Head gasket change *First time doing this so help needed!*

[Tiger13]

Ok this may be a bad idea but there seems to be oil coming from the headgasket out of the block on to the floor and its pretty bad :( It was done back in 2010 (Or at least theres receipts for the gasket!) but obviously not very well! Anyway thats not important!

I have a haynes manual and although I have never been deeper than a rocker cover gasket before I have worked on all sorts of cars of my own and worked as a mechanic for 3 years (Just never with engines lol!) so im pretty good with tools but I own no specialist engine tools and have no understanding of how to do anything on the engine however my haynes manual should help and honestly it's why I bought the Nova so I could confront my demons and learn engine work!! Its not my daily driver its just a weekend car that I intend to make as mint as possible so it should be ok, I also am lucky enough to have my own double garage with nothing but the nova inside it (Oh and my petrol lawn mower lol!)

First of all what bits do I need to buy for a head gasket change on a 1.4 sri? I know obviously the gasket, Head bolts I think?, Is it worth changing the cambelt too wwwhilst im there and water pump??

Also where can I buy a head kit from as I cant see anything on ebay?

Thanks in advance :-)

[phazer]

Get the gaskets for the head,inlet and cam cover (can't remember if they're rubber on the SRi, but you might as well do it right and do it all once). You will need to replace the head bolts. While it's in bits get the water pump done, might as well change the belt (and tensioner? again can't remember if it runs one or uses the water pump) whilst your at it.

Get the set from Vauxhall if you can get trade discount.

Oh and you'll need a decent set of tools/sockets, a torque wrench and an angle gauge. Is there someone you know who can help you first time?

[pikey1986]

autovaux is another good shout for parts

[swedge]

buy yourself a headgasket set, you will get all the gaskets you need

for the price of a waterpump i would change it anyway and you will need a new timing belt, they should always be changed when taken off

you will need a new set of headbolts too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-ASTRA-CAVALIER-NOVA-CYL-HEAD-BOLTS-HEX-HEAD-/170615497018?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27b979e13a

this is the gasket set you need

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASTRA-CORSA-NOVA-HEAD-GASKET-SET-1-4-MPi-8V-C14SE-/140467785067?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20b4884d6b

[Tiger13]

Thanks guys for that!!, Am I right in thinking I can start stripping it today or do I need any specialist tools? I dont have torque wrench or angle gauge but I can get them next week no probs! I will keep this thread updated as I go and maybe do a guide on the side for the articles section as I go?

Would it be ok to start stripping today without a torque wrench and angle gauge? Also do I need a timing light or something to stop the crank?? Sorry for sounding so unexperienced but I am unexperienced!!

[swedge]

the only thing you might need is a torx set depending on what headbolts are on your engine atm

[swedge]

i have a fair few pics of my 1.4 when i stripped it apart in my project thread, (links in my sig)

[mowgli]

you can buy an angle gauge, or if tight, like me, you can google & print off a 360 degrees protractor & a pointer & (if you have one), laminate it, then you have saved about a tenner over what most places charge.

[Tiger13]

Cool thanks swedge, I got a semi decent torx set so Im gonna nip out now have a quick blast in it then get busy!!, Will update as and when I get stuck lol!!!

[swedge]

take lots of photos, thats what i do then you can check back on them when refitting :)

[Tiger13]

Thanks dude, Im masking and bits I seperate and putting symbols on the tape so I know what to re-connect!! Anyway I have come to the conclusion that the haynes manual is sh*te, It doesnt cover the 1.4 sri engine it just does the 1.0, The 1.2 and 1.3 no doubt all carbed engines :-( Anyway Im now stuck!!

I am working using the 1.2/1.3 guide in the book but half of it just isnt relevant so its guess as I go!!, Anyway im at the bit where I need to remove the cambelt, From what I can see the cambelt cover has 5 10mm bolts, It is in 2 sections, I have the top section off no problem but the lower section of the cover is in-accessible, This is due to a pulley at the bottom of the engine it runs the alternator belt (Which is off) but as I try to undo the bolt on it to get it off the whole cambelt is rotating, Im guessing I need to stop the cam system to stop rotating but how? Also does the bolt undo anti-clockwise? I know sometimes they make them the other way round just to slaughter people like me!!!

