Has anyone done a X18XE/XE1 Turbo??

[scott.parker]

As per title im thinking and looking at 18xe/xe1 turbo etc, and Ive searched the net and found a few thread on Astra's and Vectra's, but im thinking make it your self budget wise, as im not splashing 4K with regal ripoffs! lol

[Edd]

Corsa VXR turbo/mani bolt up to that head ? That would be a good start

Would it not be better using a 1600 xe? Corsa vxr pistons fit then

Otherwise your looking at custom pistons or spacer plate

[scott.parker]

Maybe, just thought the X18Xe/Xe1 would be something different..

[MK999]

X18XE and the XE1 are different engines, first is big block, last is small block which is the one you want
Z16LEH turbo and manifold bolts up but they're not amazing and you're better off with a garrett imo, standard intake manifold is tosh so make your own up.
Standard CR is 10.5 to 1 so fine for low boost and the bottom end will handle 220bhp easily as standard. Despite the fact people swap out the rods as C16XE ones look bigger, the 18XE1 ones are sintered forged to give some idea of the potential of them similar ones in a VW 1.8T take 600bhp and about 9000+ RPM happily with much heavier pistons, so if you're looking for more than that just a low comp piston swap should suffice.
Management wise it depends how pikey you wanna make it, you'll need an AFPR anyway as the donor cars don't run one (its on the pump) so could use a rising rate, standard ECU's aren't the best for remapping and lots of them spit out their insides after a few months for some reason, so ideal solution is standalone.
The heads are awesome so you won't be needing much boost to get good power out of it with a half decent inlet, if you want to go over 7000 RPM though some work is needed as the gearbox's spit themselves out and the valves fall apart around there.

[Novasport]

The 18XE is a longer stroke so should be a taller block. I am sure the rods are the same as an X16XE so if you were to replace the crank with an X16XE one would you not lower the compression enough to enable a turbo to be bolted straight on. Although it would no longer be 1800cc it would still be over 1700cc I would have thought due to the 1.5mm larger piston than a X16XE.
Might be wrong, just thinking out loud.

[MK999]

16xe crank should fit if you wanted to go that route as well. I've come across a build before that was 18xe1 bits in a 16xe

[Mark]

Guy on corsasport does Z18XE turbo conversions £3000 drive in drive out.

The kit will fit the X18XE1 too.

[scott.parker]

So MK your saying i need the engine out my Astra cobbled together with 16leh inlet a garrett turbo, and say a Dblis flowtec type inlet, slap on some ARP rod bolts, then find out the best ECU set up to go for?

Humm price for all that, if i use my Astra engine? lol

[Edd]

X18XE and the XE1 are different engines, first is big block, last is small block which is the one you want
Z16LEH turbo and manifold bolts up but they're not amazing and you're better off with a garrett imo, standard intake manifold is tosh so make your own up.
Standard CR is 10.5 to 1 so fine for low boost and the bottom end will handle 220bhp easily as standard. Despite the fact people swap out the rods as C16XE ones look bigger, the 18XE1 ones are sintered forged to give some idea of the potential of them similar ones in a VW 1.8T take 600bhp and about 9000+ RPM happily with much heavier pistons, so if you're looking for more than that just a low comp piston swap should suffice.
Management wise it depends how pikey you wanna make it, you'll need an AFPR anyway as the donor cars don't run one (its on the pump) so could use a rising rate, standard ECU's aren't the best for remapping and lots of them spit out their insides after a few months for some reason, so ideal solution is standalone.
The heads are awesome so you won't be needing much boost to get good power out of it with a half decent inlet, if you want to go over 7000 RPM though some work is needed as the gearbox's spit themselves out and the valves fall apart around there.

Did you miss the bit where Scott was saying he wanted to do it on a budget ? lol

Corsa vxr turbo and mani can be bought new for £400, ALOT less thank a Garrett and custom mani, plus who says the units are crap?

[scott.parker]

Guy on corsasport does Z18XE turbo conversions £3000 drive in drive out.

The kit will fit the X18XE1 too.

