View Full Version : car doesn't engage any gears
the car mentioned in the other thread (non running nova 1.4) won't move even though I have now got the engine running.
you can select a gear but it makes no difgerence, press the accelerator and nothing...
I know nothing about gearboxes and clutches so any ideas are very welcome,
gtegary
14-11-11, 07:28 PM
Sounds like the main gear box shaft may have slipped out. From what I remember they are held in by a little clip that's prone to snapping. This was te case on my mk1 Astra turbo.
Markd89
14-11-11, 07:31 PM
Clutch on the wrong way ?, did this on a rover 25 and wouldnt move took me 3 attempts to figure out what i did safe to say i can now do a gearbox on a rover 25 in 30 mins :thumb:
will it push forward in gear? obv turned off
Are the drive shafts in properly, mine did this and all it were was the last 5mm of the shaft had broke off inside the diff ... try that..
Need some more info realy pal, what have you done to it engine conversion? service? Did it just stop engaging gears etc etc?
As said above start with basics -
1. Will it engage gears when engine is off?
2. Are driveshafts in correctly?
3. Is gear linkage setup correctly and in one piece etc etc
4. Then id start looking at internals, is the clutch on the right way round? Is the release bearing on correctly? If all of the above are ok when you have removed gearbox check that the mainshaft is free and will spin when turned.
Thanks for the helpful replies,
I haven't investigated it properly yet as I have never touched a clutch or gearbox.
Here is as much as I knw at the moment.
The gear stick seems to go into gear and the bit in the engine bay moves as it does.
I haven't checked the driveshafts but there is no difference in engine noise when I move the gear knob through different gears
The gear linkage has all been altered froma standard nova, I don't know if this is part of the problem but going through all the gears with the engine turning, there is not even a scrape of change of note (using or not usng the clutch makes not difference)
I'll have a look at teh clutch later in the week but, I won't know if it's right or not!
brainsnova
14-11-11, 09:40 PM
If the clutch has been done the input shaft has probs been pulled back into the passenger wheel arch and either the bolt has came loose or the circlip hasnt been put in right or both lol I had this happen after the clutch was done pulled of from the lights and into 2nd and then no drive
I'll have a look to see, I suspect that whatever is wrong, was done when they put the engine/gearbox together.
I am actually pleased that the engine does go, I initilly thought it was knackered, progress....
Sounds like a broken shaft mate, pull them out and have a look. They should be tight coming out, if there not then I would say the circlip grooved bit has broken off.
clutch cable on too tight? ive done that on a punto before and was baffled lol
unhook the clutch cable from the box, put it into gear and flick the ignition on and see if it jumps forward
I have had a more thorough look tonight.
The car can be pushed even though it is in gear , the gear knob (froma corsa I think) moves easily out of gear. The mechanism for the gear changes is not the original, I will attach pictures below.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo264.jpg
The mechanism above the gear box has also been altered with rose joints? The boc was difficult to go into 2nd or fourth so, I undid the joints, moved the selector by hand into each gear (Ithink) and then adjusted the joints so taht they all gears select. Please bear in mind I know nothing about clutches and gear boxes.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo260.jpg
Still no improvement
Then i jacked the car to have a look at the clutch bit? the clutch cover isn't even on it, here are pics from the engine side and the clutch side, I don't know if this is what it should look like? If someone has fitted a clutch, does this look correct?
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo266.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo265.jpg
I had a look at the driveshafts, they are attached at least. I won't try removing them until I get a day hopefully at the weekend. Again, I have never done this before, according to haynes I need a special tool?
I did once move a driveshaft in my mini cooper by accident when putting on balljoints, I assume a nova driveshaft is a lot harder to shift?
nova driveshafts just come out with a good tug
did you disconnect the clutch cable like i said and try flicking the ignition on?
nova driveshafts just come out with a good tug
did you disconnect the clutch cable like i said and try flicking the ignition on?
Yes, i did that just now (my lunch hour gone!) Still exactly the same.
I'll have a go at the driveshafts tomorrow if I can get out of work in daylight.
I'll also have a look at the gear shaft at the end of the gear box.
My problem is I don't know what looks right and what doesn't.
I also looked on my other nova and when the gear is selected the selector goes hard against the casing whereas in this one it sits a few mm away as in picture. Even when unattached to the linkage, I can't push it in any further. Do they all move slightly differently or is it not in enough to select? Could this be the problem and can it be fixed or is it forked?
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo267.jpg
have a look at post number 92 and 93, http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?93294-*HOW-TO*-Rose-jointed-Linkage/page10
the nut used on the rosejoint that i arrowed will be hitting the gearbox casing meaning you can put the selector all the way in
ideally it needs cut off flush then welded and grinded a bit
Yes, the nut was hitting the gearbox, I undid the nut and took the mechanism off so the selector is clear, it still won't go in any furtehr than in the pic, is this why there is no drive and can this be changed?
