MK1 SR - how to tune?

[pimpinyourmum]

Hi there
I'm new to the forum so thought I'd say Hi.

I recently bought a C plate MK1 1.3 SR as it was my first ever car and I remember it fondly so thought I'd track down another.

Anyway I intend to restore the car keeping it original body and interior wise but want a few more horses along the way. I dont want to put a valver in it but would like to stick with 8v power.

1: What sort of power levels are likely if I stick with the 1.3 and put a cam in it, 4 branch manifold and decent exhaust and filter?

2: My second question is can I take a 1.6 GTE engine and simply bolt a set of carbs to it?

3: Is the GTE gearbox called an F13 and what box is in my car now? Is there any reason why a GTE box wont fit straight on and what benefits might i find?


The car is a 4th car so it doesnt need to be used as a daily. I just want to have fun in it on sunny Sundays etc.

Thanks in anticipation guys and gals.:)

[Bubba]

1. depends on the condition of the engine to begin with.

2. i think it would need fuel pump changing etc

3. yes...i think. and not a great deal i expect.

hmm, not really much help. lol and helloo :D

[kent14sr]

The 1.3 is a great engine to tune, and are great fun;

I would put a fast road cam in, mildly port the head and look out for a set of twin 40 DCOE webers. That plus a 4 branch manifold and subtle exhaust will go well if its set up properly! Alternatively a twin choke single Weber is better than the stock Pierburg 2E3 - look out for an adapter plate on here. With the above you may be looking at anywhere between 80 and 100 bhp depending on how its all put together etc

Your SR likely has an F10CR gearbox, and if you go down the 1.6 route you will need a round ported inlet manifold - 1.2/1.3 are cathedral shaped, and 1.4 square if I remember correctly.

[Bubba]

Alternatively a twin choke single Weber is better than the stock Pierburg 2E3 - look out for an adapter plate on here.



or use a mk2 astra 1.6 carb inlet iirc

[pimpinyourmum]

The 1.3 is a great engine to tune, and are great fun;

I would put a fast road cam in, mildly port the head and look out for a set of twin 40 DCOE webers. That plus a 4 branch manifold and subtle exhaust will go well if its set up properly! Alternatively a twin choke single Weber is better than the stock Pierburg 2E3 - look out for an adapter plate on here. With the above you may be looking at anywhere between 80 and 100 bhp depending on how its all put together etc

Your SR likely has an F10CR gearbox, and if you go down the 1.6 route you will need a round ported inlet manifold - 1.2/1.3 are cathedral shaped, and 1.4 square if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the reply.

To be honest Id like to stick with the 1.3 if I can. I used to have a Peugeot 106 S1 Rallye 1.3 and that was a great engine and car. If I can get the SR to feel something like that I'll be a happy bunny.

I've seen Webers advertised on here and am tempted by a set but someone mentioned that finding a manifold to fit will be like rocking horse poo. Is that right do we think?

[pimpinyourmum]

1. depends on the condition of the engine to begin with.

2. i think it would need fuel pump changing etc

3. yes...i think. and not a great deal i expect.

hmm, not really much help. lol and helloo :D

Cheers Bubba.

I've a list of bits I'll replace as consumables. Hadnt thought of the fuel pump but thats a good idea. ;)

First thing is to get rid of this misfire. Ive replaced the plugs and also the HT leads today and cleaned the carb out (not a thorough job) with carb cleaner. It sounds better but is still mis-firing ggrrrrrrrr.

[pottersrebel]

if your gonna refresh the engine make sure u either replace the oil pump or refurb the one thats on. i race 1300 stocks and thats normally the one thing that lets u down. also agree with bubba if ur on a buget fit a 1.6 2e3 pierberg

[pimpinyourmum]

if your gonna refresh the engine make sure u either replace the oil pump or refurb the one thats on. i race 1300 stocks and thats normally the one thing that lets u down. also agree with bubba if ur on a buget fit a 1.6 2e3 pierberg

Thanks for the tip. Is the oil pump an easy enough job? Ive got myself a Haynes manual, yet to open it yet though;).

Its not a budget thing as such. Im on the look out for some twin 40's but its a matter of when they come up. Ive seen some on ebay brand new but Im not sure if they offer much value for money at £550 and it would still leave me without a manifold. Bet they sound amazing though!

