View Full Version : e16se still pinking
Curtoise
11-01-12, 10:52 PM
My e16 is still ****ing pinking, it is literally doing mu head in. What should the Ron plug be in ? 95 or 98 ? And what way is the top ?
The timing was set up perfectly on a strobe and it was pinking loads but it went really really well! But I had to retard the timing to make it pink less. But it still pinks !
What else could this be ?!
it's not pinking then as it will hold back when it's pinking/detonating, it will be trying to fire the pistons back down the bores. Mine had an odd rattle which sounded like pinking that I chased for weeks and eventually assumed was just exhaust/panels rattling apart under load.
Curtoise
11-01-12, 11:27 PM
Is there any way to deffinetly know it isn't pinking? Really does sound like it
also forgot to add that it only does this when it gets warm. and gets worse/louder when its hot.
doesnt do it from cold
It will struggle and hold back if its pinking, i guarantee you its that alternator if you havent changed it already ;)
tom reid
12-01-12, 08:12 AM
Check the lobes on the camshaft, a worm cam will cause pinking too.
Curtoise
12-01-12, 08:30 AM
I checked the loved when.I did the head they look fine. Right okay I'm buying a alt then at least I will know if.its that
Curtoise
12-01-12, 08:47 AM
connor you heard the noise yourself when we went for a drive in finchingfield?
right i have a couple of videos which you can JUST hear the sound in, i wouldnt bother trying to make out the vid as it blury but just listen :)
if it helps the noise occurs at low revs under load
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/th_VIDEO0078.jpg (http://s551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0078.mp4)
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/th_VIDEO0079.jpg (http://s551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0079.mp4)
Why do you think its pinking? Purely based on noise!?
Get a decent wideband kit/reader on it - that will tell you for sure
Curtoise
12-01-12, 04:57 PM
what is a wideband kit/ reader and where do i get them from? think motor electirc garages will have them?
just changed the alternator and its still f ing doing it
seriously, it could be anything.... as my sagas have shown, sometimes changing the most random item will fix it.
Curtoise
12-01-12, 05:35 PM
also now its using oil when booting it.
i am literally out of ideas
what do you mean using oil? white smoke out the back when your pinned?
ocdstigy
12-01-12, 05:57 PM
my corsa sport 16xe did the same,rings were gone,however it's a different engine and i'm no mechanic......
Curtoise
12-01-12, 06:46 PM
yeah i thought rings too. would probably be easier buying another 1.6 with lower miles, but i havnt given up yet! i havnt seen it when i boot it up a hill i see no smoke in my rear view....
yet people behind me tell me it blue smokes and black smokes abit. but then again its near enough a straight through with no cat and an old engine so i would expect some smoke.
also now when its cold it takes forever to come back down the revs.....
but when i pinch the pipe ontop of this thing (coasting air valve???) it goes down the revs fast as usual
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/IMAG0169.jpg
i also went to the scrappy to get a KA inlet pipe which fits nicely with no splits now :)
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/IMAG0171.jpg
but still when i feather the throttle it lurches about loads!?
could this be to do with these....
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/IMAG0170.jpg
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/IMAG0172.jpg
help is greatly apprecieated
what is a wideband kit/ reader and where do i get them from? think motor electirc garages will have them?
just changed the alternator and its still f ing doing it
The alternator would make no difference to pinking!? Wideband kits measure the air/fuel mixture properly. If its running lean (and pinking) you will melt a piston
ocdstigy
13-01-12, 10:34 AM
Who said an alternator would make a difference lol lol
Curtoise
13-01-12, 11:17 AM
Haha okay that does come across as retarded.
I changed the alt as the bearing had gone in it and it was noisy so I thought I could be mistaking that as pinking.....
Curtoise
13-01-12, 11:17 AM
Also wouldn't it run hot if it was lean?
ocdstigy
13-01-12, 11:25 AM
On my understanding pinking causes increased cylinder pressure....
im also on the understanding that pre-ignition would cause overheating......
simple things like a sharp edge on a piston or carbon deposits can cause problems,it's a never ending game to find out the problem,my mate has a snap-on bore camera that you can put down the spark plug hole to check the tops of pistons bores etc,if you could find somebody that would put 1 down to inspect them,might save stripping the engine???
Curtoise
13-01-12, 01:16 PM
Yeah I have a endoscope where I work could be worth a try, but I recently put a head gasket on it and inspected it then ? I went to Vauxhall today and they said they don't know and to come back when there master teck is back.
ocdstigy
13-01-12, 01:18 PM
Yeah I have a endoscope where I work could be worth a try, but I recently put a head gasket on it and inspected it then ? I went to Vauxhall today and they said they don't know and to come back when there master teck is back.
Vauxhall master tech is probably the best bet mate,i'm no mechanic by a long shot,i'm in progress learning,hope you get it sorted soon mate
Pinking/deonation wont always make the car "hold back or struggle"
It normally occurs as the piston passes TDC and the flame front pressureisses and heats the air in front of it, making it explode rather than burn.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 01:41 PM
right just went out with a mechanic who knows his stuff and it is pinking....
because the head has been skimmed so drastically it has increased the CR to much causing it to pre detonate. does anyone know how to lower the CR fairly easily? otherwise its time to fit a new head.
someone suggested spacing out the spark plugs to decrease it... would this work?
someone suggested spacing out the spark plugs to decrease it... would this work?
Is it running standard pistons? I dont think you would have raised it high enough to run into detonation just through skimming the head if so.
spacing out the spark plugs is a stupid idea, the void would probebly lead to detonation as well as crap running and terrible emmisions.
