View Full Version : What Lb Springs to use on Redtop Nova Track Car??
MiniManDan118
08-01-12, 07:38 PM
As title really - looking at getting some coilovers or spring/shocks for my Redtop Nova but wondering what poundage springs would be recommended for track use.
Cheers for the help!
Dan
thegingerwhinger
08-01-12, 08:33 PM
300 or 350 lb springs
What dampers have you got ?
IMHO 400lb is the min for the front of big or small block setup
Southie
08-01-12, 08:47 PM
Stuart, is it worth him contacting GAZ these days? Did you find a new supplier BTW??
Of course worth dealing with Gaz, but our deal has stopped.
New supplier is erm slow at best lol, or its lees fault lol
400lb? Jesus funking H chap lol Even tarmac spec competition springs arent that higher poundage!
Southie
08-01-12, 08:58 PM
New supplier is erm slow at best lol, or its lees fault lol
Oh so GAZ deal from Brazil these days, no wonder it's slower lol
400lb? Jesus funking H chap lol Even tarmac spec competition springs arent that higher poundage!
Hard springs, low damping and no Arb.... Happy days and work those tyres hard! Tarmac rallying needs almost as much softness as gravel, so that's not a good guide for a track car IMHO
Hard springs, low damping and no Arb.... Happy days and work those tyres hard! Tarmac rallying needs almost as much softness as gravel, so that's not a good guide for a track car IMHO
Wouldn't tarmac rally be almost the same as track tho?
Wouldn't tarmac rally be almost the same as track tho?
Have you ever seen a Tarmac stage? Lol
Hard springs, low damping and no Arb.... Happy days and work those tyres hard! Tarmac rallying needs almost as much softness as gravel, so that's not a good guide for a track car IMHO
Noooo lol well could be yes but I prefer a fair gob of damping, 10" spring (rear) around 225~250lb, good old thwack of some nice springy ARB's on the rear so you just get that little bit of rear end movement as you turn in but its easily contrable.
Biggest front ARB you can find for a lovely tight turn in & (IMHO) it hangs on harder for longer with a teeny tiny bit of rear end skip at high speed, easily controlable can end up in a nice big slide though if you let off midway (if thats your thing? And espcially in the wet or lose stuff even if it isnt your thing lol).
Suppose it depends on your driving style though really, for me, I love driving by the seat of my pants!
Have you ever seen a Tarmac stage? Lol
Yeah lol the word "tarmac" is used very losely lol lol lol
With a proper front Arb setup then yeah softy softy would be good... But it's not so its hard lol.
Stiff car is seat of the pants too :)
MiniManDan118
08-01-12, 09:30 PM
So the GAZ coilies Novarally (Colin) is currently selling on eBay won't be any good? They are 190lb springs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAZ-Coilover-Suspension-Race-Rally-Car-Autograss-Track-Vauxhall-Nova-Corsa-B-/150731411960?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item23184ad1f8
I am currently on really old G-Max and no ARB atall which basically mimic trying to race a cruiseship round castle combe to be polite.
I have a Corsa Sport ARB which will be going on, and now have enough money to purchase some suspension of somesort.
The car has a Quaiffe LSD in it which has made the drive hilarious at the moment. Throwing the car around results in some impressive bodyroll followed by plenty of understeer. Then press the loud pedal and the R888's and diff dig in to make it squirm and wobble in the direction you sort-of originally intended.
Say I were to purchase some bilstein fixed front struts. What LB springs would I be looking to get?
Cheers for the help
Dan
With a proper front Arb setup then yeah softy softy would be good... But it's not so its hard lol.
Stiff car is seat of the pants too :)
Yeah but ideally what you'd want is a car that is a nice compliant ride that is easily controlable on the limit, not something well oversprung for its relative kerb weight & that'll spit you off the road/track at the first sign of a wet corner. And definetly not slammed to the floor running 8" high poundage springs either (8" springs are farking useless, only good for oval racing & door stops IMO!)
chimp007_uk
08-01-12, 09:35 PM
So the GAZ coilies Novarally (Colin) is currently selling on eBay won't be any good? They are 190lb springs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAZ-Coilover-Suspension-Race-Rally-Car-Autograss-Track-Vauxhall-Nova-Corsa-B-/150731411960?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item23184ad1f8
I am currently on really old G-Max and no ARB atall which basically mimic trying to race a cruiseship round castle combe to be polite.
I have a Corsa Sport ARB which will be going on, and now have enough money to purchase some suspension of somesort.