[kent14sr]

Just look out for a set from a Nova Sport (matching pair) - sometimes sets come up on here - manifold/alt drop bracket/carbs/linkage etc, usually around £200 ish

Alternatively you can buy manifolds from a few sources - I got one from ebay for £30 and used Dellorto DHLAs which are cheaper than Webers usually.

[Connor]

If you need a 32/34 adapter plate, i have one for sale

[pottersrebel]

two spanner rating in the haynes manual i think, very easy to do if the engine is already out (dont know how easy it is to do in the car as ive always had the engine out)

[pimpinyourmum]

Just look out for a set from a Nova Sport (matching pair) - sometimes sets come up on here - manifold/alt drop bracket/carbs/linkage etc, usually around £200 ish



Oooh now I'd have a do at some of those ;) Ill keep my eye open ta.

And Ill have a look on ebay as you say for a manifold.
Cheers

[pimpinyourmum]

If you need a 32/34 adapter plate, i have one for sale

Cheers connor. Thats if I go down the single carb route is it?

[Bubba]

bike carbs are a cheaper alternative to webbers

[pottersrebel]

where`s the like button. a car sounds mint on bike carbs

[pimpinyourmum]

bike carbs are a cheaper alternative to webbers

Do they work though? They were a popular mod on 106 Rallyes but mainly because of the lack of room in the engine bay. Are they more effective/better (in some way) than genuine Webers?

[Andy]

No theyre not imo,stick to webers.
Good choice of car and fair play for keeping the 8v but for the love of god im sure you could of chose a more mature username! lol

[Bubba]

tbh, ive no idea whether or not they are better. ive got some R1 carbs that will be going on my XE. only paid £115 for them, now i need the manifold which i think bogg bros do and the mk2 1600 big block cav dizzy setup and to drill the jets to 1.6mm iirc to get the fueling right.

some people have said they are just as good as webbers/dellortos and some have said they need setting up more often and not as good.

lol and Andy beat me to it lol

[pimpinyourmum]

but for the love of god im sure you could of chose a more mature username! lol

Had it since I was 18 on various formats. I'm a 33 year old Company Director now but its stuck and I like it and theres no better reason to keep it than that ;) Hell I bought a car I used to drive 15 years ago for nostalgia.....I can keep my user name surely????? Ha ha ha

[Bubba]

Had it since I was 18 on various formats. I'm a 33 year old Company Director now but its stuck and I like it and theres no better reason to keep it than that ;) Hell I bought a car I used to drive 15 years ago for nostalgia.....I can keep my user name surely????? Ha ha ha

wouldnt be a welding company by any chance would it lol lol

[Andy]

Had it since I was 18 on various formats. I'm a 33 year old Company Director now but its stuck and I like it and theres no better reason to keep it than that ;) Hell I bought a car I used to drive 15 years ago for nostalgia.....I can keep my user name surely????? Ha ha ha
Then i guess its welcome to the fold,i know you will fit in alright...lol

[pimpinyourmum]

wouldnt be a welding company by any chance would it lol lol



No. You need one? ;)

[pimpinyourmum]

Then i guess its welcome to the fold,i know you will fit in alright...lol

Thank you Sir ;)

[Bubba]

No. You need one? ;)

i need a new welder yes lol i just thought you might have bought one to have fun trying to weld rust lol

[pimpinyourmum]

Thought I should post up a few pics:


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_1492.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_1487.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_1488.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_1490.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_1486.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6307.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6309.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6313.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6321.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6323.jpg



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6316.jpg

[kent14sr]

Im sure I bid on that a couple of years ago on ebay - it was in Essex then iirc and looked tidy back then.

Keep it standard and concentrate on preserving it - if you do it will be worth a fortune in years to come!! Mk1 SRs are rare to say the least!

[leggattr]

Saw that for sale, believe was in Essex? But the seller didn't reply to my email so left it.

[phunkynova]

Hi Pimp welcome on board.
what Andy say is not true (sorry Andy) Bike carbs do work very well I have them on my 1.4SR, there performance is the same as twin 40s and like twin 40s they are only as good as the man who set them up.
If needed I can back my statement up with a video of my car running with them on. :thumb:

[Edd]

Looks clean

I would tune the 1300 if I were you, keeps it more original, early SR like yours are worth a bit

Welcome btw

[Bubba]

love the seats :p

[pimpinyourmum]

Looks clean

I would tune the 1300 if I were you, keeps it more original, early SR like yours are worth a bit

Welcome btw


Thanks!