LOL i would do that if i was going to use it in my Astra and keep the car, but not if im planning using this engine in the Saloon..

[Tom-Tank]

Guy on corsasport does Z18XE turbo conversions £3000 drive in drive out.

The kit will fit the X18XE1 too.
Thats my mate who does that, very good conversions will see 220bhp+ on a standard inlet manifold and t25 hybrid turbo

[Mark]

LOL i would do that if i was going to use it in my Astra and keep the car, but not if im planning using this engine in the Saloon..


No, appreciate that, was just pointing out that it has been done. His price is aimed at Corsa C SRI 1800 owners that wish to keep their cars, not us Nova owners with an xe1..lol

[MK999]

Did you miss the bit where Scott was saying he wanted to do it on a budget ? lol

Corsa vxr turbo and mani can be bought new for £400, ALOT less thank a Garrett and custom mani, plus who says the units are crap?

Best check out how much a decent T25 can be had out of an S14a then as I've seen them for a lot less than £400. Given they will do a range from 180 to 280bhp happily compared to the 200 to 240 or something the crappy KKK thing with it's cracky cast manifold can handle, I say they're crap compared to a good T25.

Making up your own inlet is time and some cash in materials, depends how much you can find a tig welder for but if you get stuck I know of one that works for about £25 an hour, so about £100ish for that.
Exhaust wise you might be able to use the standard manifold and a flange for ultra budget, but I'd use an S14 fancy or even standard manifold and lop the flange off for a new one, so you can get that with the turbo for £250-300ish for a recently refurbed unit.
Engine and rebuild parts with the 16XE crank if you wanted to drop the compression a bit, about £600 or so (engine 200, parts £3-400 and a crank say you had to get a bottom end to get hold of, £100)
Then a good AFPR, management and a good mapping session is the major expense really, probably about 1500+ for all that.

So that puts you at about £2500 or so plus odd consumables etc.

[Edd]

A T25 out of a 15 year old S14a is not going to be decent imo

[MK999]

get that with the turbo for £250-300ish for a recently refurbed unit.


A T25 out of a 15 year old S14a is not going to be decent imo

As above. I looked at the compressor maps, cost, availiability and reliability issues of both, and for the range of power you can work an x18xe1 turbo to with limited mods, the T25 came out on top for availability, reliability, cost and power potential/suitability.

[Edd]

So a vxr turbo/mani for £400 is going to be cheaper then?

[MK999]

So a vxr turbo/mani for £400 is going to be cheaper then?

According to my maths £250-300 is a lot less than £400? When I was looking at prices I actually saw one sold on a manifold for £180 so that's a conservative estimate. If you factor it in the 2-3 replacements with cracked manifolds over the lifetime of the car (Which you can't replace, they are part of the turbine housing) which is quite common with increased performance standard VXR turbos, probably something to do with that power range I mentioned earlier being exceeded, it's a hell of a lot less.

[Edd]

By the time you get a custom mani done thats going to be over £400 for sure

Havnt seen loads of reports with cracking like the early Z let mani either

[MK999]

According to my maths £250-300 is a lot less than £400? When I was looking at prices I actually saw one sold on a manifold for £180 so that's a conservative estimate. If you factor it in the 2-3 replacements with cracked manifolds over the lifetime of the car (Which you can't replace, they are part of the turbine housing) which is quite common with increased performance standard VXR turbos, probably something to do with that power range I mentioned earlier being exceeded, it's a hell of a lot less.


By the time you get a custom mani done thats going to be over £400 for sure

Again, as above. Most 200sx owners sell them on the manifold as it doesn't suit their new turbo.

[Edd]

So that mani will bolt straight on to a 1600/1800 head then? Im thinking not, therefore the mani will be useless

[MK999]

I'm not gonna carry on searching back and quoting my posts lol Somewhere up above though it basically says: "Cut flange off, put new one on." It is entirely possible it needs a bit of bending or extending before you can use it as I only got as far as comparing one on a friends S14a to rough dimensions, but it's 95% there and very much a viable option.

