camshaft/valve timing

[marc69]

I have a 1.4 OHC witha mild kent 051 cam.

The engine runs but could run smoother, I have never worked with cam timing before so some advice would be helpful.

According to haynes, if the crank is lined up (also a hassle as there is no timing belt plate/cover on the car) then the standard cam should also line up (both at 12 o clock positions?)

The kent cam has a pointer on it and degrees, how should this all line up and is it just a case of slacken the belt, line them up and them tighten the belt?

Here are two p[ics, with the crank lined up,

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo286.jpg

[marc69]

a closer one with the pulley writing.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo287.jpg

[MK999]

You've got a dot on the pulley it seems, that should be your standard timing, the arrow with the numbers is the vernier adjustment, just set it all to standard for now, and you need the timing covers on there to do it properly really.

edit: also if that dot is the timing mark and the crank is lined up that's miles out (Timing marks always point near vertical on an 8v iirc?) I doubt it'd even run there... something seems wrong to me, I'd double check the crank marks.

[shed-on-wheels]

i always set the pullys ded in the center and the timeing marks are top pully 12 oclock and cylinder 1 ant tdc then one its dead on the slowly adjust the cam until you get her running spot on mate it takes ages this way but its the old school way lol

[shed-on-wheels]

oh and bottom pully is just slightly to the right theres a mark on the pil pump dude

[garyc]

I reckon that pulley isn't the right one for that belt. Belt looks square, pulley round tooth type.

[marc69]

I reckon that pulley isn't the right one for that belt. Belt looks square, pulley round tooth type.

well noticed, I didnt spot that.

[marc69]

You've got a dot on the pulley it seems, that should be your standard timing, the arrow with the numbers is the vernier adjustment, just set it all to standard for now, and you need the timing covers on there to do it properly really.

edit: also if that dot is the timing mark and the crank is lined up that's miles out (Timing marks always point near vertical on an 8v iirc?) I doubt it'd even run there... something seems wrong to me, I'd double check the crank marks.

Thanks, can anyone confirm that the dot is the mark?

[marc69]

i always set the pullys ded in the center and the timeing marks are top pully 12 oclock and cylinder 1 ant tdc then one its dead on the slowly adjust the cam until you get her running spot on mate it takes ages this way but its the old school way lol

Thanks, old school ways are my favourite anyway, simpler!

[marc69]

Today I removed the pulley and moved the belt forward one notch, put it all back together and tried it, not much difference, did the same again and again, not much difference.
I gave up there becasue when grabbing the distributor to get the ignition timing set too, I grabbed the cover which spun and broke the rotor arm, silly me.

Two questions,

if I am just moving one notch at a time, do I need to remove the plugs and check that I am not going to mash the valves before trying or, is there quite a bit of distance before that would happen?

Will it be quite a few notches before I notice any real difference? i.e. if it gets better, keep going or if it gets worse go the opposite way?

Thanks

[Andy]

Pulley and belt arent right for a start

[marc69]

Pulley and belt arent right for a start

Yes, I think the previous owner put wrong type of pulley on but I really don't want to spend more money on this until I at least know if the engine is potentially good and for testing, the belt seems to drive the pulley ok. The car is an onion, everything I look at, there are more wrong things to follow!

The engine sounds ok when revving but won't idle smoothly and stalls below 1200 rpm. I can't test how well it pulls as it is a long way from an mot.

So for just now, advice on the same two questions please,

if I am just moving one notch at a time, do I need to remove the plugs and check that I am not going to mash the valves before trying or, is there quite a bit of distance before that would happen?

Will it be quite a few notches before I notice any real difference? i.e. if it gets better, keep going or if it gets worse go the opposite way?

Thanks

[shed-on-wheels]

i tell you what dude i will have a look at my sr engine with the pully like this on and tell you where the timing mark is for top and bottom pully iirc its only the 1.4 8v that mashes valves on vauxhalls but dnt count me on that i know gte and 1,2 engines deffo dont

[marc69]

i tell you what dude i will have a look at my sr engine with the pully like this on and tell you where the timing mark is for top and bottom pully iirc its only the 1.4 8v that mashes valves on vauxhalls but dnt count me on that i know gte and 1,2 engines deffo dont

Thanks, guess what engine mine is, the one that mashes then! 1.4 8v

[shed-on-wheels]

oh nice i thought it was a 1.3 thats why i said lol sorry dude how clean does it rev is it slugish or anyhting it could just be the carbs need setting up dude

[burgo]

dont you have a standard pulley you could put on so you can set it up perfectly, then mark it all and put the adjustable pulley on, not that you can then adjust that pulley without being on a rolling road anyway so unless thats the plan its pretty pointless

[marc69]

The pulley etc is just how I bought it, it didn't come with the standard one.

