, engine must be a good'un!
Next you'll be telling us you are running an F20 too!
correct lol have a chat to the chap who built it hes a member sneakycorsa as i said it was rolling roaded at tvr and i caint see there rollers being out nobby also knows the chap who built it ill try and get the dyno printout of him
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291bhp at the wheels is bs btw. That makes it anywhere from 320-330bhp @ the fly. I had omex t34 etc and only got 355bhp at the fly so spending all your money for an extra 25bhp is pointless imo.
how can you say 291 bhp is bs you dont know the car i had this with my last nova turbo it run 244bhp and all i got was being slated on here rollers must be out blah blah blah how do you know that when you had yours rollerd that your rollers was out what makes your right
Jon_nova1
19-05-12, 11:27 PM
Fair point, I don't think most people know just how effective a turbo can be, I have a Mazda 323 turbo, standard form out of the 1.8 litre it runs 211BHP at 7psi, take it to 12 and it averages 260-280BHP.
Simple fact is people are calling your bluff albeit they could have been nicer, so lets see your printout lol
Because a kkk at 16psi will not do 330bhp. Whatever floats your boat though, pub bhp ftw.
Rick Draper
20-05-12, 01:59 AM
....
Fair point, I don't think most people know just how effective a turbo can be, I have a Mazda 323 turbo, standard form out of the 1.8 litre it runs 211BHP at 7psi, take it to 12 and it averages 260-280BHP.
Simple fact is people are calling your bluff albeit they could have been nicer, so lets see your printout lol
as soon as i can get in touch with the chap ill get it up on here prove these people wrong
Because a kkk at 16psi will not do 330bhp. Whatever floats your boat though, pub bhp ftw.
pub talk dout it mate as i said what makes your bhp figures right yours could be the biggest load of bulls**t going but you dont see me slating you as i said you dont know the car you dont know every modification done the rolling road was done at a better place to try and stop this crap like i had with my last one and as i said you wont get much better than tvr rolling road if you want mate ill arrange for you to come for a rolling road day there and you can see it for your self pal prove you wrong it would 100%
you asked, you got an honest answer.
you asked, you got an honest answer.
i asked if i could run more power not are my bhp figures right because i knw they are
the bhp is not right, and no you cant as its maxed out is what the answer is
Jon_nova1
20-05-12, 01:01 PM
its definately maxed out, bigger turbo, forged rods are needed and your fueling/injectors need attention
turbojolt
20-05-12, 01:11 PM
I'm surprised you want more power then that tbh unless its more of a track/drag car then a road one
Fair point, I don't think most people know just how effective a turbo can be, I have a Mazda 323 turbo, standard form out of the 1.8 litre it runs 211BHP at 7psi, take it to 12 and it averages 260-280BHP.
Simple fact is people are calling your bluff albeit they could have been nicer, so lets see your printout lol
Lol, dont forget that standard kkk turbo on a let gives it 200hp standard, so 80-90hp gain on that with ph2-3/Evo 5 software is quite a jump, hence you can see why the standard turbo is on its last legs at that sort of power.
Oh and i could put my RR printout up if you like, its a standard C20xe making 181bhp lol
Printouts dont really mean a lot.
To the original thread poster, as everyone has said you are at the limit of what a standard c20let can do. From here you start needing a lot of changes(turbo, rods, management etc...)
A lot of power used to run bigger turbos and keep with the evo5 software, and then just fiddle with the fuel pressure to get the afr safe. Thats one way that could give a bit more, if you really need more for some reason.
the bhp is not right, and no you cant as its maxed out is what the answer is
Exactly this, listen to whats being said.
a gt28 with tubular on std cams and inlet will give 330bhp ish. If you do these modifications to yours you will be very dissapointed with the outcome when its the same as what you have now.
The answer to your question is no your engine will already be beyond its safe/recommended/advised limits at 291whp.
i have always been told at any RR i have been to that wheel horse power can't be lied about? And that flywheel bhp can be anyone's guess as this is just a calculation.
Is this not correct? As when i last took one of my cars to dynodaze in hinkley he had a lad there telling him that his rollers were out due to him having a higher reading on another RR. The chap at dynodaze also told him to go get a wheel horse power figure from the place he got the higher reading from and to come back and try to tell him his rollers are out then.