Thanks :-)

[swedge]

Get someone to stand on the brakes and put it in gear then undo the bolts

[Tiger13]

Ok cool, Any gear?

[Gaz1300SR]

I'm going to have a go doing my first head gasket soon too, I have similar experience with cars as you so interested to hear how you get on.

I'm fitting a Kent cam so figured it do the belts etc while I'm at it. I worry about snapping the headbolts.....

Good luck!

[Tiger13]

Il keep this thread updated as I go and try and do a guide as well as there doesnt seem to be much in the way of decent pictured guides around!!, Anyway I put the car in 5th and had the brakes held down firm and used my breaker bar, It turned a bit then when stiff so I gave it some force and something metal sounded like it snapped, It wasnt the nut snapping loose :-0 then it turned a bit more and went stiff, The metal snapping noise wasnt nice and I fear I have damaged something serious?? Anyway I have come back in with the realisation I cant proceed without an airgun and compressor, There may be ways but it sounded a lot like damage and now im concerned!!

[swedge]

Put it in first gear and do it, it shouldnt turn then

The crack noise is usually just the bolt "cracking" it's just the bolt coming loose don't worry about it

Soke the bolts in wd40 first

[Tiger13]

Still turns in 1st?? Will have another go tommorow but it's cold and I cant be arsed lol!

[swedge]

Lol is it the main bolt in the middle or the smaller ones holding the pulley on?

[mowgli]

you can do the head gasket quite easily on an mpi nova. you don't need to remove all the manifolds & injection system seperately, just make sure you remove all the necessary connectors & pipes from round the back. and then you can take the head off complete.

[Tiger13]

Swedge its the centre bolt, The pully is blocking the cambelt cover so I cant get to the waterpump or anything!!, Thanks Mowgli! Thing is I would like to do the waterpump and maybe put in some lightweight pully's (Perhaps!)

[swedge]

Get a breaker bar with the right sized socket on it and place it on the bolt

Put the breaker bar so that 1 end is on the socket and the other is ed against the ground

Put it in first gear and flick the ignition on and off

The nut will loosen that way haut be careful

[Andy]

Get a breaker bar with the right sized socket on it and place it on the bolt

Put the breaker bar so that 1 end is on the socket and the other is ed against the ground

Put it in first gear and flick the ignition on and off

The nut will loosen that way haut be careful
Thats exactly how not to do it.

[swedge]

I know hundreds of people that do that and I've done it on every engine I've had and never damaged anything

I'm not talking about holding they key round for half an hour just a quick flick does it

[Andy]

List the names of these "hundreds" then lol
Whats wrong with a brick/block/chock/on the brakes friendy/ on the wheels,thats how i always manage,as i never have people round to help undo crank nuts/driveshaft nuts etc.
What your describing is a sure fire way to shag tools,and parts of your car.
If thats slips off,theres expensive parts around that area.

[Tiger13]

I saw what your saying on youtube swedge and it looks ok and if im honest I already tried it but in nuetral lol!!, I understand your point Andy and it is obviously risky to a degree but its an easy way, I tried with the brakes on and it keeps spinning, It says on the youtube vid about half a second of crank with the ignition wiring out (So the car doesnt fire up!) and it should work, I will try it tommorow in 1st gear, Im guessing both wheels will have to be off the ground or the car will jump?

[mowgli]

if you think cranking an engine over to remove the bolt is good practise, and you have already stated that you have 3 years experience as a mechanic, stop right now, and pay someone who cares about doing the job right to do it.

removing a crank bolt is about the easiest thing to do. stick it in TOP gear, as you need the highest gear possible & get a breaker bar on it. if it won't undo, then stick an extension on it (some scaffold).

if this still doesn't work, then chock the bar on the ground, and let the handbrake off & roll the car forward, still in gear. this is way safer than wazzing up a starter motor to undo it..

