View Full Version : Welding, and a "first" go with my new one..
scott.parker
17-03-12, 08:45 PM
So i bought a welder on Tuesday from ebay, it's about 10-12 years old i think?? not sure, it's a clack 100E and it's in very very good condition..
So i decided it needed some new wire, and a Gas bottle, so i popped to helfruads and got some stuff, got Argon/CO2 mix as i didn't know what to get between just CO2 or just Argon so whent for mixed..?
So got back and set it all up.. (i did do some "welding" once before but it was poor, im a total novice to it really)
Then decide to see if i could get it to weld two parts of some 1.5 steel i had to hand..
After a quick fiddle with with feed speed/gas supply etc i got a setting where i didn't spit much and sounded like it was just hissing (meant to be about right) any heres how the bits i had a go on, and my fail, and then i thought i would see if could brake the weld..
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5232/dscf4317e.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4852/dscf4318q.jpg
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/8478/dscf4319d.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6731/dscf4320q.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9729/dscf4321x.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1732/dscf4323d.jpg
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9048/dscf4324r.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/378/dscf4325z.jpg
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8678/dscf4326.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9969/dscf4327k.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1896/dscf4333j.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2117/dscf4331e.jpg
Then here's my fail, i got the tip too close! lol got some more inserts though..
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9793/dscf4330j.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5198/dscf4329y.jpg
With a bit of more faffing with settings and experimenting and practice i should be able to get there and do my own welding..
Scott
Gotta start somewhere chief, doesnt look to bad to be fair. A dash site better than my 1st attempt, all be it i bought a no gas welder but found this to be no good really for these wee rot boxes we all love to hate :d
davidfox280585
17-03-12, 08:51 PM
fair play scott got to start somewhere im not the best but i think half of it is my welder is garbage
Just a tip mate, make sure the 2 surfaces you are welding are clean and free from rust etc, mig welders don't like dirty metal :)
Argon mix is ideal, I use a argonshield gas called cougar gas, usually pure argon gas is used welding alloy, pure co can be used on mild steel but stick with the mix for best results.
Maybe look up the mig welding forum for a few tips aswell.
scott.parker
17-03-12, 08:57 PM
Cheers guys, well i thought it's long over due, im sick of asking/getting others do work for me, and have seen some of the member on here doing it, and getting good results so thought sod it!
Might help if the steel was not so rusty too..
Cheers guys, well i thought it's long over due, im sick of asking/getting others do work for me, and have seen some of the member on here doing it, and getting good results so thought sod it!
Might help if the steel was not so rusty too..
Yup, as long as were gonna have novas were gonna need to be able to weld. Its part & parcel lol
turn you wire speed up if your melting the tips. can see from your pics that you main problem is dirty/rusty metal. get some clean stuff and try again
Royston
17-03-12, 09:22 PM
I also use cougar gas, when welding, argo/co2 mix is better than pure co2.
Practice makes perfect, as mentioned.... clean metal for MIG welding;)
Frying bacon is the key :d
Count Vaux Alot
17-03-12, 09:59 PM
Frying bacon is the key :d
Does cooking pig help then? lol
if you plan on doing a lot of welding id get a refillable bottle. i had one of those small ones and i used it up in 5 hours.
Does cooking pig help then? lol
It does indeed, always works for me. Correct wire speed sounds most similar to frying bacon, guessing the setting scott had sounded a bit like a short circuit at a power station, and pops/farts is either too slow or really crap metal so it's not actually sparking at all until it finds a clean bit.
The best advice i could ever say is get a gas account and get a big bottle-FAR FAR better value.Then get a twin gauge regulator for flow and how much is remaining,try and weld like for eg if from left to right use the nozzle like this )))))))))))))))))) and from right to left like ((((((((((((((((((((((( Gas flow is the most important part and most think its line speed.
In them pics it looks like its too hot and not enough gas-nowhere near,your only guessing with those little ones which is why there only good for tacking really.
Clickme (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/mig.htm)
have a look at that site, it helped me out quite a bit when i had to learn again.
Oh and another thing-if your outside,on a breezy day you literally are pissing in the wind bud.The gas gets blown away.
The best advice i could ever say is get a gas account and get a big bottle-FAR FAR better value.Then get a twin gauge regulator for flow and how much is remaining,try and weld like for eg if from left to right use the nozzle like this )))))))))))))))))) and from right to left like ((((((((((((((((((((((( Gas flow is the most important part and most think its line speed.