Thanks for the advice so far, it's much appreciated
when you pull the selector rod backwards instead of forwards dosnt it click into gear? try rotating the joint in your picture and then either pushing it in or out
if you still cant get it into gear, take the 4 10mm (i think) bolts off the selector turret on top of the gearbox (in your pic) and lift if off the gearbox
when you look inside you will see some metal bar things that go across the way with a gap on each one
when the gaps are all in the same place that is neutral, try sliding the bars across manually (engine off obviously) then put a rag over the gearbox and flick the ignition on and see if car jumps forward
if it dosnt either your box is goosed or something up with the driveshafts, wrong cvs or something
Thanks, I'll have a go of that tomorrow but, I am thinking the box is faulty, I'll probably look at the driveshafts at the weekend just incase and apparenty I can see if the clutch works by having the engine turning and someone pressing it if I am looking under the removed plate (obviously out of gear incase it actually decides to emgage!).
If it's not the drive shafts or cluth then it has to be the box I suppose. I'll post my results and see what you think, thanks as i said before I know nothing about gearboxes and clutches, I am more ignorant than usual here.
i dont think its the shafts tbh, either somethings not connected right or the box is goosed, it could be the bit inside the selector turret isnt located in the bars correctly that i mentioned earlier
when putting the turret back on make sure all the bars line up with the gap all in a line and place the turret back on with the bit inside the turret sliding down the gaps
you will see what i mean once you have the turret off
I took the cover off the selector a short while ago and checked that all the gaps were in the middle here's a pic.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo269.jpg
and did as yoyu said, here is the middle one pushed sideways, sadly still no difference however there was some gear oil on the rag and when I took the cover off, the screws were loose indicating to me the pprevious owner had been in.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo268.jpg
I also looked at the clutch with the engine running, i assume the clutch is the ufo shaped thing above the clutch cover? It was spinning with the clutch pedal pressed (good use of a steering lock) and was still spinning when the cable was removed.......is this the problem?
Todays work
I looked at the clutch mechanism and it does move in and out.
I took the cover off the end of the gear box, went to slacken the hexi for the input shaft, as in pic below,
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo270.jpg
The hexi bit just spins freely by hand, you can turn it loads one way or the other it goes no further in and no further out.
when turning it, the shaft that goes into the clutch doesn't move.
Is this how it should be? According to haynes, this should let me in to move the input shaft? Any ideas if this is why there is no drive?
id be more hlp mate but thats about as much as i safely know before talking crap lol
id be more hlp mate but thats about as much as i safely know before talking crap lol
No problem, thanks for the help and advice up to now anyway
mowgli is the man to talk to maybe send him a pm with a link to this thread :)
Thanks, 've done that so hopefully I'll get an idea.............
It's a bit frustrating, a car that can't move!
im thinking it has something to do with the cluth since moving the selectors along dosnt change anything
is your clutch mechanism working ok? as in does the lever actually work the release lever? is the clutch actually producing drive to the box? with the shifter box lid off, you could try turning the engine over by hand to see if it moves the input shaft, this will tell you if the clutch plate /input shaft is ok or not.
if the input is ok, then you could jack one wheel up & turn it to see if the output shaft, diff & driveshafts are working ok
if you aren't finding any gears, then just to be sure, you need to set the linkage as per the haynes book, as their method is the best. you use a 4.5mm drill bit as a lock in the shifter box, then slacken the clamp bolt off & set the stick to between 1st & 2nd. then clamp it back up.
i think it will be a clutch or linkage adjustment issue, as the f10/f13 box is pretty difficult to kill
Thanks, I'll have a look tomorrows and try the advice.
I did all the checks asked for above, starting with the clutch, the mechanism moves the lever inside. I took the shifter cover off, spark plugs out and turned the engine by hand.....movement in the gearbox.
Jacked up a wheel and turned it whilst in gear...nothing. Got a mate round for more strength (he knows less than me, worrying) and another set of eyes. Jacked both wheels, in gear, if one is turned the other should go the other direction if the diff etc work as far as I know. Each wheel moved freely on it's own, Bum!
Next, wheels off , etc, take both driveshafts out and use a mallet to make sure they are really driven home. Guess what, yes, we have drive...
Then I spent time adjusting the rose joints to ensure all gears can be got except reverse. Drove in up the few feet of my drive so I assume from this the gear box works, I am well pleased.
NOW, 5 forward gears but no reverse, as can be seen in an earlier pic the gear lever etc is not a Nova one and reverse is down beside 2nd not beside 1st which is where I assume all novas are.
Is the only way to change this to fit a nova one back on? If so, I can get access to a scrapped 4 speed 1.0 car, if I take the whole linkage up to the gear box from and including the gear lever, will it work on a 5 speed or will I only get access to the 4 speeds?
Or is there an easier way round it than changing everything?