[Tiger13]

Its not that it wont do (It wont but thats not the only problem) its that it just keeps rotating whatever gear its in, Even when I really force it it just goes from its 'stop' point makes a crack then rotates another another 90 degrees until it stops again then with force it goes past that too and so on and so on, Im not sure why this is happening as like I said I dont understand engine/gearbox's but thats how it goes, It leaves me with no choice but to either buy a compressor and impact wrench or use the starter motor to give it a 'power' jolt, If you have any other suggestions let me know!! Its really not that easy to do im 6"1 and 18 stone mostly muscle and it is not coming loose (Mainly because its just going round!), I hope I can manage to get this sorted!!

[MK999]

It's rusty and you're slowly unwinding it, but it's stuck enough to actually twist the bolt, as it springs round and releases that's what the crack is, and then it gets stuck again. Keep going, it'll either come out or snap, and if it snaps, it would have done whatever method you used, but tbh you'd have to be about 30 stone of muscle to snap a crank bolt.

[mowgli]

first principals here. if you have the car in gear, and as i have said, top gear, because you want the worst mechanical advantage possible to the wheels, then you are trying to undo the crank bolt, there is a certain amount that the engine & gears will rotate before stopping. but once they are meshed & stopped, you will need a lot of torque to make the engine/wheels turn. if the car is movind, then jam the brakes on, if it still moves, then park it against a decent wall & then undo it.

about the starter motor thing, stick the car in top with the handbrake on & see how far the starter will take it.... nowhere.... the torque from that method is nowt, compared to a bar.

[Gaz1300SR]

Plus, surely this could ruin the starter?

[mowgli]

not really, but the concept of flailing metal bars fills me with dread..

[Tiger13]

I appreciate what your all saying but its not the nut turning, The whole cam pulley at the top is rotating too so obviously all the pulleys are still going round not just the nut!!, I would obviously rather not take shortcuts by using the starter but sometimes if its the only option, As for the bar flailing I have measures in place for damage limitation, Without photos of my safety method I cant be arsed to explain but its very unlikely to damage anything/ come loose, Anyway im out until this evening and I may have another look then, Again the starter isnt preferable but if its a last option then I feel I have no choice!!, I will update as and when I have more :-)

[mowgli]

hold on, the cam pulley??? if the car is in gear, there is no way the cam pulley is going to stick. you are undoing it properly & not trying to do it up??

look thru the holes in the pulley. you will see the bolts that the cambelt cover fastens with. put a socket in thru the hole & lock the pulley with the socket, then undo it.

[MK999]

He means he's on the crank pulley, and it's rotating the cam pulley, as it will when it's gear due to clearance on all the engine components.

[mowgli]

mk999, i'm struggling to understand how either bolt is putting up a fight tbh.

[swedge]

Starter method still wins by me lol

[MK999]

It's not, it's cracking off fine, as we keep saying lol

[swedge]

If the nuts turning and the pulleys arnt it's coming out jut keep undoing it sometimes loctite is used so makes it stiff when removing

[mr b]

If the cam pulley is turning sounds like your causing the clutch to slip with the pressure your applying someone may have used thread lock. You might overcome it by using a socket and bar (not a ratchet) and give the bar a sharp blow with a large hammer be carfull as the socket may fly and the idea is to get a quick sharp blow to break the bond

[Andy]

Unbelievable.
I cant believe how many rough ar5e answers there is in this thread.
Whats wrong with locking off the pulleys??
Or locking the flywheel??
It really is that simple.

[Royston]

Windy gun for me, everytime (as I have access to one);)

[Edd]

Unbelievable.
I cant believe how many rough ar5e answers there is in this thread.
Whats wrong with locking off the pulleys??
Or locking the flywheel??
It really is that simple.Well said mate, jeez just do it right first time ffs lol

[paul080803]

It really is quite scary some of the suggestions!

No disrespect to the OP but if you are asking how to do a headgasket on an engine as simple as a 1.4 Nova then perhaps you shouldnt be doing it? All for people learning and 'giving it a go' but maybe the first time should be with somebody physically there assisting you.