In them pics it looks like its too hot and not enough gas-nowhere near,your only guessing with those little ones which is why there only good for tacking really.
I could never even get enough flow out of them to work properly, although I do seem to like more gas than most people for some reason. I can chew through those little bottles with low fill pressure in about 15-20 minutes lol
Push/pull technique on welding is personal preference imo rather than right/wrong, pretty sure the site bubba linked has tested both and found no real difference, I tend to swap depending what I'm doing and where.
Count Vaux Alot
17-03-12, 10:33 PM
It does indeed, always works for me. Correct wire speed sounds most similar to frying bacon, guessing the setting scott had sounded a bit like a short circuit at a power station, and pops/farts is either too slow or really crap metal so it's not actually sparking at all until it finds a clean bit.
I was joking...
I'm sure you were, just wasn't sure if Scott knew the frying bacon thing :p
blue_peg_16v
17-03-12, 11:01 PM
Dave keeps threatening to teach me that's a job for. 1 night this week and the green 206'of doom
autoworksnovasport
17-03-12, 11:14 PM
remember you dont have to do a "run" small overlaped spot welds are just as good
remember you dont have to do a "run" small overlaped spot welds are just as good
On shi1t nova metal this is the only way
Their foil panels warp in the sun nevermind being struck wi' welders lol
brainsnova
17-03-12, 11:21 PM
I'm going to learn to weld cause when you own a ford it's a skill you need lol I bought a Clarke welder over 10 years ago and never learned how to use it.
As has already been said, get yourself a refillable bottle and a proper regulator. My bottle is full diameter half height (about 2 1/2 foot tall) and costs £3 a month to rent and £30 to fill. For indoors/ breeze free MIG you'll need around 13 l/min of gas, more if you're outside.
Again, no point trying to practice on rusty steel, leave that til you know what you're doing, get it cleaned up and try again
As for wire feed not being the most important thing, nonsense, it is, especially with cheaper welders, they tend to not like it at all if the feed isn't spot on, and you'll find that tiny adjustments can make a massive difference. I've never really thought the correct speed sounds anything like frying bacon myself, but a fairly fast consistent crackle is what you're after. If i have some scrap steel floating about I'll do a quick vid at some point so people can see and hear for themselves. Also, just to confuse matters, wire too slow can behave in a very similar way to wire too fast when you're not far from perfect.
Haynes do a welding manual now, not read it myself yet but will probably be a pretty good reference, rather than the opinions of a hundred online exper.......... amateurs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7CJwS5isrQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
More videos from this guy may give you tips, note the metal he welds in this isn't paper thin tin, that's a better way to start practicing as its harder to melt or blow through meaning you can get more time to play.
Amateurs? Im qualified pal thanks.
Wire feed is something you can only setup by personal preference,theres no textbook wire rate as everbody is welding at different speeds.
welding is like making love to a beautiful woman..first off you get it splattering all over the place, but with practise you will learn to get it just right.
there is no 100% by the book way to learn, just get a heap of offcuts & lock yourself away to practice.. start off with some thickish stuff, then once you can master that, learn to do the thinner stuff. you will end up with a decent base setting that suits you, then alter it slightly to suit the job.
BRoadGhost
18-03-12, 01:34 PM
You need to use more gas - it's that simple.
Amateurs? Im qualified pal thanks.
Wire feed is something you can only setup by personal preference,theres no textbook wire rate as everbody is welding at different speeds.
You will do well to listen to Andy here Scott, he spent months at college learning to weld properly and gaining his qualifications as he wanted to do it right, do it once and have it last, ive seen the welds Andy did on what is now my shell, and theyre perfect imo (yes i know im not a welder) the penetration was symmetrical on all them from the inside of the car, i wouldnt say he was an internet 'exper.......... amateur' at all:thumb:
not bad for first time scott :thumb:
Looks to need a bit more Gas mate, other than that, not bad!
As has already been said, get yourself a refillable bottle and a proper regulator. My bottle is full diameter half height (about 2 1/2 foot tall) and costs £3 a month to rent and £30 to fill. For indoors/ breeze free MIG you'll need around 13 l/min of gas, more if you're outside.
mines rent free :D £50 deposit, £35 a refill then get £40 back when i take it back and dont get a refill
mine started with 2000psi its now at 1400 and ive done loads of welding with that.