Many thanks to everyone so far for the advice, I can see light at the end of the transmission tunnel.
therealnovaboy
19-11-11, 07:28 PM
the 1 litre linkage will work and will select all 5 gears.
My guess would be the linkage is not right and you cant get reverse.
best thing to do would be to first make sure you have set up the gear stick as mowgli said by the haynes method.
to check the box is ok, pull the linkage off the box and move the selector pin on the gearbox to select reverse. If you pul in, out and twist the pin youl find reverse (i cant think which way without looking at it but youll work it out). you might need to rock the car back and forth to get it to select reverse. if you can get reverse its the linkage thats not right. probably because its been messed about with and the rose joints have been put on poorly.
I had one that the bush in the middle of the linkage was so worn you couldnt get enough throw to select the gear.
Whoopp I was right :)
Yes bang on!!!! Thanks
the 1 litre linkage will work and will select all 5 gears.
My guess would be the linkage is not right and you cant get reverse.
best thing to do would be to first make sure you have set up the gear stick as mowgli said by the haynes method.
to check the box is ok, pull the linkage off the box and move the selector pin on the gearbox to select reverse. If you pul in, out and twist the pin youl find reverse (i cant think which way without looking at it but youll work it out). you might need to rock the car back and forth to get it to select reverse. if you can get reverse its the linkage thats not right. probably because its been messed about with and the rose joints have been put on poorly.
I had one that the bush in the middle of the linkage was so worn you couldnt get enough throw to select the gear.
Thanks, I think you are right, the gear stick and cage put in the car selects reverse by pulling up a bit to the knob and then going down beside 2nd which is miles off froma nova and the rose joints were way off, couldn't select anything but 3rd originally.
I'll just have to be patient and wait a month or so til I can access the old 1.0...............yawn
you need to cut the small lug off under the gearstick gaitor on the right of the base of the gearstick alowing the gearstick to engage 5th
make sure you are using a 5 speed selector turret as well as they both look identical but arent, i tried using a 4 speed turret when i converted from a 1.0 to a 1.4 and coudlnt get 5th untill i changed the turret
Thanks, I'll rememebr that when I get the linkages.
I drove the car today, it actually moved under it's own steam. I got first and second but, in second the engine doesn't have enough power to actualy drive it. I think I'll try removing the twin webers and attempt putting in an old peiburg just to get going.
However, I undid the linkage and tried to find reverse manually, I cannot find it, I spoke to the previous owner who never got the car going but he thinks the box is an f13 and says the owner before ran it on a 1.6 and a 2.0.
Am I correct in assuming reverse will be beside 1st?
If so, is there a technique to moving the selector by hand in order to get reverse?
I don't want to go to the bother and expense of changing the gear stick and linkages if the gearbox can't select reverse.
Any advice is welcome please.
twist it to the far left & pull back iirc to find reverse.
how have you set the gearstick up?
use a 4.5mm drill bit
(im gonna make an articler with pics on this as it gets asked alot)
slacken the clamp on the selector rod
on top of the selector turret will be a small black bung thats on the backside of the turret
remove the bung and insert a 4.5mm drill bit and turn the part that comes out the turret clockwise while pushing the drill bit in, it should pop in slightly further
get a friend to hold the gearstick to the left in between 1st and second
tighten the clamp up
remove the drill bit and you should have all gears
if you dont you might need to adjust your rosejoints
I have done this but still can't find reverse. Is it likely that the gearbox has a fault and won't get reverse?
Here is a pic of the linkage/gearbox, 1 is the joint I removed before setting with the drill bit etc, it's exactly the same. However, I then wondered if it is supposed to be the joint numbered 2 that should have been loosened or both?
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo2602.jpg
Sorry for being so continually thick!
Is it because the nova gear gets pushed down first whereas the (cavalier I think) set up doesn't?
With both joints removed, i still can't find reverse using the thing out the gearbox by hand, should I be able to as I an find the other five gears?
I tried loosening both joints today using the drill bit etc. Still no reverse.....any ideas, I am getting very frustrated with the car!
I have been very busy with this box and being very cross...
I removed the gears (with advice which was spot on and much appreciated), the reverse shaft was seized. I removed it and put in another one, it siezed too!
I then filed the casing a bit and greased everything, I can now move the gears (when out the car) into reverse and back with one hand.
Tried putting it all back together, it would not go in reverse.....going mad now!
Removed it all and had a brainwave.... when reverse is selected, the shaft goes into the bit still attached to the car, perhaps that is damaged. Right enough, the face is all bashed so, I file it and then thought before i put it all back together, shove the old rough shaft in just to make sure it moves freely.
Guess what...I ca't get it back out, tried a claw hammer and all sorts, any ideas?
Here is a pic to give you a giggle.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/69marc/Photo279.jpg
pikey1986
01-12-11, 03:19 PM
just buy a new box mate, saves all the cocking about
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