The car has a Quaiffe LSD in it which has made the drive hilarious at the moment. Throwing the car around results in some impressive bodyroll followed by plenty of understeer. Then press the loud pedal and the R888's and diff dig in to make it squirm and wobble in the direction you sort-of originally intended.
Cheers for the help
Dan
They'll get you going... Springs are readily available in length and poundage for cheap so I wouldn't worry. You can sell on the 190LB springs. They'd be ideal for a road going small block.
So the GAZ coilies Novarally (Colin) is currently selling on eBay won't be any good? They are 190lb springs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAZ-Coilover-Suspension-Race-Rally-Car-Autograss-Track-Vauxhall-Nova-Corsa-B-/150731411960?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item23184ad1f8
I am currently on really old G-Max and no ARB atall which basically mimic trying to race a cruiseship round castle combe to be polite.
I have a Corsa Sport ARB which will be going on, and now have enough money to purchase some suspension of somesort.
Cheers for the help
Dan
IMO they would be very close to ideal (despite the flack Ill get for saying 190lb'ers are to low!)Does it say what length they are? Its just a shame theres no definitive way to set midrange coilovers to xxx rebound/bump for proper fine tunning though :(
No front ARB isnt a problem as such with a mega light rear end IMO, arguable on a Nova XE they make turn in worse anyway (not that Ive ever compared?!) I shall be running a front & rear one on my Corsa XE but Im running the car slightly nose down tho.
Yeah but ideally what you'd want is a car that is a nice compliant ride that is easily controlable on the limit, not something well oversprung for its relative kerb weight & that'll spit you off the road/track at the first sign of a wet corner. And definetly not slammed to the floor running 8" high poundage springs either (8" springs are farking useless, only good for oval racing & door stops IMO!)
I never said drop it to the floor ;) I ran the VX on uber hard springs with soft as poo damping and it was fantastic in the dry and tolerable in the wet. Similar weight to a nova.
MiniManDan118
08-01-12, 09:44 PM
IMO they would be very close to ideal (despite the flack Ill get for saying 190lb'ers are to low!)Does it say what length they are? Its just a shame theres no definitive way to set midrange coilovers to xxx rebound/bump for proper fine tunning though :(
No front ARB isnt a problem as such with a mega light rear end IMO, arguable on a Nova XE they make turn in worse anyway (not that Ive ever compared?!) I shall be running a front & rear one on my Corsa XE but Im running the car slightly nose down tho.
Quote: The springs are 2.25" Internal Diameter, with a free length of 10.5" and a rate of 190 lbs.
I never said drop it to the floor ;) I ran the VX on uber hard springs with soft as poo damping and it was fantastic in the dry and tolerable in the wet. Similar weight to a nova.
Oh I know you wasnt saying slam it right down, but you know for a fact as soon as anyone mentions good handling every one thinks slam it to the floor to reduce the COG lol anything over 60mm is, IMO, not needed at all.
Come on, you cant compare a VX220 to a Nova though lol they were designed from the outset to handle fantastic lol Nova's on the other hand were designed to give people something else to laugh at other then beige Austin Allegro's lol
Basic principles stand though.
Quote: The springs are 2.25" Internal Diameter, with a free length of 10.5" and a rate of 190 lbs.
There pretty close to bang on for a benchmark start IMO.
2.25 dia 12" tarmac springs are only 200 (smallblock) ~220lb (bigblock) for a Nova/Corsa. Gravels are only around 180ish.
Basic principles stand though.
God yeah, principal is the same, theory is too, reality IME isnt though really. BUT, Im only going on what I like & what I think feels good. A good friend and driver/codriver of mine took my old Nova out on the road & gave it death & commented at just how good it handle compared to his tarmac rally car!
All depends on what you want though I suppose, wether to drive it through a corner dog legging risking being spat off, or DRIVE it through a corner working what grip there is by using the shifting weight of the vehicle.
Whats the suspension setup on a VX? Double wishbone affiar, RJ'd arms etc etc? Or simplez like a Nova (Ive never looked at one really so dont know?!)
Double wishbone with rubber bushes and Ascona ball joints lol
Double wishbone with rubber bushes and Ascona ball joints lol
So your already one up on a Neva then lol posh posh double wishbone! There a very low slung motor with most if not all the weight very low down. Completely unlike a Nova lol 50kg+ of metal work & glass about 5ft off the ground is never gonna be a winner unfortunatly :/
Of subject, I can see this thread being hella long by the time I get back from work tomorrow too! lol
Theory says soft sprung, hard arb around 4x the rate of the springs is fairly normal, and damping to suit which would be a damping coefficient of about 0.8ish-1.