Bars on the floor and turning the key is not the way to do things!

[swedge]

It might be a bit of a pikey way to do it but the amount of times I've done it and seen people do it they hve never damaged or broke anything

[Tiger13]

It really is quite scary some of the suggestions!

No disrespect to the OP but if you are asking how to do a headgasket on an engine as simple as a 1.4 Nova then perhaps you shouldnt be doing it?

Its only easy when you know the answer ;-), And the point is thats exactly why im doing it on my 1.4 nova not my 2.1 Jag!! Theres no point having somewhere here showing me how as il never learn, I could watch an instruction video all day long but it doesn't compare to self learning!! Also as a final point I intend to change the engine anyway so why not use the current one to learn and if it goes well il have a minter engine to sell on after!!

Thanks for all the advice as well guys il have a play tommorow and see what works best :-)

[brainsnova]

Everyone has to learn somewhere so good luck for trying. I wouldn't advise the flick the ignition way

[Tiger13]

Hey guys!!, I have been off the forum for a bit as Iv been a little occupied with a 200sx I bought, Anyway thought id press on with the Nova today, Got quite far I think, Anyway if anyone remembers me saying by my forcing the bottom pulley I heard a snap and everyone said thats just the nut, Well it wasnt!, Anyway heres a photo 10 points if you can spot the problem!:

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/tigerpoeton/Nova/IMG_0523.jpg


And for those who didn't get it here is the problem highlighted:

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/tigerpoeton/Nova/Cam.jpg


Leaving me with a few bits like this in the cam area:

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/tigerpoeton/Nova/IMG_0525.jpg

And this is it close up:

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu113/tigerpoeton/Nova/IMG_0526.jpg


The question I have is what is that piece thats broken called and can I buy them in 1's?

Thanks!!

[swedge]

its called a rocker arm, best buying a full set imo but cant see it hurting just replacing the 1

[Tiger13]

Ok got a set of rocker arms yesterday (Bilstein) and fitted them all, Put everything back together but now it wont start any suggestions? (It does turn over)

[Andy]

That has snapped for a reason.Im guessing something is stopping that valve opening.
The head must come off to inspect now.

[Tiger13]

It was running fine until I tried to undo the lower pulley and while trying to undo the nut I heard it snap, The head has been off hence the thread and now its back together my problem is it wont start :-( any ideas?

[swedge]

are you getting spark?

un screw a plug and connect it to the ht lead and rest it on the cam box and turn it over does it spark? if it dosnt check for power to your coil/dizzy

if it does spark do the plugs smell of fuel? is the fuel pump working correctly?

if your getting spark and fuel is the timing correct?

[kent14sr]

It was running fine until I tried to undo the lower pulley and while trying to undo the nut I heard it snap, The head has been off hence the thread and now its back together my problem is it wont start :-( any ideas?

Did the cambelt slip in your attempts to remove the bottom pulley bolt? Could be a bent valve which may explain your broken rocker.

Was the engine correctly timed up when you put it back together? Did you wind it over without sparkplugs in off the bottom pulley bolt to check everything was turning smoothly?

Did you drain the hydraulic lifters of oil? If so the engine will never start till they get refilled as there is insufficient compression.

[Tiger13]

Ok sorry for the late reply iv been seen busy with other things, Anyway just found a bit of time for the nova now and it's definitly sparking and I can smell fuel so Im thinking that must be ok, Yes it turns smoothly without the sparks, I dont know about timing but I put it back together exactly as I took it apart without moving any pulleys or anything, I didnt drain anything of oil as far as I know? I even just tried a spray of start you ******* and it didnt even fire up then not even briefly so it looks like ignition but its sparking ok?

Im really stumped and on the verge of giving up but any other ideas or ways to test things would be great otherwise I think it may be going for sale as a non runner and buying another one and never touching an engine again :-(

[swedge]

get the timing belt cover off and make sure the timing marks line up

[Tiger13]

Yeah they do but when I turn it over it obviously all moves out of position :S

[swedge]

yeah it will do since everything turns but when you line up the cam pulley the crank pulley should be in line as well

if your definitely getting spark and fuel something else isnt right

what engine is it? does it try to start at all or just turn over?