If you really want to build one with the standard KKK turbo and manifold no one is stopping you, I'm just giving Scott another, cheaper, higher performance, more reliable option.

[Edd]

Ok, but the cheaper option your suggesting isnt cheaper, and as for being more reliable thats very debatable as well

Just different opinions I guess :)

[nova_stee]

Garret t2 turbo tubular manifold intercooler and mapped at mpg = 210-250 bhp theres a few done on corsa-c uk

[Tom-Tank]

Garret t2 turbo tubular manifold intercooler and mapped at mpg = 210-250 bhp theres a few done on corsa-c uk
Correct my mate runs WG Motorworks who do the conversions

Also im not sure about the X18XE but i know on the Z18XE that you can fit a Corsa VXR Manifold and Turbo if you make the stud holes slightly bigger but the Turbo would foul the Oil Filter and even with a remote filter take off you will need to space the manifold away from the head

[peester]

As said you need to speak to warren g. Corsasport, Corsa-c or Mig. Good prices for drive in- drive out if he offers some warrenty.
I think if you were up for the job yourself, you wouldnt have asked..?

[joshy]

Stick with the standard exhaust mani and grab an M45 or M62 Blower off a VX220.

Cheap mig'ed mount and some silicone hoses and your away.

[Stuart]

Stick with the standard exhaust mani and grab an M45 or M62 Blower off a VX220.


yeah they all left the factory with those fitted lol
I know SC'ing the VX is popular but its far far far far from cheap to do to a non Z22 base engine.


Scott, I'd stick with stock compression ratio, get a T25 and decent exhaust manifold, Get a Microsquirt system (or use your DTA ;) ) get a Jenvey Plenum and inlet manifold for your TB's and away you go :) Oh add in the fmic lol

[joshy]

yeah they all left the factory with those fitted lol
I know SC'ing the VX is popular but its far far far far from cheap to do to a non Z22 base engine.


I didnt say they did :p

Other than mounting and installing a drive to the charger unit. SC'ing is no more costly than a turbo. arguably maybe cheaper due to not needing a new exhaust manifold (for moderate power increases at least)

Lee303 built a SC'ed X18XE1 and that really put up good numbers

[Stuart]

What I meant was since no VX left the factory with a charger, the ones that do have them are 'modded' so the only chance of getting one off is if someone nails the car into a tree or upgrades to the Harrop to get away from the hEaton lol. It would be cheaper to get one from the USA but even then the unit alone is about a grand + ancillaries, supercharging isnt necessarily the cheaper option to be fair.

[Hobbit]

Best check out how much a decent T25 can be had out of an S14a then as I've seen them for a lot less than £400.

S14/S14a came with a T28, is the S13 that came with the T25 :thumb:

edit, unless its an import with a redtop (boom lol) thats the only SR20det that came with T25

[joshy]

What I meant was since no VX left the factory with a charger

ah, my error and i stand corrected :thumb:

But I stand by my point that supercharging can be just as easy and cheap as turbocharging.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eaton-45-Supercharger-Universal-inlet-port-easier-mounting-/250970580953?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6f0327d9

[mowgli]

thats some nasty looking manifold... it must play havoc with the flow..

i was looking at just where would you fit a coopercharger on a nova.... and it would need some amazing work to fit tidily into an engine bay.. maybe by removing the alternator & fitting something clever (see PPC mag article on supercharged xflow with jap alternator fitted onto the eaton output shaft) but the rad side of the engine would be trouble unless you custom fit an exhaust to clear it....

[scott.parker]

As said you need to speak to warren g. Corsasport, Corsa-c or Mig. Good prices for drive in- drive out if he offers some warrenty.
I think if you were up for the job yourself, you wouldnt have asked..?

TBH Dave i asked as Ive looked and google comes back with stuff on vectra forums and expensive shizz to regal etc, so i was seeing if any one had any info or ideas of how it can be done "cheapish" before i start looking for an engine etc.
As if the 1.6xe can be done easier and cheaper I'll probably go that way.
And on this one i WANT to try do everything my self!