Just to all thw people telling me my car is wrong bhp I know what its capable of and ill stick to my guns and go on what a professional tuner has told me thanks to the people who have helped with my question change the rods witch will be being done
djbrowney
28-05-12, 07:11 PM
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
and people wonder why we dont keep many new faces ......
and people wonder why we dont keep many new faces ......
To be fair he asked for advice, got advice, got defensive and spat his dummy out!
If it was making 290 bhp ATW his gearbox wouldn't even get him up a 1/4 mile.
Right heres my opinion ill say it once.....
This is the 2nd time decent local lads to me have came on here after advice and sooo called regulars have jumped on the bandwagon and basically called them a liar and told him hes wrong and hes cars not what he claims it is. If people havent got any " good advice " dont fuking bother, how can people claim thats hes wrong when 1. You have never seen the car 2. You aint got a ****ing clue who built it, people on here really think there something special lately i dont know whats going wrong from the usual freindly people ive met.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vr0xrenx2o
This is the video of the nova that the previous owner made on the dyno just to show its not pub talk and it has been rolling roaded
After fitting the new rods, how do you plan to get more power? As others have said getting rid of the standard parts and adding a gt turbo and standalone management a lot more power can be had, IMO the turbo and chipsets are maxed out
turbojolt
30-05-12, 09:54 AM
Did the guy that built it work at tvr then?
Angus Closier
30-05-12, 11:51 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vr0xrenx2o
This is the video of the nova that the previous owner made on the dyno just to show its not pub talk and it has been rolling roaded
Sorry but you have missed the point.
Many people on this forum (let alone full time dyno users) Could explain how a few changes (ambient SP air temp etc) can be changed and a very very wrong reading will be shown.
The fact people have tried to save you from ruining a now very expensive engine and you have come back with a You tube link to prove its "been rolling roaded"
Take the advise, the kkk will not be supplying the air needed to that sort of power. Its a simple as that.
Nobby, I understand the band wagon rubbish . It bugs me more than you, but there have been some good advise which has been ignored.
If he Don't want the truth don't ask.....
Southie
30-05-12, 12:39 PM
TBH I know feck all about turbo builds but Paul would be one of the first people I actually would ask advice from regarding this sort of question.
EDIT: Also this might answer some of the questions regarding your KKK CLICKYME (http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/443194-maximum-bhp-standard-kkk16-turbo-c20let.html)
A kkk in standard guise is balls out at its limit at 290bhp (and even thats questionable). Approx 20-22psi. It will not last long, so running it at 14psi (iirc) will not give 290 whp. Its impossible, it doesnt move enough air. Its completely irrelevant its been rolling roaded at 290whp, because the figures nova_t is talking about now on a kkk is the figures youd expect to see with a gt28 and tubular mani. I know iv seen it with my own eyes 330bhp!
Ive been there and fell for the xxxbhp rr pub bull****. My ph2 nova had '289bhp', i changed it to omex and took it to a proper RR, and it gave 246bhp. Now the nova with 246bhp was faster than the ph2 down the strip (higher terminal) and on the road. So you see some RR's can tell lies and over read.
Which ever way you look at it, if you still want to beleive your 290whp, your internals are pretty much on or near their limit. But dont be dissapointed when youve taken it to a proper RR to set up and after all your modifications its the same bhp. Infact i know you won't be cause itll actually feel like 320/330bhp, and trust me in a nova thats ballistic.
i put a big bore 4 back box on my nova back in the day and got 330bhp at the wheels whilst tripping on acid.
I'm not saying any of you are wrong and to be honest I'm not really fussed what bhp its running its fast and that's all that matters .I think a lot of people have not read my original question properly I didn't ask is my bhp figures right I asked will my engine take more power I have got my answer witch is no I need rods turbo and managment so I caint see why people are disputing my bhp figures because I didn't ask about them thanks for all the info though good and bad
Angus Closier
31-05-12, 10:24 PM
I'm not saying any of you are wrong and to be honest I'm not really fussed what bhp its running its fast and that's all that matters .I think a lot of people have not read my original question properly I didn't ask is my bhp figures right I asked will my engine take more power I have got my answer witch is no I need rods turbo and managment so I caint see why people are disputing my bhp figures because I didn't ask about them thanks for all the info though good and bad
To give an accurate answer, accurate info was needed on the engine.
You have your answer now so thats where it should end.
People are not out to get you on here, but they are also not going to agree with statements or "Rolling roaded" BHP claims.
As you say if its how you want it then thats fine!
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