View Full Version : Got a K reg Nova?
7.1 Exhaust Emissions
Reason for rejection:
1. An exhaust system not adequately supported.
2. A major leak of exhaust gases from any part of the system.
3. A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard
4. A silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a standard silencer in average condition.
5. An exhaust tailpipe positioned so that fumes are likely to enter the driver’s or passenger area.
Oh dear. lol
Now I know the old 'it doesn't require one due to emissions' and 'doesn't require one due to an XE nova not being a standard build' arguments, but to be fair the old MOT guidelines were slack on exhausts and emissions and it was possible to work round them. But in the new regs for this year, its actually explicitly stating if your car had a cat as standard, it needs to have one now.
Discuss.... lol
It may still be able to sneak under the emissions radar whoout a cat, engine depending. Guess your tester needs to be slightly friendly though.
That isn't the issue though.
The point now is that the MOT actually states if it had a cat as standard, it needs one now whether it passes emissions or not.
4. sounds a dodgy one too.
Could in theory fail every car they test with an "exhaust" fitted.....
L14mnp- An engine cant pass a cat levels test without a cat fitted, unless it aint running properly and the afr is way out or something along those lines
Yeah, true. Any decent place should still let you pass if the emissions are fine imo.
The regs are tightening, but I don't think it's gonna change that much, immediately.
Novasport
05-01-12, 06:59 PM
I was thinking the same re note 4. I wonder if they will make induction noise a part of the MOT?
Yeah i agree to a point. For many years a tester has been perfectly allowed to fail any car that produces more exhaust noise than it should do....
Yet they dont
Meh H reg for teh win!
So how does Mr Mot man know if your car was fitted with a cat in the first place?
Read the whole revised thing, there's loads of iffy bits. Unsecured wiring (as standard) may be a fail.
Fixed buckets may be a fail.
De-handled front doors etc
I'm sure I have heard of cars passing legitimate tests without a cat Adam. I agree though, it shouldn't be possible. Who knows what was done.
Meh H reg for teh win!
So how does Mr Mot man know if your car was fitted with a cat in the first place?
I guess there will be a slight grey area, but basically from 1993 didn't all cars have them?
A reg ftmfw. :)
blue_peg_16v
05-01-12, 07:04 PM
Mines k reg but a diesel so never had a cat, oh can see the argument coming lol
Number 4 has always been that way, the wording is still the same as previous MOT regs. So its always been legit for a tester to fail you if he thinks your car is too loud.
Battery security is also part of the MOT now too. Better get a strap for the cav I suppose lol
How does the emissions computer work, I've never looked at craig's that closely - does it tell the MOT tester which test type the car should have based on reg, year, model etc?
[edit] Rich, diesel doesn't have the same emissions regulations/cutover as spark ignition you muppet lol
I THINK if the tester finds an exact model/year/engine match on the system then the system picks what rules its running to.
There must be some kind of override though as my old K-plate went through two mots without a cat....
Li4mnp-I have too, but under normal circumstances it isnt possible.
turbojolt
05-01-12, 07:11 PM
2nd hand sport cats don't cost the earth now days problem solved lol
Calamity Josh
05-01-12, 07:12 PM
simple,
A)take a straight through bit of the exhaust,
B) take a stubby, not to wide knackered cat,
C) cut the center out, slide it over the exhaust and weld on...
it'll look like a cat but how are they going to know its not as it doesn't specify it has to be the exact cat for the car
simple,
A)take a straight through bit of the exhaust,
B) take a stubby, not to wide knackered cat,
C) cut the center out, slide it over the exhaust and weld on...
it'll look like a cat but how are they going to know its not as it doesn't specify it has to be the exact cat for the car
Huh?
Hows it going pass with a knackered cat?
blue_peg_16v
05-01-12, 07:18 PM
But if there enforcing it will mean a cat test and without a cat it won't pass, before if engine was older or never fitted would get a pre cat test
simple,
A)take a straight through bit of the exhaust,
B) take a stubby, not to wide knackered cat,
C) cut the center out, slide it over the exhaust and weld on...
it'll look like a cat but how are they going to know its not as it doesn't specify it has to be the exact cat for the car
If it was just a a visual check it would work, shame it's not lol.
Just run a decat or sports cat then if need be, bolt in a cat at MOT time if this is the way it's going.
Not really read the thread but I had a K reg that didnt have a cat.
None of my cars ever had a cat fitted as far as I know Mr MOT man.
None of my cars ever had a cat fitted as far as I know Mr MOT man.
Plausable deniability.