[blue_peg_16v]

Hum my opinion would be bin the engine and fit a big block bhp/£ it's the best route IMO also back in the day there was a silver sr with xe on 45s was as rusty as hell but went to all the shows and I thought the dont give a feck attitude was awsome, was rat well before it became known

[pimpinyourmum]

love the seats :p

Cool arent they ;)

Had people (without taste of course) questioning them but you just cant help some people ha ha. Burberry check rocks!!

[Edd]

Hum my opinion would be bin the engine and fit a big block bhp/£ it's the best route IMO also back in the day there was a silver sr with xe on 45s was as rusty as hell but went to all the shows and I thought the dont give a feck attitude was awsome, was rat well before it became known

You'll be telling him to mk2 it next lol big blocking a early SR that's very original would be criminal imo

[troy88]

I agree with Edd, it really would be criminal espicailly as its in a good unchav'd state. Blue Peg thats a crazy idea

[Graeme]

I agree with Rich, a nice old school big block conversion on carbs would be excellent, no one had a problem with Nick's yellow one being converted and that was a lot of peoples favorite car before he sold it

[turbojolt]

But he wants to keep the 1300 lol, twin webers look more retro under the bonnet then bike carbs so I would choose them.

[John]

irmscher inlet, 40's with trumpets, good cam with vernier and a decent exhaust and you're sorted!

[mowgli]

if you fit the gte 1600 engine, you will have to fit the f13 gearbox, it is necessary to fit over the larger flywheel/clutch assy..

the f13cr close ratio is a way better box than the std sr f10wr wide ratio. it will bolt straight in and even fit onto the 1.3 engine.

as for the misfire, plugs/ht leads & check the advance retard is working on the good old delco dizzy..

[pimpinyourmum]

if you fit the gte 1600 engine, you will have to fit the f13 gearbox, it is necessary to fit over the larger flywheel/clutch assy..

the f13cr close ratio is a way better box than the std sr f10wr wide ratio. it will bolt straight in and even fit onto the 1.3 engine.

as for the misfire, plugs/ht leads & check the advance retard is working on the good old delco dizzy..

Cheers for those points. Ive found an F13CR on here but the seller isnt responding to posts :( Is it just a sweeter box? Back in the day I replaced my SR with a Nova GTE but it was so long ago I dont remember the respective qualities of the boxes.

Good point on the Dizzy. I'll try and have a play with that tomorrow as Im very keen to get rid of the blasted misfire and the new plugs and HT leads havent cured it (although its made it a bit better)

To answer the question about what to power it with theres no way I want to fit a big block engine. Im not that sure on going GTE power as I would really really like to tune up the standard 1.3 if I can find all the right bits to do it.

Is there any benefit to fitting the standard supressor jobs to the spark plugs again or just connect the HT leads to the plugs directly as normal?

[pimpinyourmum]

irmscher inlet, 40's with trumpets, good cam with vernier and a decent exhaust and you're sorted!

Sounds good to me ;)

[mowgli]

Cheers for those points. Ive found an F13CR on here but the seller isnt responding to posts :( Is it just a sweeter box? Back in the day I replaced my SR with a Nova GTE but it was so long ago I dont remember the respective qualities of the boxes.

Good point on the Dizzy. I'll try and have a play with that tomorrow as Im very keen to get rid of the blasted misfire and the new plugs and HT leads havent cured it (although its made it a bit better)

To answer the question about what to power it with theres no way I want to fit a big block engine. Im not that sure on going GTE power as I would really really like to tune up the standard 1.3 if I can find all the right bits to do it.

Is there any benefit to fitting the standard supressor jobs to the spark plugs again or just connect the HT leads to the plugs directly as normal?

re the box, the sr box is a wide ratio with a lower diff, but the gte box is a proper close ratio box, it just has a better set of ratios.

the proper leads just had heat shields. but things have moved on, so new std ones should be ok.

[pimpinyourmum]

re the box, the sr box is a wide ratio with a lower diff, but the gte box is a proper close ratio box, it just has a better set of ratios.

the proper leads just had heat shields. but things have moved on, so new std ones should be ok.

Thanks, that explains it.

[pimpinyourmum]

OK.

Ive bought a set of twin 40's and manifold plus an F13CR gearbox all off forum members on here :)

Plus an ENEM cam off eBay. Its been a busy week of buying parts. Cant wait for everything to arrive wooo hooo

[sport]

OK.