[Tom-Tank]

TBH Dave i asked as Ive looked and google comes back with stuff on vectra forums and expensive shizz to regal etc, so i was seeing if any one had any info or ideas of how it can be done "cheapish" before i start looking for an engine etc.
As if the 1.6xe can be done easier and cheaper I'll probably go that way.
And on this one i WANT to try do everything my self!
I know warren would sell the Turbo and Mani and Downpipe Fully Rebuilt for about £900 then the rest is fairly straight forward

[MK999]

S14/S14a came with a T28, is the S13 that came with the T25 :thumb:

edit, unless its an import with a redtop (boom lol) thats the only SR20det that came with T25

I stand erected. One I was looking at definitely said S14, maybe thats why it was cheap, not many people searching for it lol

[peester]

Yeah scott, as said - i dont think he'd mind just supplying parts and advice. Worth dropping him a pm.
Dont know if youve seen this or helps much but heres a thread he posted up on aoc
http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php?t=342473

[craig green]

This Australian smallblock 1800 turbo was posted on MIG a few years ago, Plenum looks quality. Over 300bhp iirc.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/turbocraig/forum%20Novas/18CorsaT.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/turbocraig/forum%20Novas/18CorsaT2.jpg

[craig green]

Btw I reckon you should go for it, an engine project (aside from a car) is a neat way to learn about engine building. Get a stand & a donor lump, crack on!

I cant recomend the book 'Maximum Boost' by Corky Bell enough, to explain things in detail & give you ideas.

[Mieran]

I think its pointless tbh because by the time you put on a manifold/turbo/intercooler and big block box (cos f13/f15 can't take extra torque) it'll be about the same a 2.0 weight wise

[Bubba]

I think its pointless tbh because by the time you put on a manifold/turbo/intercooler and big block box (cos f13/f15 can't take extra torque) it'll be about the same a 2.0 weight wise

its different though. there are very few things that haven't been done, or are rarely done because there are easier things to do.

[Mieran]

If I was to turbo a XE1 or Z18 I would keep it in an astra

[scott.parker]

Meh, i dont want big block weight though, im looking small/nibble and no under steer just as the nova was designed, i forgot these things till i got my 1.2 then i realised what i gave up...

Scott

[scott.parker]

If I was to turbo a XE1 or Z18 I would keep it in an astra

TBH this is for my Saloon project!

[Mieran]

There is a thread somewhere on aoc about someone turboing their x18xe1, hes running standard compression on vxr turbo with 7psi using vpower and says its been fine for 2 years, not even remapped

maf did not work before the turbo, it worked between turbo and tb though, weird

[craig green]

I've had 2 1600t's, F13/15's cope fine. Admittedly mapped properly & running 20psi & a massive spec turbo I think an F28 is prob necessary.

I would bet that one of these at 7psi & would waste an XE & probably post times near a LET powered car. My little 1.6 16v was pretty epic tbh.

[scott.parker]

Im swaying toward a e16seT at the mo, want light and lots of turbo power! lol

[craig green]

Still a good option, potentially the easiest in terms of how well much of the OE stuff lends to itself to the installation.

My take on it wrt putting a turbo on a smallblock is that ideally you would use a 16v to get the best efficiency through the head design, but then you have to consider the manifolds. The inlet is where the 16v's pose issues, ie wanting a Mantzel for an early motor or something custom made perhaps for the later engines/1800's in question. As for exh manifolds, the 8v is catered for with Courtenays manifolds (if you can find one) which isnt perfect, but thats where I would invest the most of the budget. Having a proper Tig'd up tubular manifold & likewise a good condition/quality turbocharger of known origin & spec. I would probably have the same on a 16v because the oil filter positioning on the block is a clearance issue for the exh downpipe with the VXR unit. Remote filter kits are still bulky.

So I see it that an 8v is cheapest option as you have a nice inlet manifold from the E16SE with a large TB you can probably adapt any TPS to fit.

I could go on but I'll see what comments the above generates. :-)

[scott.parker]

Plus i know where theres a good 1.6 8vT to copy from...humm i wonder!!