£50 deposit but you only get £40 back? And you're not paying any kind of rent you say... lol
Andy and Spud, did I direct my comments at anyone in particular? No, so wind your necks in. There will, however, on every thread like this, til the end of time, be a whole heap of 'internet experts' who once managed what they believe is a half decent job with their Aldi Thursday special tools giving their tuppence worth when really it'd be best left to those with some expertise on the subject.
Like someone who's been to college and learnt properly like Andy, or like someone who's been working at the highest levels in motorsport for the last 10 years in the field being discussed
LMFAO, did i aim my comment at you, no, did i name you and aim my comment at you, no so i suggest you take your own advice there, i did however use your comment as a basis for my comment giving Scott advice and merely pointing out that Andy is not a keyboard engineer with no basis or knowledge to offer advice from!
Stop taking everything as a dig toward you and take a step back and read it from a different point of view, and stop being stroppy, Andy never suggested you wind your neck in or anything similar, he merely said 'im qualified pal' not everything you read on here, or indeed on the internet is abuse toward you, so please stop taking it as such, thankyou.
scott.parker
19-04-12, 06:08 PM
Sooo...
I decided to give the welder a slight service, as in i cleaned and oiled the feed bearing/wheel and also got some new 0.8 tips and 0.8 wire to try, so sorted it all out and had a quick go..
Dont think it's too bad considering lol
I'll keep trying till i get it better before i go on the Loon..
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9646/dscf4506v.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9626/dscf4498h.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6720/dscf4499h.jpg
Tryed wellding the back edge too! lol
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1032/dscf4505z.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3627/dscf4504r.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6974/dscf4503w.jpg
Scott
What speed are you welding on?
scott.parker
19-04-12, 06:20 PM
What speed are you welding on?
4 to 4 1/2 ish on the dial and on speed 1 i think?
paul080803
19-04-12, 06:24 PM
Fair play for having a go! I have had my welder for about 6 months, need to get my **** into gear and practice!!!!
novarobbo
19-04-12, 06:27 PM
it would be ALOT easier if you had a 130amp + welder ;)
4 to 4 1/2 ish on the dial and on speed 1 i think?
Sounds stupid i know, but put the speed up a lil as your not using piss think metal.
i'm no way an expert but that looks like there isn't enough gas there, also looks like you need to slow down a bit on the one in the 'v'
it would be ALOT easier if you had a 130amp + welder ;)
And why's that then??
Does that make you learn faster or summat??
duh, more amps = more learns......obviously! :)
scott.parker
20-04-12, 01:06 PM
i'm no way an expert but that looks like there isn't enough gas there, also looks like you need to slow down a bit on the one in the 'v'
Was with Gas on full lol and yep i was a bit all over the shop on the V side, but on the other side i used both hands to steady my aim etc, I'll keep trying till i feel happy with how its going etc.
Also instead of just welding along in a line like -------- try doing this shape when you go along with the nozzle ))))))))))))))))))))
scott.parker
20-04-12, 03:10 PM
Just been watching some youtube Vids, now i get what i meant to do! lol Cant wait to give it a go, if the weather holds off i will try some...
duh, more amps = more learns......obviously! :)
HAHA awesome lol lol
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm
not too plug a place but theres some nice little vids etc on there to help
paddy quinn
20-04-12, 04:49 PM
speed on 6n a half setting 2 and max
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae121/paddyq85/16042012121.jpg
scott.parker
20-04-12, 05:46 PM
Right, Ive just been and tried again after watching some Vid's earlier, and im well happy with my progress from yesterdays efforts! lol
Got to go out in a min to pick the missis up, but i will try get the pics uploaded later...
Was with Gas on full lol and yep i was a bit all over the shop on the V side, but on the other side i used both hands to steady my aim etc, I'll keep trying till i feel happy with how its going etc.