"A cat on a car?? Im a decorator not a bloody mechanic!"
None of my cars ever had a cat fitted as far as I know Mr MOT man.
Your "lack of motor knowledge" is not really his issue though?
If the system shows it should be passing Cat level emissions... Then it would have come with a cat from the factory?
Your "lack of motor knowledge" is not really his issue though?
If the system shows it should be passing Cat level emissions... Then it would have come with a cat from the factory?
Harsh :( lol
How many cars would have been registered late, strange engine types from factory, repairs that you had no idea of, engine conversions (which I assume follow the same rules as exhausts etc, show me a Vauxhall made factory standard C20XE Nova with a cat and I'll fit one too) etc etc. It would be fairly unreasonable to deny someone an MOT based on the fact although it passes emissions etc fine or close enough to cat levels without a cat or similar, just because someone else made an exhaust repair with a cheaper decat section?
lol
Yeah i get what you're saying, just depends how harshly they intend on enforcing the rules.
Probably change nothing at all tbh.
Trivs_Tom
05-01-12, 08:27 PM
I guess there will be a slight grey area, but basically from 1993 didn't all cars have them?
A reg ftmfw. :)
B reg ftw lol
Pistol Pete
05-01-12, 08:30 PM
Not really read the thread but I had a K reg that didnt have a cat.
I was just trying to remember if both of my SRi's had cats......
Southie
05-01-12, 08:30 PM
Buy an older numberplate and MK1 it visually lol
engine conversions (which I assume follow the same rules as exhausts etc, show me a Vauxhall made factory standard C20XE Nova with a cat and I'll fit one too)
Thing is though, thats a moot point as changing the engine does not change the car. It merely defines which emissions regs it goes through - this is a whole new addition to the exhaust section, not the emissions section. If I followed the manual to the letter but fitted a steam engine to my car, I'd still need a cat on the exhaust lol
Plausable deniability.
"A cat on a car?? Im a decorator not a bloody vet!"
lol
Bit like saying "sorry mr insurance man, I didn't realize my 1.0 Nova had a 3.0 V6 in it as I'm no mechanic bruv". I know its not quite the same scale, but still
Bit like saying "sorry mr insurance man, I didn't realize my 1.0 Nova had a 3.0 V6 in it as I'm no mechanic bruv". I know its not quite the same scale, but still
Actually to the letter of the law as long as you can prove that you described everything to the best of your ability? Difficult though lol
what about a 1991 carb engine in a 1992 car?
This could be a problem for the Civic. Running a race manifold so no facility for a cat as the manifold is so much longer than the standard one plus I don't fancy cutting a £1200 manifold to fit a cat. Guessing that's why the manifold has "race use only" stamped on it.
Might have to end up swapping back to standard manifold/CAT for MOT's which will be a ball ache. Will see what my friendly tester has to say as it breezed the emissions test last time!
Yes mr MOT man...here's your monies
Thanks, here's your pass
lol
what about a 1991 carb engine in a 1992 car?
Emissions will be non-cat test
Exhaust depends on whether or not it had a cat from factory lol
Gotta laugh, I know it can be a ballache to put a cat back in for a mot but look at that lad from Switzerland, he has to put his standard engine back in for a mot lol,
TeddyThom
06-01-12, 03:17 AM
Apparently, it's getting to the point where you won't even be able to remove the rear seats etc anymore... A friend of mine has apparently read the new regs for this year and it's getting ridiculous, things like if it had it from factory it has to have it now etc etc... Getting proper bollocxed up if you ask me ¬¬
Uh oh...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/wiggardywoo/photo-14.jpg
Hang on...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/wiggardywoo/2011-11-20112221.jpg
smug face lol
i don't see the problem here....
they have altered the mot rules to enforce laws that have been in place for 20 odd years...
i was talking to an insurance assessor who was complaining bitterly about young kids with illegal cars crashing & ruining people's lives.. they could soon be banning big wheels, lowered suspension and other modifications if the insurers have anything to do with it
Those laws haven't been in place though have they Mowgli? The old MOT emissions workflow allowed non-cat tests for engines that did not come in that vehicle, i.e. all 2.0 Novas. Now 2.0 K reg Novas will need catalytic converters...
they wont ban knack all!
Heres a thought,our economy is bumshafted yeah?
I know lets ban modified parts-Loads of businesses wind up,jobs cut,tax lost and so on and so forth.
Insurers would have to charge "sensible" rates again,again-tax lost.
I could go on.
