View Full Version : best suspension setup?
basilmk1
09-11-11, 10:03 AM
Hi guys just thought id see what suspension setup people recommend, handling wise more than comfort realy, any advice would be great, cheers in advance
eibach (spelling) springs are good from what iv heard....
billy shocks maybe?
iv got jamex shocks and rear spring and spax ssx front spring on the "egg" and thats quite nice considering the a lot cheaper than a good set of collys
Depends on budget, the best price/performance combo I've seen are the Gaz coilover kits when we got a discount.
the e30 boys have a fascination with Eibach springs and billy shocks. apparently it an awesome combination
Depends on budget and what you are using the car for
basilmk1
09-11-11, 03:17 PM
Depends on budget and what you are using the car for
No limit on budget realy and mainly road use i.e back lanes and moors
turbojolt
09-11-11, 03:22 PM
Flash ****er gaz gold then lol
NOV4_SPORT
09-11-11, 03:23 PM
Best road set up I have heard of is eibach springs with bilstein cup dampers, the ones with the thick bodies not cheap but a really good set up.
No limit on budget realy and mainly road use i.e back lanes and moors
If no limit on budget, get these \/\/\/\/\/\/\/ perfect for fast road, just get your allignment done, and you got your self a good lil handling car
Best road set up I have heard of is eibach springs with bilstein cup dampers, the ones with the thick bodies not cheap but a really good set up.
Bilstein do some coilovers for about £1300, could look into those lol
Renewing everything else, bushes etc, is worthwhile if you're going ot the trouble of trying to get it to handle well
Best road set up I have heard of is eibach springs with bilstein cup dampers, the ones with the thick bodies not cheap but a really good set up.
Thats the set up i have on my Sport
I also had these shocks on my XE, they are the best non height adjustable shocks on the market IMO
turbojolt
09-11-11, 05:00 PM
Are strut braces worth the money?
phunkynova
09-11-11, 06:53 PM
No money limit yer ok then go to a F1 team I'm sure after some research,development and testing they will have a set up for you for around a million.
Back in the real world you have a limit, but to start at the top end Proflex at about £5000 or £500 up for good coil-overs.
£500 for a set of AVO GTZ coil-over or £900 for there comp spec coil-overs GTX
Are strut braces worth the money?
depends what money, just won one for 99p haha
rear ones are pointless imo if they go from strut to to strut top, better off getting a chassis one bolted or welded in
turbojolt
09-11-11, 07:29 PM
But can you notice the added stiffness to the front end
dont know, it hasn't arrived yet lol
basilmk1
09-11-11, 07:45 PM
No money limit yer ok then go to a F1 team I'm sure after some research,development and testing they will have a set up for you for around a million.
Back in the real world you have a limit, but to start at the top end Proflex at about £5000 or £500 up for good coil-overs.
£500 for a set of AVO GTZ coil-over or £900 for there comp spec coil-overs GTX
i sed no limit realy, what i meant was i dont mind payin more for a better product, but come on would you realy want to spend 5k on a setup just for road use, i know i wouldnt! i was just seein what people on here recommended realy as most people on here seem very freindly and willin to give advice
turbojolt
09-11-11, 07:56 PM
I've got spaz Rsx coilovers, and the very small amount of driving I've done with them on they seemed very good
womble sri
09-11-11, 08:13 PM
Leda coilovers :)
Spax RSX
Really? I found mine to be utter sh*te. Bangy and crashy, crap ride naff build.
BRoadGhost
10-11-11, 09:24 PM
Yeah Ledas with 350 lbs/in all round with the largest wheels possible and lowest possible center of gravity should put things where you want it.
turbojolt
10-11-11, 09:34 PM
Are you sure, I'm pretty sure 15"wheels are ment to he the best
BRoadGhost
11-11-11, 10:53 PM
You can't get the center of gravity lower on smaller wheels like 15's.
explain please...
The more you raise it with wheels the more you can lower it! duhhh. Also if you skim the cambox it gives you more valve lift, electric supercharger and a fuel line magnet and you're well on the way to success.
Yeah Ledas with 350 lbs/in all round with the largest wheels possible and lowest possible center of gravity should put things where you want it.
350lb all round?
Bilstien recommend 180 front and 120 rear that's what they supplied with my coilovers,
BRoadGhost
12-11-11, 10:05 PM
Yeah sorry what you want is 15's with 195/45's and a -60MM drop. Sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about.
Short of actually modifying the shell so the upper suspension mounting points are higher up I three am also failing to get a vision as to why bigger wheels would make any car go lower though?
+2" rim diameter = +1" higher ride hight (in theory allegedly...) coupled with increased rolling radius & increased rotational weight from rim size & also increased tyre weight? Which inturn will increase unsprung weigth by, at a guess, say 2~4kg per corner.
So from my knowledge & point of view, its nothing but a fail on say, an out an out race car for example.
Interested in your theory though.
BRoadGhost
12-11-11, 10:55 PM
Well why not modify the shell, is there a limit to what we're allowed to do now to a road legal car?
Why couldn't it be a road going racer? Because it's just a nova?
Maybe the gearbox you're running is so close, with the power the engine's making, gearing the thing up with a bigger rolling radius is a good thing.
Perhaps the rim size is ideal for the track tyre you can just about run before going wide arch. Some drivers might like a lower aspect tyre and a larger footprint; not to mention increased longevity and better cooling.