Hi Scott I am a fabricator/welder its a pity you stay way too far from me as I could of gave you a hand. When welding you have to make sure you are in a comfy position. If you can lean your body against something or rest your elbows on something to steady yourself it will be a big help. The speed that you weld at has to be just right to the setting that you have on your welder. When mig welding always push the weld when welding on the flat so the gas shields the weld. But when welding vertical on sheet metal keep the setting low and weld from top to bottom with the torch facing upwards and in this position the speed of your hand will have to be alot faster as the weld will run with gravity. When welding overhead the settings must also be low and speed of hand will be slow (watch and not get burnt with and drips). Weaving when welding ( )))))))) ) will never be needed with sheet metal this is more for thicker steel with maybe a gap to fill. To be honest the diy type mig plants are never the best for a novice as they are sometimes hard to get a happy medium setting. If I were you I would look to buy a mig that takes the full size drum of wire as its easier to get the setting for what you need spot on. Anyway good luck I am sure you will get there in the end....:thumb:
Pistol Pete
20-04-12, 05:56 PM
Coming along Scott. As has already been mentioned, slow you moves down and allow the mig to settle. All comes with practice mate.
scott.parker
20-04-12, 09:59 PM
Right, Ive just been and tried again after watching some Vid's earlier, and im well happy with my progress from yesterdays efforts! lol
Got to go out in a min to pick the missis up, but i will try get the pics uploaded later...
Hi Scott I am a fabricator/welder its a pity you stay way too far from me as I could of gave you a hand. When welding you have to make sure you are in a comfy position. If you can lean your body against something or rest your elbows on something to steady yourself it will be a big help. The speed that you weld at has to be just right to the setting that you have on your welder. When mig welding always push the weld when welding on the flat so the gas shields the weld. But when welding vertical on sheet metal keep the setting low and weld from top to bottom with the torch facing upwards and in this position the speed of your hand will have to be alot faster as the weld will run with gravity. When welding overhead the settings must also be low and speed of hand will be slow (watch and not get burnt with and drips). Weaving when welding ( )))))))) ) will never be needed with sheet metal this is more for thicker steel with maybe a gap to fill. To be honest the diy type mig plants are never the best for a novice as they are sometimes hard to get a happy medium setting. If I were you I would look to buy a mig that takes the full size drum of wire as its easier to get the setting for what you need spot on. Anyway good luck I am sure you will get there in the end....:thumb:
Coming along Scott. As has already been mentioned, slow you moves down and allow the mig to settle. All comes with practice mate.
So from my earlier reply, heres what i did after watching tow 25 min vids for help, on the vids the guy said about time scales of how long it takes for penetration and eoat to fuse metal etc, and said that heat management is the most important thing EG if welding 4mm to 2mm heat the 4mm up with a blow torch prier to welding on it to make it easier etc..
So with his ideas in my head and seeing different techniques of how to weld i whent off and ha d a fiddle, first going back to the basics, a penetrative spot weld..
so here's that..
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9836/dscf4511s.jpg
Then there was a bit about your settings and your sweep speed of how quick, steady you move the nozzle, so i did few practices of that.
1st was a bit iffy as i whent to fast in the middle part, i could hear this also now.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4302/dscf4516t.jpg
2nd go i got it more stable and kept it same sort of size thickness along it etc..
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9297/dscf4517v.jpg
From there i whent on to spot two parts together ready for welding a seam.
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1062/dscf4512l.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7296/dscf4513w.jpg
Then attempt 1 at a seam using lest speed wire and lower amps then before, a nice steady curving swept path..
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7973/dscf4518.jpg
Didnt come out to bad, till i tried to fill any holes up! But better then yesterdays..
So before i packed away i had one more last go at it, and this IMO came out pretty good when you think how bad it was yesterday! lol
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8387/dscf4519.jpg
And from the back it looks like so..
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8951/dscf4521m.jpg
bit more practice with different thicknesses and more on this thin stuff and im happy with my progress.
Scott
It looks like your welds are penetrating the steel. That means the welds that you are producing have a serious hold well done! (I am not taking the the piss btw). To weld sheet metal or car chassis a continous lap spot weld would be most appropriate and can be achieved easily on the setting that you have. That means a start and stop weld leaving about half a second between you pressing an depressing the trigger on your mig gun to keep the the weld hot but not too hot to burn through the steel. Try this method and see what like:thumb:. Any more advice ge me a shout:).
bloody hell dude you picking it up very well :thumb:
scott.parker
20-04-12, 10:50 PM
It looks like your welds are penetrating the steel. That means the welds that you are producing have a serious hold well done! (I am not taking the the piss btw). To weld sheet metal or car chassis a continous lap spot weld would be most appropriate and can be achieved easily on the setting that you have. That means a start and stop weld leaving about half a second between you pressing an depressing the trigger on your mig gun to keep the the weld hot but not too hot to burn through the steel. Try this method and see what like:thumb:. Any more advice ge me a shout:).