Why havent they banned alcohol and smoking yet then?? thats far more dangerous than a cherry bomb on a nova with 17's innit
So they tightened up a loophole, the construction & use rules had it, but for some unknown reason the mot wasn't updated.
Was having this discussion with my mate who is a newly qualified tester yesterday, and it is basically if your car had a cat factory fitted then it needs to be there for MOT.
If it had one, then it will get a cat emissions test, some may pass on emissions but if the tester see's that no cat is fitted, whether nor not it has passed on emissions, it then has to fail due to it not being there, the tester will risk their licence if they pass a car that hasnt got a cat fitted when it had one from factory, and iirc these rules are now in force!
Looks like all of the mk1 boys are safe on this one [engage smug mode] Ahh....:d
they wont ban knack all!
Heres a thought,our economy is bumshafted yeah?
I know lets ban modified parts-Loads of businesses wind up,jobs cut,tax lost and so on and so forth.
Insurers would have to charge "sensible" rates again,again-tax lost.
I could go on.
Why havent they banned alcohol and smoking yet then?? thats far more dangerous than a cherry bomb on a nova with 17's innit
the problem is this.. a manufacturer spends a heap of money making a car fit the regulations. then 15 years later, some lad & his mates decide to modify it..and tbh, we have all seen potentially lethal stuff done to cars.. there are a lot of these cars that are deathtraps. when they crash, they usually wreck a lot of stuff & people. why should the govt. allow this? answer, they shouldn't.
as for the modified parts business, some are very good, but a lot are terrible, peddling badly made tat.
as for your argument about alcohol & smoking..... both should be done in moderation, a bit like driving really.....
blue_peg_16v
06-01-12, 11:22 AM
Right found the new flow chart and there's no change for us if they can't find an exact match then a non cat test is carried out on cars registered before 31/7/95 so no cat needed still bonus sucks for all the after 95 corsa drivers tho
Here's the link you may need a print out if your mot tester isn't too friendly
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newp9.pdf
Also just looked at the non passenger vehicle flow as in the notes on that link it says car derived vans arn passenger vehicles and in the other flow dosent need a cat till 94 so either way no cat for me lol
the problem is this.. a manufacturer spends a heap of money making a car fit the regulations. then 15 years later, some lad & his mates decide to modify it..and tbh, we have all seen potentially lethal stuff done to cars.. there are a lot of these cars that are deathtraps. when they crash, they usually wreck a lot of stuff & people. why should the govt. allow this? answer, they shouldn't.
as for the modified parts business, some are very good, but a lot are terrible, peddling badly made tat.
as for your argument about alcohol & smoking..... both should be done in moderation, a bit like driving really.....
I know what you mean,but theres some high standards of cars on here and out there.And theres also some downright dangerous machines also.
Ive seen both sides on here,from flawless work such as Lee H's,Keiths,Benns to name but a few,and then some proper VOSA magnets-like Nathan Facepalm's example of how not to do an engine conversion,i think a better way to enforce "modzzzz" is to go to a vosa centre (engine transplants etc here) and have a check carried out for £30 like a VIC which incidentally is the biggest rip off ever,£30 to look at the vin and chassis numbers?! Money for old rope or what!
go to a vosa centre (engine transplants etc here) and have a check carried out for £30 like a VIC which incidentally is the biggest rip off ever,£30 to look at the vin and chassis numbers?! Money for old rope or what!
That would be a sterling idea, would help a lot of people when they come to change the V5 as a most seem to have bother with it these days, and in theory could/should cut down on the number of illegal conversions kicking about:thumb:
the thing is that when an engine gets swapped & the notification of change sent to dvla, it is accompanied by an engineers report, or a receipt of work done!!!! so someone gets his mate to nick some headed paper from work & fills it in...........its down to dodgy owners too..
i've seen the vic check.. its so bad, its almost funny.
That would be a sterling idea, would help a lot of people when they come to change the V5 as a most seem to have bother with it these days, and in theory could/should cut down on the number of illegal conversions kicking about:thumb:
Yep.
Cant understand why they dont,a properly fitted "modded/aftermarket" part is no more dangerous than standard if its good quality.And i think i speak for most of us on here when i say i myself would have absolutely no qualms about taking my "modified" cars/conversions to any VOSA centre.
Then if stopped,if they have been checked and passed-alls gravy-if not,summons the vehicle to the nearest test centre.
It would be simple.
the thing is that when an engine gets swapped & the notification of change sent to dvla, it is accompanied by an engineers report, or a receipt of work done!!!! so someone gets his mate to nick some headed paper from work & fills it in...........its down to dodgy owners too..