If you do need to lower the CR then get a multi layer steel (MLS) head gasket made thick enough to lower it back down again.
check your igntion timing with a timing gun, try some super unleaded 98\99 octane. If it is still doing try fitting some colder sparkplugs, they may be getting hot and causing pre-ignition.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 04:07 PM
Timing is set up perfectly. Using standard pistons. There was a lot taken off, I have Tryed it on every fuel.
Getting a head gasket made doesn't sound cheap.... Probably more sensible to get a new head
pikey1986
13-01-12, 04:07 PM
try using 2 head gaskets
Curtoise
13-01-12, 04:47 PM
I thought about that but if it doesn't work that's 2 head gaskets wasted... May aswell just get a new head and fix it
pikey1986
13-01-12, 04:54 PM
people have used that method when doing turbo conversions on the 16se, all be it the mother of all bodges lol
How much is a lot....? For the sake of £5 I'd try some colder plugs first.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 05:20 PM
there gm plugs though for this engine so i doubt they would be wrong.... could be worth a shot tho. think i will hunt for a new head gasket.
one question are the head bolts stretch ones?
just how much was taken off the head???
would it be enough to throw the cam timing out & need a vernier??
why not try some sort of octane booster?
tom reid
13-01-12, 06:41 PM
just how much was taken off the head???
would it be enough to throw the cam timing out & need a vernier??
why not try some sort of octane booster?
Beat me to it Mowgli, I was about to say octane booster.
But, did you cc the head and pistons, to get a compression ratio?, it's unusual to need octane booster on just a skimmed head.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 08:38 PM
right here is a pic of the head before i fitted it..
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii448/curtreid8/IMAG1190-1.jpg
as you can see its had a fair bit skimmed off so much it skimmed the spark plug threads.... they never told me how much they actually took off which isnt very helpfull
i dont really want to run it on octane booster as the highter CR cant be doing the engine any good hence why its burning oil on load now possibly due to the rings.
i have retarded the timing so it barely pinks now but it runs like a slug and holds back so much......
This thread is soooo familiar, my gsi head got skimmed, changed ECU's and AFMs, tried octane booster, changed plugs, leads, rotor arm, dizzy, camshaft, tested all hoses for air leaks, blocked of egr, tested emission control valve, coasting air valve changed, new coil, new amplifier,
It still pinked, tried vauxhall tech 1, no codes found,
Curtoise
13-01-12, 09:44 PM
did you change the head in the end then?
it is literally the only thing i can think of thats causing it to pink. and connor had it in his nova first and it didnt pink at all. then i get the head skimmed and it pinks ! just makes sense, im going to put a new head on over the weekend or next weekend i think to eliminate that.
Nope, never changed the head, as I said my problem was earths and fueling, I'll try to find the old data sheets.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 09:57 PM
Oh yes you took it to a bosh expert? Does anyone think the heads been skimmed to.much ?
If you look up the regulations for the hatchback series that Novas run in, they will probably have a minimum head depth, if you can find something to (accurately!!) measure it, that will give you an idea of how much has been taken. I'm not sure if those heads normally have a depth indicator in them, I don't remember from mine I'm afraid.
96mm is std head thickness.
Curtoise
13-01-12, 10:57 PM
Right I will get a caliper on it to measure it I can't see what else it could.be tbh
curtoise, you keep saying the timing was set spot on.. like i already said, was that a book figure? cos when the gte was launched, it was meant to run on 4* leaded for performance, but the timing needed backing off for unleaded, which struggles to meet the old 2* ron level
Curtoise
14-01-12, 02:22 PM
i time it up by the mark on the pulley and the cambelt cases. someone said to me that when it came out of the factory run on 4* the ron plug was on 98 and the way they converted it was to turn it over to 95 which retarded the timing?
TBH it sounds like its too late now that its smoking - could have killed a piston. It doesnt take too much det to knock a corner off a piston crown.
Sounds like a rebuild is needed anyway, so get it stripped!
Curtoise
14-01-12, 07:50 PM
cant do a rebuild on it as its a daily and need it everyday to get to work/college
i have retarded the timing off so it hardly pinks and i just pootle it about.
Something VERY strange happend today though, i was driving to work and my brakes went very stiff and were not servo assisted.. this is whilst i was driving, pretty scarey so i popped the bonnet when i eventually stopped and saw the brake servo vac pipe was slightly out and doesnt seem to seal very well in the servo. could this be causing it to drag in air making it run lean causing the pinking!?!
its a long shot but worth a try so i have got a new rubber seal and am going to fit it tonight
it smokes under load on full chat, not enough so i can see it out the rear view but other people see it.
plan is to put a new head on that i have just purchased next weekend. see if it solves the problem. if so just live with the oil problem untill the cold weather pisses off, and in the meantime get a lower mileage e16se and give it a rebuild with some better parts like a cam and worked head
Curtoise
26-01-12, 08:16 PM
right i thought i better update this thread incase somone has the same problem and reads this to try and solve it.
i have fitted the new head now and it runs alot better... but still pinks at the dreaded rpm and throttle position. i went to vauxhall to speak to the head teck, he said he doesnt know and it could be that you need to disable the electronic advance to set the timing by bridging a+b on the diag plug.
so i will try this soon and let you know.
also i spoke to a guy who used to work at vauxhall and he said the brake servo vac hose sometimes needs replacing as it causes it to run lean over cylinder 3 causing it to pink. now this is abit coincidential seeing as my brakes have been playing up.........
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