[Tiger13]

Its a 1.4 sri, It turns over but wont start, Il check the lining up tommorow, Would stop it even trying to start?

[swedge]

if the timing was out depending how far it should cough and splutter

are your leads etc all in the right order?

[mr b]

To brake a rocker the valve must of hit a piston while undoing the crank pulley bolt, this would of put a lot of pressure on the camshaft and you may have sheared the pin that locates the camshaft pulley to the camshaft thus putting the timing out(i have known one to brake). Before you try any more you need to make sure the timing is right and check camshaft pulley is in the correct place.

[Tiger13]

Ok after trying different things from the advice given im still stick, I thought I may ave flooded the engine so tried some online tips, I have the induction hose/filter off at the moment (Have tried with it on too) it just seems to puff out smoke from there when I try and turn it over, With a spray of easy start it just kinda backfires out of the induction and blows flames but nothing in the engine trying to start, Maybe compression? I really dont know and it's a lot more involved by the seems of things than I had ever intended!

[mowgli]

ok. seek professional help.

[Tiger13]

So I cant repair it then?

[mowgli]

if the engine has been bolted together correctly, & it is timed up ok, then it should run straight away. as yours is not, and you don't seem to be making any progress, get a mechanic to look at it.

[Tiger13]

Thats kinda just giving up though and defies the point of being a member of an owners forum? lol!!, Your probably right though Il probably end up selling this one as is and buying another or buying a new engine!

[mowgli]

we can only go on the info you have provided & going by that, it probably needs someone with some better diagnostic tools to have a look..

edit.. did you clean out the cam followers when you stripped the head?

[pie]

dude do you want me to pop over n take a look you about 20 drive from me ?

you must supply tea n biscuits tho? f lol

[burgo]

did no body else see the picture he posted? there was two collets, which surgested so how a snapped valve for them to fall out. i cant for the life of me work out what the hell you must have been doing but it seems head off and inspected by someone with half a clue is the best step forward

[pie]

wont take 5 mins to wip the head off :)

[Jon_nova1]

Heres my suggestion, the valve that had the snapped arm on it, how does it sit? your either missing a collet from one side of it or your valve isn't actually connected to the spring, if this is the case then i would suggest putting cylinder 3? to top dead centre and using a valve spring compressor to put it back into place....assuming it hasn't snapped

I would then suggest taking out spark plug number one, and hand turning the engine over until your top and bottom pulleys are on the timing marks, this should be easy as the cambelt is on, then put a long screwdriver down cylinder one through the spark plug hole, then hand turning the engine again, the screwdriver should start going down the spark plug hole as soon as you start turning it, if it doesn't then the timing is out, if it goes up straight away then the cam timing is out by 180 degrees if it is you would have to align your timing marks, take your cambelt off and rotate your crank one revolution until it gets back to its timing mark.

If it still doesn't start then you would want to check the timing on the distributor side, at one point you will have piston one at top dead centre and you will know it is top dead centre, take the dizzy cap off and the rotor arm should be pretty much be where the contact is for spark plug number one, but before looking where the HT lead for spark plug one is make sure the HT leads are in the right place.

If you can get your hands on a compression tester use that, although if none of the above works then you have been trying to undo the crank bolt with the timing wrong. The car would still start on 3 cylinders but if you've bent all the valves then it won't start at all, so get a compression tester when you've exhausted the above list and it won't start.

And not to sound horrible or anything but stop being a ****tard and spraying easystart down it, if its not starting then its something you haven't done right, easy start is used by people that can't be arsed fixing engines, anyone with competence would look for the reason they can't start the car, theres no point in keeping cranking an engine because the problem still exists, engines are easy, air/fuel in, compression, ignition, burnt fuel expelled, if your car won't start its missing one of these. If you paid attention when putting the engine back together then you should know which one of these you definately will have so check what you haven't got