.
Some people dont get asked for proof or owt,i just got asked for a receipt stating what it was and what it were from."oh blast,ive left it in the glovebox,"writes out receipt while pretending to search" here you are"
"Thanks Mr Andy,heres your new disc"
Easy as that in some cases.
When i registered mine at the dvla local in beverly a few years back, i wasnt asked for anything more than the V5 with the new engine number on, the old 1200 tax disc, and the extra (£34 i think it was) to pay and move it up to the correct tax bracket of a 1998cc!
tommy8252
06-01-12, 12:54 PM
Right found the new flow chart and there's no change for us if they can't find an exact match then a non cat test is carried out on cars registered before 31/7/95 so no cat needed still bonus sucks for all the after 95 corsa drivers tho
Here's the link you may need a print out if your mot tester isn't too friendly
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newp9.pdf
Also just looked at the non passenger vehicle flow as in the notes on that link it says car derived vans arn passenger vehicles and in the other flow dosent need a cat till 94 so either way no cat for me lol
this is how all of our testers view it at work and as such neither my nova or cavalier need a cat.
Yes they do, if they had one from factory. Thats one of the new bits thats been added this year.
Right found the new flow chart and there's no change for us if they can't find an exact match then a non cat test is carried out on cars registered before 31/7/95 so no cat needed still bonus sucks for all the after 95 corsa drivers tho
Here's the link you may need a print out if your mot tester isn't too friendly
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newp9.pdf
Also just looked at the non passenger vehicle flow as in the notes on that link it says car derived vans arn passenger vehicles and in the other flow dosent need a cat till 94 so either way no cat for me lol
Forget emissions, thats not what this is about. The emissions schedules haven't changed, you can still pass the emissions but fail if you don't have a cat:
Reason for rejection, 7.1 #3 "A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard"
Is the new statement thats been added to the MOT guidelines. The only remaining question, which is what I'm trying to ascertain, is how does the MOT tester know if your car had a cat from the factory? Is it just done on date, does the emissions computer tell him, is there a list, etc?
So they tightened up a loophole, the construction & use rules had it, but for some unknown reason the mot wasn't updated.
Bizarrely CUR merely states your car has to comply with EU emissions regs "at time of first use". Nothing to say you can't drive it off the GM forecourt then throw the cat in the bin.
TeddyThom
06-01-12, 03:23 PM
Ok going out in alimb here a little bit but bear with me.
If you take this reason for rejection:
Reason for rejection, 7.1 #3 "A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard"
Does that mean then, if you strip out your interior, back seats etc, and remove the seatbelts to go with it, said car will then fail an MOT due to them not being in there as per factory???
No because it says if cat was fitted as standard not interior.
Good point Jack, I saw the workflow PDF document and thought it'd be OK, I guess it still goes through non-cat emissions but fails the MOT due to no cat, great.
Wtf has the interior got to do with a cat missing lol
LMFAO
:wall:
lol Tom, its just that bit thats been added that mentions specifically the cat. There's other bits that have been added in, but cats are part that is usually a PITA for people here.
blue_peg_16v
06-01-12, 07:23 PM
meh stillwont affect me cats wernt compulsary on vans till 94 and being a wiesel it didnt have one anywayy
just found this
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html
From Tims page:
Seats
It must be possible to secure the driver's seat fore and aft adjustment mechanism in two or three different positions. On electric seats the motors must move the seat fore and aft.
Does that mean fixed buckets are potentially a fail now too?
Fixed buckets, and harnesses too if you don't have the original seat belts fitted :(
edit: although extra holes count as an adjustment imo.
Read the whole revised thing, there's loads of iffy bits.
Unsecured wiring (as standard) may be a fail.
De-handled front doors etc
De handled doors with no easy way to open from the out side have always been a fail. There has to be a button that's marked. It's a safty one, a fire man must be able to open the door quick and easily. Is what the local vosa office told me when i had de-handled thoughts...
As for wiring... If they can find mine, then they deserve a prize so can fail me..lol
Meh. Another rule misinterpreted...good news again though :)
From the new manual http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_710.htm
Method of Inspection: 3. On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.
Reason for Rejection: 3. A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard
So, a Nova SRi would only need a cat if in it's current state it qualified for a cat test. Mine with the Corsa engine has a none cat test, hence doesn't need a cat despite it having one from the factory. Result.
blue_peg_16v
07-01-12, 12:45 AM
That was my interpretation too.
TeddyThom
07-01-12, 01:07 AM
No because it says if cat was fitted as standard not interior.