[gary_126]

Ive also been looking into this as its a very popular tuning route on the corsa c's, but as ive no motivation ive not done anything yet ha ha

[John]

have you not thought about a s/c 1.8? Lee303 did one in an astra g, very successful iirc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvbW1nuYRzE&list=UUL-cC3WEA5VqARy5zSWOoqA&index=2&feature=plcp

[Stuart]

Meh, i dont want big block weight though, im looking small/nibble and no under steer just as the nova was designed, i forgot these things till i got my 1.2 then i realised what i gave up...

Scott
A properly setup big block doesn't understeer unless provoked Into doing so :p

Anyhoooo sod the f28 for an old expensive bag of toss, f23 is the new weapon of choice

[Edd]

A properly setup big block doesn't understeer unless provoked Into doing so



nope there all crap


have you not thought about a s/c 1.8? Lee303 did one in an astra g, very successful iirc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvbW1nuYRzE&list=UUL-cC3WEA5VqARy5zSWOoqA&index=2&feature=plcp

i looked into this alot, not much chance of fitting a Eaton into a nova bay, only way i reckon a charger will fit is if you use a Rotrex and there mega bucks

[mowgli]

could you fit it where the alternator goes? then fit a little alternator on the back where the mini water pump fits??

[Stuart]

could you fit it where the alternator goes? then fit a little alternator on the back where the mini water pump fits??


technically yes. There is a chap with a VX who is thinking of compound charging his LET engine and will move the alternator to the other side but it will suffer with exhaust heat.

[mowgli]

well, it won't be any worse a mounting point than the mk3 astra gm diesel.... and the factory heat shield on the astra is abysmal

[Andy]

An eaton should fit in a nova bay if people are charging mini A series!

[mowgli]

precisely... even if someone has to fit a cross shaft so it can sit over the gearbox

[bazil]

precisely... even if someone has to fit a cross shaft so it can sit over the gearbox

This, I've seen a mk3 fiesta RS turbo with a supercharger fitted over the box with a shaft over the rocker cover to drive it,

[Stuart]

but hEatons are poo, Rotrex is where its at for mechanically driven forced induction.

[joshy]

but hEatons are poo, Rotrex is where its at for mechanically driven forced induction.

But the Rotrex and Eaton chargers are both different styles of supercharger.

The Eaton is a Root supercharger where as the Rotrex is just a mechanically driven centrifugal compreser section like a turbo charger. The Rotrex will have instant response but wont have the off-idle boost capability that a true roots blower has (unless you over-drive it like mad and vent excess boost and deal with the massive heat)

[Stuart]

The way the hEaton does its job generates massive heat when you up the boost, the Harrop TVS version of the same thing is much much better, but then you pays your money you makes your choices.

[Mieran]

Been doing some more reading on this and apparently you can get a Honda B16 turbo of ebay chop the flange off and weld a z18xe/x18xe1 one on and you're good to go

[joshy]

The way the hEaton does its job generates massive heat when you up the boost, the Harrop TVS version of the same thing is much much better, but then you pays your money you makes your choices.

The TVS superchargers are completely different to the M45-M112 chargers

The Harrop TVS chargers are still Eaton cores, They are Eatons 5th generation charger's which are much more thermally efficient.

the M45, M62, M90 and M112 were 4th generation Eatons which were much less efficient.

Eaton make the charger cores for Harrop, Roush, Magnuson and Edlelbrock.

Harrop dont make supercharger cores, they just stick there name on them and distibute them for Eaton.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Superchargers/index.htm

[novaboyopr]

havnt read all the thread but just to let scott know.
ive built a c16xe turbo for less then 1k i did price it all up but have lost it.
i used a 200sx manifold then had a flange laser cut and welded onto the 200sx manifold running a T25 which came off a renault 5.
had a pipe welded in the sump for the oil return and got the feed from the oil pressure switch round the back of the pump which worked fine.
i then had the inlet made (which is now for sale as you know)
i ran a headgasket spacer of 4mm and it ran fine with 12psi boost
off the top of my head it cost no more then 800 quid so can be done on a budget.

theres a few pics in my build thread.
have got a few more if you want me to email them to you
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/projects-restorations/457856-scrap-track-nova-build.html

[Mieran]

what did you do regarding fuel (injectors) and map ( what ecu)?