Ive bought a set of twin 40's and manifold plus an F13CR gearbox all off forum members on here :)

Plus an ENEM cam off eBay. Its been a busy week of buying parts. Cant wait for everything to arrive wooo hooo


Whats the code off the cam youve bought? If its X17 then its the same spec as the irmscher 108 cam that was an option for the sport.

[EwanG]

I emailed the wax on cars company that was selling this car (it was for sale for months and thought there was serious rust problems with it because it never sold)and they didn't reply! They said NO RUST in the advert what parts are rusty?? If any? Just a matter of interest as I am searching for one the now...

[pimpinyourmum]

Whats the code off the cam youve bought? If its X17 then its the same spec as the irmscher 108 cam that was an option for the sport.


It says X3.

Is that good or bad do we think?

[pimpinyourmum]

I emailed the wax on cars company that was selling this car (it was for sale for months and thought there was serious rust problems with it because it never sold)and they didn't reply! They said NO RUST in the advert what parts are rusty?? If any? Just a matter of interest as I am searching for one the now...


Yes they were a pain to deal with. Never replied to my emails and then randomly sent me a text one night.

Yes, like you I was very sceptical on the "no rust" issue but it was true to his word. L:ast owner 15 years or so and surely must have had some body resto in the past?

A few pics showing how rust free it is:



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6323.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6319.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6318.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6316.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6325.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6305.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6310.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6309.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6313.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_6307.jpg

[sport]

It says X3.

Is that good or bad do we think?

X13 is more or less standard spec iirc

[Novasport]

Yes it is. Had one in my old Sport and it made no difference. Probably more of an injection cam

[pimpinyourmum]

X13 is more or less standard spec iirc

It says "X3" as opposed to "X13"

[pimpinyourmum]

Is anyone able to decifer this? Just been on ENEM's website and it shows cam specs as such:

X13 = X13 254/105/11.0/0.9
X 3 = X3 296/106/12.0/3.5

There appears to be a difference, I just dont understand the numbers.

[MK999]

Numbers look to me like, duration, **, maximum lift, lift at TDC

** Not sure what the 105/106 is, too large to be opening/closing angles, too small and too little difference to be any kind of lift in thou, could be the lobe seperation angles but not of great interest.

Guessing there's quite a lot of valve interference on these engines as the lift difference between the 2 cams is pretty small.

edit: as said though the X13 is not a lairy cam by anyone's standards.

[pimpinyourmum]

edit: as said though the X13 is not a lairy cam by anyone's standards.

Thats good to know but given the cam I have bought is not an X13 but is the X3 I suppose the X13 specs give me an 'OEM' baseline to compare to?

[MK999]

X3 will be a decent fast road/rally spec cam, as a rough guide.

[pimpinyourmum]

X3 will be a decent fast road cam.


Lovely. Thats what Im after. Its for road use only and I dont want to go OTT with the car :)

[MK999]

probably find it idles lumpy at 3.5mm/TDC... but you'd have to be mad to dislike that :d

[pimpinyourmum]

probably find it idles lumpy at 3.5mm/TDC... but you'd have to be mad to dislike that :d

A lumpy idle is just fine. I cammed up my Nova GTE years ago and loved the way it grumbled at idle...woo hoo. Its a fantastic sound and very distinctive so I can certainly live with that :)

[pimpinyourmum]

Can I just get some suggestions for a faulty the car exhibited on the drive home from picking it up?

The car was OK below say 40mph but once you get to 50mph theres a terrible whine. Its not high pitched but is sort of groaning noise. Very loud. Sounds like metal on metal but might not be. Accompanied by a wheel wobble at 55mph what may be completely unrelated of course.

Gearbox?
Diff?
Drive shaft?
Wheel bearing?

I know its hard without a video or being in the car but all help appreciated.

[mowgli]

look at the brake caliper sliders before you look at the wheel bearings.. then the gearbox

[pimpinyourmum]

look at the brake caliper sliders before you look at the wheel bearings.. then the gearbox

OK, will do. Are they a weak point?

That would make sense though as there was a smell of hot metal when I parked up. Would make sense if the brakes were binding slightly.

[mowgli]

the old delco type brakes are crap. most people on here have upgraded to 256mm ATE brakes, if they'll fit inside your rims,

[pimpinyourmum]

If I can I'd like to keep the brakes standard. Im trying not to stray too far from OEM given the car is a Mk1. I'll check out the brakes and give them a refurb and see if that clears it up.

