View Full Version : 1.4 NV ignition problem
I have a 1.4 carb engine and after it's first 2 maiden voyage epic fails I tried a third attempt today. I got to the corner and it died.
After many checks it seems there is no ignition.
It is a round coil (like on minis) and has a module underneath.
I had massive problems last year with my 1.2i every time it was wet. eventually on a dry day i put 20 layers of holts dampstart on the ignition systyem to stop the problems and repeated this every few months.
Are there other vauxhualls that use the same cylinder coil that I can get from the scrappy and the module which uses 7 (i think from mememory) rather than 4 connections from other cars as I have spent a fortune on this car gettng it through an MOT and now it keeps on failing and I am reluctant to put out more money unitl it at least goes!
assuming it is not just dampness but, it started first time and went 20 metres, full stop, no amount of wd40 made any difference.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 09:09 AM
Have you checked the mini loom wiring for broken wires etc?
Is there definately power to the coil?
Have you checked the mini loom wiring for broken wires etc?
Is there definately power to the coil?
How do I check that there is power to the coil?
Can anyone tell me if dampness could be the cause before I attempt a drive in it.
The car is usually under a cover and had been for the last 10 days. Obviously every day has been wet and damp. Yesterday the car started fine but then after a few minutes died, not to start again no matter how much wd40 (asda own cheap version) I used. Even when I got home from the pub I tried turning it just to see.....dead.
I didn't bother putting the cover on yesterday as after pushing it back up the drive, I would be under the bonnet today. It rained all last night however I just went out and turned the key to see what would happen, it started immediately. I wobbled the wires about whilst it was going to see if any were loose but it never missed a beat.
If it is dampness then I will just have to wait for that one dry day in august if we are lucky (I'll just heat the engine up) and cover it in that holts damp protection stuff.
Is it likely however that dampness would have caused it to completely refuse to go after starting yesterday?
Dampness could cause such an issue if its stoping the spark from Jumping, if your not competant with electrics mate i would get someone to check for any resictance on the mini loom wiring and check you defo have a feed to it when it wont crank, this would rule out wiring issues it could be a dodgy coil which could go at any minute. The 2.0 8v cav calibra etc runs the same coil as the 1.4.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 12:49 PM
How do I check that there is power to the coil?
Unplug the mini loom multiplug and check for 12v at the black wire with ignition on (iirc)
You may find the pins in the mini look plug have corroded.
Thanks, it's not dampness, went to go for a spin at 12, it's still dead.
I have checked that there is current going to the coil when the ignition is switched on, there is so I would assume it is either a faulty coil or the module that sits below it.
I did try a mini coil just to see if it would even cough even though it is not the correct coil but, nothing.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 04:15 PM
Have you checked for a spark at the king lead?
Stangely enough I had a similar problem years ago and it was the nylon pin that had broken off (that takes the drive off the camshaft) - may be worth checking. Slacken off the distributor and pull it off and you will soon see.
I have now done some checks, the black lead from the loom is giving 12v with the ignition on.
There is no spark at the plugs when cranking.
With the ignition on, the two leads which go to the distributor, they give a 6v reading and the other gives a 2v, these come from the module.
The module has 6 wires, the black giving 12v and a green giving 6v
The wires that go to the coil, the black is 12v and the other is 0
the actual ignition lead that attaches to the distributor, with just the ignition on, this is giving a 2-3v reading.
If anyone can make sense of that, I would be grateful!
Have you checked for a spark at the king lead?
Stangely enough I had a similar problem years ago and it was the nylon pin that had broken off (that takes the drive off the camshaft) - may be worth checking. Slacken off the distributor and pull it off and you will soon see.
I'll have a look just now, I have checked that the rotor arm is turning. I assume the nylon bit affects inside the distibutor.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 05:44 PM
If the rotor arm is turning then its not the nylon pin thats broken.
Have you checked the condition of the rotor arm - clean it up with fine emery tape if need be. Look for tracking or scorch marks in the inside of distributor cap.
If the rotor arm is turning then its not the nylon pin thats broken.
Have you checked the condition of the rotor arm - clean it up with fine emery tape if need be. Look for tracking or scorch marks in the inside of distributor cap.
Thanks, I tried a spare cap so assume its ok and the rotir arm is clean and is only a few months old.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 05:54 PM
If there is no spark at king lead, and power at the multiplug its likely your coil.