Thanks Ewan, will do mate, cheers.
bloody hell dude you picking it up very well :thumb:
Cheers dude, guess being a Carpenter (eg some one with an eye and use to working manually/skilled etc) is helping, as i think if i was a pencil pusher it might be not so easy lol although now im a parcel pusher!
that one last go looks good.
paddy quinn
21-04-12, 01:30 AM
gettin there pal
Welds are looking much better.
scott.parker
24-04-12, 07:39 PM
more ding of weld
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4683/dscf4523l.jpg
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3883/dscf4527j.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/944/dscf4526j.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/568/dscf4528vl.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/488/dscf4529g.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6510/dscf4532vy.jpg
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6053/dscf4533n.jpg
getting there...way i see it is it can look like cap but as long as it joins its all good...can be ground smooth anyway lol
Jeff16v
24-04-12, 08:21 PM
Well done Scott, Looks good to me, I'm a pen pusher though! :)
Good stuff,well done.
So did you invest in a gazillion skynet watt welder or just practise and practise?! lol
Half the internet welders on here tell you that you need the power of the national grid to weld glorified foil.
Half the internet welders on here tell you that you need the power of the national grid to weld glorified foil.
This.
Dont care what anyone says, you can get brilliant results with a 90amp, less pentration on the thick stuff admitaddly but still top none the less.
Count Vaux Alot
24-04-12, 10:12 PM
Well said Andy, most metal used on cars is waifer thin. all my welding is done with a 160A and i rearly need more than that (only for heavy fabrication)
Scott when you do a but like some of your practices try leaving a small gap between the two sheets of material (no bigger than the thickness of the wire your using) this will help flatten the weld. its useful when repairing body panels as the weld can be ground flat with out breaking the joint again as there is welded metal between the two bits of material not just sat on top.
scott.parker
22-08-14, 02:18 PM
Bumps for refrance for sleeve.
When mig welding to start with make sure the the wire is feeding through the torch smoothly and you have gas running through. If the wire isn't running through smoothly check the wheels to make sure they are gripping the wire (it doesn't need to be too tight) Also check the torch tip, maybe take that off and see if the wire feeds through smoother. Lastly if that doesn't work it might be the liner. That's the inside of the torch wire. Hold that straight then press the trigger . If it feeds through smoother then its a new liner you need. A liner can be replaced easily and is basically a tight long coiled spring and can get clogged with small shavings of mig wire or kinked if you reel the cable up too tight when you put it away.There is no need for an excess amount of gas. I cant remember the pressure rate so just test it say halfway on the gauge and turn it down to the point that you don't get porosity (that's an aero bubble type weld). If you are welding outside and the is a breeze then you need more gas as the gas is to shield the weld so a breeze will blow that away. Start welding on a piece of scrap steel. If the wire bunches up and lights up red you need more amps/volts. If the wire burns but melts the steel you need more wire. So either turn the amps/volts up or wire speed down. You can get a mate to do this while trial welding. The speed that you move the torch depends on how high you have the amps/volts set. Move faster for higher power, slower for lower power. Mig welding is really easy to learn with just a couple of pointers. Just to let you guys know I am a plater welder and welding is a very small part of my job so exact settings I couldn't tell you. But I know physically how to set a mig and weld. I hope I have not lost anyone and have made sense! Any questions just ask.
Also with gas mig push the weld meaning have the torched faced in the direction of your weld so the gas is shielding and pushing the weld. With gasless mig drag the the torch away from the weld so you don't get flux inclusions in the weld which would give you porosity (aero bubble weld).
Thats really well written and sound advice for people who want to learn about it.
Plus rep.
Thats really well written and sound advice for people who want to learn about it.
Plus rep.
Cheers Andy. Any questions I will answer the best I can. Cheers for the +rep ;)
scott.parker
22-08-14, 08:38 PM
Not read through your reply yet, I only bumped this thread so I could use it to copy over into Steve's thread, for a few reasons, a) so he could see my attempts, b) it's got loads of useful reply to any questions he might have..
I'll go read you post now.
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