Gah!
I meant it as in if they use that rule concerning a cat, can they apply that type of rule to something else. Not as in if there is no cat you can't remove the interior lol
IE not there from factory = fail regardless of if it is a cat or interior lol??
No because we're talking about specific rules here. Not to say something won't be added in future mind.
Method of Inspection: 3. On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.
Good spot lol So that reason for rejection only applies to that specific method of inspection? Phew lol Although if you pass the emissions you can still fail with a decat lol
You would only fail if the car qualifies for a cat test. A Nova (regardless of it's original engine) fitted with any of the factory engines requiring a cat i.e C14SE, C16SE, the single point injection 1.4i and 1.2i would need to have the cat present even if it passes the emissions test. However any Nova fitted with a none factory engine i.e C20XE, X16XE, X14XE etc would not be subject to a cat test and as such doesn't need to have a cat fitted *even if* the car came from the factory with one.
Simples. lol
For kreg just put first year of use 92
mk1nova_rich
07-01-12, 06:16 PM
Mk2 FTL...that is all :d
as an mot tester myself i would tend to pass a car without a cat if it passed the relevant emissions test as i cant see what differance it makes because at the end of the day its a visual check so if i car had a cat fitted how woud i know if there was a cat inside the casing it could just be an empty casing with a pipe welded up the middle. which by the way for anyone with a strict mot tester that fails it theres a little tip make it look like its got a cat and then as long as it passes emissions what can he do lol altho an sri without a cat probably wont pass emissions anyway :D mine didnt :S so i ended up having to put cat back on
For kreg just put first year of use 92
lol the ministry computer will show the date of first registration. In my case 1993.
Mk2 FTL...that is all :d
This lol
blue_peg_16v
08-01-12, 05:47 PM
This lol
Bandwagon hijacker
rednova
09-01-12, 12:22 PM
I was always under the impression the car was tested on whichever was oldest engine or car so yes a k reg with new 16v engine would need one etc a newer corsa with an old 8v wouldnt need a cat as that engine was never designed with one (this probably fits into the if you cant select the option category)
blue_peg_16v
09-01-12, 12:50 PM
That's the old rule if the engine was never fitted to a car regardless off age a none cat test was done now though if after 95 a cat test will be done and if it passes envisions with no cat and there isn't a cat fitted will still fail, if a car had a cat originally and is fitted with a sufferer engine but from the same sort of car between 92 and 95 will still need a cat if one was fitted as standard if the car was registered between 92 and 95 has had an engine never fitted to that model eg big or small block xe then no cat test and no cat required, that's my understanding anyway of the new rules (came into effect 1/1/12)
Would you like some punctuation in that? lol
Looking at the flow charts, I don't think they've changed have they? The whole 92-95 and amateur build things were in effect prior to January.
So... lemme see if I have this right. lol
< 01/08/92 cars in standard form require no cat and take the non-cat test
> 01/08/92 cars in standard form require a cat if fitted as OEM and take the BET (cat test)
< 01/08/1998 cars that fall in the 'amateur build' class require a visual emissions check and no cat
Anything thats had a different engine fitted could be considered an 'amateur build' and only requires a visual inspection according to the flow charts:
For emissions purposes only, kit cars and amateur build vehicles first used before 1 August 1998 and Wankel rotary-engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987 are to be considered first used before 1 August 1975
That (amateur build) aside, the 92-95 cars theoretically should still need a cat though? As if you follow the flow chart, they do qualify for the BET process based on age. Doesn't matter if it passes or fails, or the levels are slackened off due to the 'no match found on system' clause, the wording of the method of inspection is "On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter."
Or am I being too pedantic about all this? I have been very very bored at work today. lol
skidmark
10-01-12, 07:25 AM
Could anyone tell if my J Reg nova SR came with a cat?
Could anyone tell if my J Reg nova SR came with a cat?
No it didn't mate
Gareth_C
10-01-12, 12:04 PM
What jack is saying is correct I have just asked my uncle of vosa, and if it is a factory engined car (I.e 1.2 nova) the new rule counts. But if it's a aftermarket engine (I.e xe nova) then the old rule applies. ( it goes off the engine year)
Hope that helps people.
What jack is saying is correct I have just asked my uncle of vosa, and if it is a factory engined car (I.e 1.2 nova) the new rule counts. But if it's a aftermarket engine (I.e xe nova) then the old rule applies. ( it goes off the engine year)
Hope that helps people.
Which is what I said way back lol A quick read of the mot manual is all that was needed...
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