It came with twin webbers but was sluggish to rev as they were jetted way too rich, I have since put it back on the standard pieberg 2e2 and it revs quite happily, just a really bad idle so i assume it can't be miles off if it is happy to rev.

[shed-on-wheels]

well then id adjust the timing on the dizzy end bud

[boffer8]

The easiest thing to do is to set all your own timing marks seen as you dont have the original reference points which are on the covers.

Firstly, remove all the spark plugs and place a small piece of welding wire down the hole of number 1 piston and feel the piston, now turn the crank over at the pulley end and hold the welding rod whilst you are doing this,then feel until the welding wire comes up as high as possible and as your turning it over you should feel it get easier when the piston reaches the top (TDC), try and get it as close as possible to the top, then mark the crank pulley with a white marker to a point on the oil pump.

Now move onto the cam, this needs to have the small dowel exactly vertically lined, i often find the easiest way to do this is to use a 30cm steel ruler, through the middle of the central bolt and over the top of the dowel and ensure it is vertical. if in the car i often use a plumb bob from the underside of the bonnet to get it bang on (so long as the car is on flat ground!)

Now onto the distributor end, hopefully the cam will have a slot right across the end of it and this should be lined up with a small cast marker on the cam carrier between the main engine section and the circular dizzy housing.

Now, when all these are aligned, refit all the belts, dizzy and plugs and ensure the pulley is set 0 degrees.

Now try and start the engine. it should fire first time, if not you will have the cam 360 degrees out, take the belt off again, turn the cam through 360 degrees and reassemble, then start the car.

Once this is done ensure the dizzy clamp is slightly loose then adjust the position of the dizzy to get the engine running right by ear, unless you have a strobe light and and can time it via that.

After this then you will have to speak to the manufacturer of the cam as they will have some good base settings for this particular cam, they may have on there website particular base settings for the camshaft timing relative to the crank. set these to what they say and then readjust the dizzy to get the engine run smoothly.

If after this is does not run smoothly then you need to check fueling and induction as this can lead to rough idleing and unsmooth revving through the rev range, a poor inlet manifold gasket seal can do this.

hope this helps
ben

[marc69]

Thanks, this looks like a good guide as there are no reference points at all on the car. I'll have a go by the weekend and see how I get on, I assume it's closish ad the car runs.

I have checked the inlet and carb gasket and tightness of bolts etc.

[marc69]

I used boffers guide above and the car is running, thanks. I have yet to find out from Kent cams what fine adjustments have to be made.

The lines I painted and the cam puleys lined up, I set the ignition timing by ear but the car still won't idle below 1200 rpm. With the car idling like this, I checked the ignition timing with the srobe light.....the paint marks are two notches on the crank apart, when the distributor is turned to get them to meet, it dies!

Is there a reason for this or do i just stick with it and leave the ignition done by ear?

Also, the belt is the wrong one so that is cheaper than getting a new pulley.

The cam is for injection cars but this is a carb car, is this why the idle is poor? I have been offered the standard 1.4sr cam but as the car is for track use, if the kent cam gives extra power I will leave it on even if the idle is rough.

[garyc]

If you have timing marks on the pulley to set the ignition timing, then line them up. The cam should be lined up vertically as boffer described.

Does your crank pulley have 1 or 2 notches? If it is one then that is 10 deg BTDC which is the standard ignition timing. When you rev the engine does the stobe light show the ignition is advancing?

[marc69]

I'll check the marks move on acceleration at the weekend but I know the distributor vacuum doesn't work.

The crank pulley has 2 notches, but when I set the timing I set the car on tdc. so what or how do I make it 10 deg btdc?

Also, I got advice from kent cams who said the valve timing should be set according to thier table which I have atttached here. I don't understand any of it! Is this something I can change at home or is it really specialist stuff or will I just have to trial and error my way through?

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/securedownload.png