[sport]

No dont keep the brakes standard there dangerous, change them to mk2 astra gte 16v to keep it in line with the OEM theme.

As for the noise if its from the gear box could be the thrust bearing.

[pimpinyourmum]

Look what the postman brought me this morning ;) WOO HOO!!! And its my birthday so a great day for them to arrive.


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/IMG_6465.jpg

[womble sri]

Look at Stu's guide on tuning the 1400. A good start would be to change to twin carbs if it is not a daily (can see the debate on twin carbs being efficient when set up properly already) and get an se head which are found on the SRI's/Gsi's/GTE's they have bigger ports which increases flow and makes a great difference. The only problem then is that your current inlet will not marry up to the new head. A friend of mine has a few se heads, two from Sri's and one from a GTE and he also happens to have an inlet maniflod that will suit both the head and a set of twin carbs. (i know because i sold him a garage load of stuff when o thought my days of novas were over!). Then you will need to think about ignition, I am not sure of the igntiton from the 1.3 sr will suffice as i did this to a 1.4sr but someone on here will be able to clarify. The mechanical fuel pump should provide enough fuel for the carbs but you will need a pressure regulator. Camshaft would be the next option, choice is dependant on what you expect from the car - Balls out power, driveability etc. these mods coupled with a decent flowing exhaust system will soon make the car fly, although it would be worth checking the condition of your engine/rebuilding for piece of mnd.

If you want the parts above drop me a PM and i will call my friend.

Neil

EDIT Didnt read whole thread Doh!

[pimpinyourmum]

Look at Stu's guide on tuning the 1400. A good start would be to change to twin carbs if it is not a daily (can see the debate on twin carbs being efficient when set up properly already) and get an se head which are found on the SRI's/Gsi's/GTE's they have bigger ports which increases flow and makes a great difference. The only problem then is that your current inlet will not marry up to the new head. A friend of mine has a few se heads, two from Sri's and one from a GTE and he also happens to have an inlet maniflod that will suit both the head and a set of twin carbs. (i know because i sold him a garage load of stuff when o thought my days of novas were over!). Then you will need to think about ignition, I am not sure of the igntiton from the 1.3 sr will suffice as i did this to a 1.4sr but someone on here will be able to clarify. The mechanical fuel pump should provide enough fuel for the carbs but you will need a pressure regulator. Camshaft would be the next option, choice is dependant on what you expect from the car - Balls out power, driveability etc. these mods coupled with a decent flowing exhaust system will soon make the car fly, although it would be worth checking the condition of your engine/rebuilding for piece of mnd.

If you want the parts above drop me a PM and i will call my friend.

Neil

EDIT Didnt read whole thread Doh!


Cheers for that. Yeah, as you can see I have bought a pair of twin 40's with inlet. Cant wait to get them fitted.

Ive also got the cam sorted. Just need to source the exhaust and try and determine the health of the engine. Are there any ti[ps anyone on how I decide whether the engine needs a rebuild or not???

[pimpinyourmum]

Well, i found the source of the misfire my engines had!!!!!

A broken cam follower floating around the top of my engine.........


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_7644.jpg


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/IMG_7645.jpg



Whilst looking for bits and pieces to fix it though I stumbled across a re-built Nova Sport engine complete with ancillaries and box on here so Ive bought that and cant wait to get it fitted to the car!!!!


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/b9boy/NOVA%20SR%20MK1/photo81.jpg





Just got to decide what brakes to upgrade to and what exhaust to fit. Any recommendations??

[paul james]

Astra 2.0 16v 256mm calipers are a great upgrade, and can be bought really cheaply. As for the exhaust, its generally considered that the standard 1.3 SR manifold is better than a basic 4-1 aftermarket one, as its a 4-2-1 design as standard. I use a stainless Magnex system on my sport carbed SR, they come up for sale second hand pretty often.

[pimpinyourmum]

Astra 2.0 16v 256mm calipers are a great upgrade, and can be bought really cheaply. As for the exhaust, its generally considered that the standard 1.3 SR manifold is better than a basic 4-1 aftermarket one, as its a 4-2-1 design as standard. I use a stainless Magnex system on my sport carbed SR, they come up for sale second hand pretty often.


Cheers for the nod on the brakes. Are these often referred to as "ATE" calipers or are they something different?

As for the exhaust the engine has a 4 branch on it so ill keep that for now. Cant see a Magnex system for sale atm but will keep an eye out. Anyone any views on the Sportex exhausts?