Sod attempting that on a standard nova though as the rubber bushes will never allow you to get any proper suspension movement, the arms are more flexible than the springs anyway, and the ARB is worse. So you'll end up with something that rolls with characteristics of treacle and sticks in the position of whatever corner you last rounded, and then slowly slops back to rest. I'd be more inclined to restrict as much movement as possible out of it to keep the geometry something like straight and let the tyres do the work, and let the suspension components do the job of the springs lol
I'd be more inclined to restrict as much movement as possible out of it to keep the geometry something like straight and let the tyres do the work, and let the suspension components do the job of the springs lol
Fcuk that game lol I tried this in my white Nova & ended up going backwards round one of the biggest islands on Wolverhampton ring road all at 20mph. Worlds slowest spin lol all infront of a police car :/
Well that's a lie actually, I'd be inclined to fix the suspension, but that's long term and not for everyone lol Also not suitable for public british roads btw lol
track car............
get the basics first....diff.......proper tyres. there is an extra mass of grip before starting. for a 'run of the mill' xe on track with those two items i would personally 'start' at 250 rear and 350 front.
Then ideally you have to decide how you like the car to drive, set your heights and geometry (both as important as each other !!) to suit and you have started to get the car going in the right direction.
I have always set my cars for my own personal style and feel. quite a fine balance so the car can either grip like a git when under load, or be nice and loose when flicking around through chicanes and letting the rear end slide to suit with some minor accuracy.
Oh and none of my cars have ran an ARB, be it my 8v which punched above its weight, or the wide xe on bodies. If i can get away with it i still wont be fitting one either, although due to the immense grip levels we are running we may have to fabricate a 'proper' one as the standard arb is good for sod all. (imo)
This may not be correct for everyone, i'm no tech head thats for sure lollollol I just build as I see fit and a few on here have come across my builds over the years lol
I ran 350LB on mine (front) and thought it was kinda soft
Btw, Corsa front arb will not fit on a Nova
Just my 2pence lol , Im goin with stu on this one , harder rate springs although wont go as far as 400 lb , with the damping set on the softer side of things ,
My nova is running 320lb front springs with no arb , and normally runs Std avo rear coilovers ( on 60mm shocks and spring due to leaking avo coilovers AGAIN )
Yes it does have lift of under steer , but that's not a problem , shouldn't be lifting of anyway lol
But no roll through corners etc , and anyone who has been in car with me knows that it's goes where I want it to lol
I've seen a few people use higher poundage rears too, something like 600 rear and 400 front, not something I've tried but apparently works
"I've seen a few people use higher poundage rears too, something like 600 rear and 400 front, not something I've tried but apparently works"
Thats one way to do it if your not using an ARB at the back. Personally I would run a rear ARB and lower poundage springs to aid high speed predictablity. rather than having the rear skipping around at the smallest changes in surface
You can only get an idea of whats suitable until you've driven the car and worked out your driving style
MiniManDan118
11-01-12, 05:21 PM
Rightyho...
The diff is sorted - quaiffe
The tyres are sorted - Toyo R888
Think I'm going to go for a set of Bilstein B6 fixed suspension struts. By the sounds of it around the 320 - 350lb mark on the front will be a good starting point. And somewhere around 250lb for the rears.
Next question - where can I get a decent set of springs from? Pro-Tec Motorsport any good? Seen a set of springs on there but they dont have the poundage rating on them
Cheers for all the help!
Dan
Are coilovers not better for ease of spring changing and off-the-shelf options?
Are coilovers not better for ease of spring changing and off-the-shelf options?
agreed.
If your going for a quaife diff then I would deffinatly go for coilovers. any fixed strut is unlikely to be track orientated IMO. Bilstein are a great company and i'm looking at upgrading to some B14 coilovers in the near future.
MiniManDan118
14-01-12, 12:02 AM
I have been highly recommended using the Bilstein B6 struts and a set of springs from Pro Tec (or something like that) who have been rallying and racing Novas and Corsas for a long time. They have developed their 30mm drop springs on the Bilstein B6 specifically for tarmac use in a redtop Nova so we will see how that goes!
I have been highly recommended using the Bilstein B6 struts and a set of springs from Pro Tec (or something like that) who have been rallying and racing Novas and Corsas for a long time. They have developed their 30mm drop springs on the Bilstein B6 specifically for tarmac use in a redtop Nova so we will see how that goes!
Let us know :)
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