They are not cheap or easy to find - I changed over to a 1.2 setup which I found more reliable, thats the black delco distributor and small delco coil with only two wires going in to worry about rather than the mass of them that the bosch seems to have.
I can probably cobble together enough stuff to get a complete 1.2 igntion system.
Does it just work just by wiring up the coil etc?
Do you know whoch colours from the 6 wires to the module go to which pins on the 4 pin(1.2) module?
I can probably get bits from the ohc 1.2i corsa engine too as i saw one in the scrappy today.
kent14sr
22-04-12, 09:11 PM
Injection stuff is no use - you would have to use carb stuff.
Take off all the bosch stuff - distributor, mini loom, coil/module. Replace with black top distributor which has a red and black wire coming out with a plug on the end. This plugs onto the black coil, and the black wire from the cars loom plugs onto the coil too. Thats it.
I will likely have a spare black top distributor and coil if you are interested.
Thanks that sounds so easy........
I'll have a look in the cupboard tomorrow and see what I have and I may get back to you if I don't have certain items. Can you send me a pm with prices just incase I am short of bits please?
The 1.2 carb coil has a module too I tghink?
I installed the early 1.2 ingnition set up on the 1.4. It works! Thanks kent14sr.
I have a few small problems though.
1. It is difficult to start. Is this just a case of ensuring the plugs are suitable for 1.2 ignition? and checking gap?
2. The vacuum in the advance is shot, and you can tell as the revs rise, it doesn't take of the same. Anyone got a vacuum from an OHC pre 1990 car they want rid of?
3. The fuse for the instrument dislplay keeps popping, it didn't do this before.
Today I ran the car off the black wire for the radiator fan. However the three wires that existed for the 1.4 are black=power, green=rev counter but, what is the brown one for/how do I use it in the older ignition set up? Are any of these things why the fuse keeps popping?
I will keep my eyes open for a coil and module for the 1.4 set up as this is my spare ignition for my 1.2 and 1.3 so I need to keep it although I will use it for the moment.
Advice would be much appreciated thanks
kent14sr
23-04-12, 08:34 PM
Brown is earth iirc
Have you set the ignition timing with a strobe? Thats likely the difficulty starting.
the inner cam cover is missing (quality car) so there are no markers for a strobe but, I set it by ear like i did with the original ignition.
I also tried different settings to see if it would be any better, all settings are exactly the same regarding starting.
The earth, do I just connect the brown from the connection to an earth (I'll probably just put it in the bolt that holds the coil on the car)?
I'll experiment more tomorrow but at least I have progress, I would never have thought of using the other ignition, thanks again for that.
kent14sr
23-04-12, 09:07 PM
Yes usually bolts to inner wing as far as I can remember.
Timing mark is a nick/indentation on the bottom pulley (looks like a hacksaw blade has cut in a mm or two), with a pointer sticking out from oil pump/block area
No problem - glad your up and running again
I tried mucking about with the ignition timing today, the pin from the water pump bit doesn't exist on this car, according to haynes the marker is on the backplate cover which is missing.
With the ignition turned way back towards me (retarded..the ignition!)? It starts easy but runs really bad, it takes a good 25 degrees of turning to run nice but it won't start? Is this really just because of the vacuum?
I'll maybe borrow a vacuum at the wekeend from my 1.2L although I am very relucytant to "borrow" bits from it for this 1.4.
kent14sr
24-04-12, 05:17 PM
It will be the timing that needs correctly setting.
The mark on the plastic cambelt housing is for tdc when replacing cambelt.
I'll have more reading to see if I can figure it out.
Ok, checked haynes again, it says that there is no marker so went out and took aphoto of the car,
No pointer......what a pain!
ps cleared inbox, sorry.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo366.jpg
Got the car running beautifully today, first journey without a breakdown/drama, phew!
Changing to the older ignition system I couldn't get the car to start without hassle and the the running was poor. I changed it from the HEI bosch system to the tradition electronic sytem that ran from 1982 to1990.
Well just for the benefit for anyone else who does this, the car would hardly start and then it almost drained the battery with the bosch spark plugs where as with the champion plugs which are supposed to go with this earlier design, first turn of the starter motor and far better running, it was literally unbeleivable!
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