[novaboyopr]

ran x20xe injectors from a scrap yard. i acutally ran the standard ecu with an air mass meter on the turbo intake, the car ran lean at first but using a adjustable fuel pressure reg at 4 bar sorted that out :-)
it was on a budget and it wouldnt stretch to an ecu at the time.

i run my throttle bodies on megasquirt which isnt massively expensive if you wanted to run the engine on that.

[Mieran]

So this 200sx manifold does it have similar port spacing to a small block?

And whats the standard compression of a c16xe and what did a 4mm decompression lower it to? Did you sandwich it between 2 head gaskets?

[novaboyopr]

The 200sx manifold is very close apart from one port which was a simple job. cut a piece out and weld it back on, same as what people do when using them on c20lets. One other port needs g clamping and heating up to pull it closer to the number 2 port. The actual port size is pretty much identical.

The spacer was 4mm wedge between two head gaskets. Can't give you an exact compression drop but its enough to turbo it. Running Standard compression I think will be to much for it to last any amount of time.

[novaboyopr]

The 200sx manifold is very close apart from one port which was a simple job. cut a piece out and weld it back on, same as what people do when using them on c20lets. One other port needs g clamping and heating up to pull it closer to the number 2 port. The actual port size is pretty much identical.

The spacer was 4mm wedge between two head gaskets. Can't give you an exact compression drop but its enough to turbo it. Running Standard compression I think will be to much for it to last any amount of time.

[Tom-Tank]

On the Z18XE, Manifolds from Honda B16 Engines Mount Up Perfectly with the Ports they just need a Flange for the Exhasut Cutting off and Welding to the B16 Mani

[John]

So does the exhaust manifold from the x16xe fit the x18xe1?

[Stuart]

The spacer was 4mm wedge between two head gaskets. Can't give you an exact compression drop but its enough to turbo it. Running Standard compression I think will be to much for it to last any amount of time.


bollocks...
4mm is a MASSIVE drop in CR for these engines.
10:1 compression ratio shouldn't be feared for a turbo engine, intact it should be embraced!!! Although using a proper nasty way of fuelling will require the 4mm plate lol

[mowgli]

So does the exhaust manifold from the x16xe fit the x18xe1?

i think it does.

[novaboyopr]

bollocks...
4mm is a MASSIVE drop in CR for these engines.
10:1 compression ratio shouldn't be feared for a turbo engine, intact it should be embraced!!! Although using a proper nasty way of fuelling will require the 4mm plate lol


What's b0llocks? I agree it shouldn't be feared but for a 1.6 with weak internals not designed for boost, I wanted to drop it enough not to cause to much hassle and be reliable.

P.s your attitude stinks lol

[Stuart]

What's b0llocks? I agree it shouldn't be feared but for a 1.6 with weak internals not designed for boost, I wanted to drop it enough not to cause to much hassle and be reliable.

P.s your attitude stinks lol


You saying that running OEM compression (which will be circa 10:1) would be too much.... yes with pikey fuelling/ign control it would be, but with some common sense applied and some thinking it would be fine.

[peester]

So does the exhaust manifold from the x16xe fit the x18xe1?

the ports/branches line up. But studs will be out.

[novaboyopr]

You saying that running OEM compression (which will be circa 10:1) would be too much.... yes with pikey fuelling/ign control it would be, but with some common sense applied and some thinking it would be fine.

I didn't say it would be to much, but its risking it on standard internals which if its a budget build will most likely be.
Same with the fueling I was running standard management hence the spacer and adjustable fuel reg as send before it was a budget build and the budget wouldn't stretch to management at the time.

[steven.gillett.2]

Who is the guy that does the z18xe turbo conversions, and hoe do I contact him?

[Mxcrazy]

Wg motorworks, search facebook.