What if you want larger then 308MM front brakes? You assume that all 15" wheels are lighter than the next size up and so on.
350lb all round?
Bilstien recommend 180 front and 120 rear that's what they supplied with my coilovers,
Funk me thats soft!!!!! you will be rocking some hard ass damping to make that handle 'ok' then the ride will be horrific :( Gonna need a manly ARB too which the nova simply cannot do.
I'd go with about 350-450lb up front and probably something like 300-500lb for the rears (depending how stiff the fronts were), and then have nice soft damping :)
GAZ golds = LEDA design now anyway ;)
Well why not modify the shell, is there a limit to what we're allowed to do now to a road legal car? Bit beyond the abilities and funds of 99% of owners, and you can modify the shell with 15's on, and retain the advantages of both.
Why couldn't it be a road going racer? Because it's just a nova? Because setting up a road car with the stiffness required for an out and out race car would make it handle like crap on the roads
Maybe the gearbox you're running is so close, with the power the engine's making, gearing the thing up with a bigger rolling radius is a good thing. Personally I'd rather gear it up with, I don't know, the gear ratios? Than compromise another. probably more important part of the cars performance
Perhaps the rim size is ideal for the track tyre you can just about run before going wide arch. Some drivers might like a lower aspect tyre and a larger footprint; not to mention increased longevity and better cooling. So we've got the funds to modify mounting points in a beneficial way but not enough to buy whatever tyres we need? Lower profiles and larger footprints are just going to compromise mechanical grip on a car so light, you'll end up with a tiny slither of contact... hence the increased longevity and cooler running from putting less work through the rubber.
What if you want larger then 308MM front brakes? You assume that all 15" wheels are lighter than the next size up and so on. So this road going race nova is actually heavy enough to warrant 308mm+ brakes? Probably about time to strip it out and take the ballast out. That's a pretty fair assumption... bigger wheels are heavier, if you can spend x amount on 18's it's reasonable to assume you can spend that same amount on 15's of the same style and therefore a lighter weight, and then get tyres with the change.
.
Eurgh.... here we go again....
Obviously working around motorsport etc for around ten years or so has taught me nothing it seems :roll:
I was actually putting across an example, ergo an out an out race car where time does matter more then driver feedback. But like youve said, its only a Nova so not worth hassle.
Novasport
12-11-11, 11:34 PM
Best road set up I have heard of is eibach springs with bilstein cup dampers, the ones with the thick bodies not cheap but a really good set up.
That is what I will be running with. I have a set Irmscher Bilstein Cups with Eibach Pro-Kit -30/35mm springs for both of the Nova's
MK, I think hes running on the assumption you Nova owners have all got a few spare £kkk knocking around to buy Mag 17"s, Reiger racing suspension at £5k +Vat a pop & a hefty 150amp MiG plus the skills to use it...
Get in the real world mon......
A nova no matter what has been spent on it is going to handle like complete crap on 17's
A nova no matter what has been spent on it is going to handle like complete crap on 17's
lol never let thought come between you and the keyboard huh lol
BRoadGhost
13-11-11, 12:15 AM
Responding to the state of some of the replies "isn't worth the hassle."
MK999 you are the perfect example of a typical board user that reminds me why I stopped posting for so many years and kinda wished I never bothered again.
I disagree - Modifying the shell isn't beyond 99% of owners because of funds / ability.
I don't think a stiff nova makes it handle like crap on our roads - define "crap" - if you're talking about some underdeveloped chassis with fcuk all stroke and little structural strength that you still might be familiar with then don't tar those that know what they're doing with the same brush. Maybe your body is naturally more stodgy than others and can't [or doesn't want to] deal with the impact poor roads can subject said vehicle to.
Why change the perfectly good gearbox when it's ideally suited to larger wheels based on the power it makes?
Just stop and think about how my tyres you'll go through on said car; if there's a perfect size that's more commonly available and therefore more affordable, you'd be a mug going for something else with no benefit. A larger footprint won't compromise mechanical grip.
lol @ bigger brakes just because the car's "heavy" - that's not the only reason why you go larger and it was only ten seconds ago you were saying the car is "so light". So which is it "heavy" or "light"? What is "heavy" or "light" and where is it "heavy" or "light"?
Who cares who's spent x amount of time doing y to cars in / out of the industry - like there's a correlation without exception, that in the time you spent doing something makes you better than the next man, on the same subject, who may or may not have experienced exactly what you have.
the trouble with a handling thread is this.
its a personal taste thing..
turbojolt
13-11-11, 08:43 AM
Cut springs, buckled alloys wrapped in stretched tyres its always a winner
but if you cut them too short, you run the risk of not being able to reach up the the drive thru window....
turbojolt
13-11-11, 09:12 AM
Didn't think of that, the wisdom you be mowgli its legendary
350lb all round?
Bilstien recommend 180 front and 120 rear that's what they supplied with my coilovers,
Really? I run 300lbs all round on mine, the guys at Rally design and Gaz said that would be perfect. (Lee303 gave me a few tips of specing mine up)
but if you cut them too short, you run the risk of not being able to reach up the the drive thru window....
Ah not just me that has that prob then... I use the sunroof.
i have no sunroof.....
the 180 & 120 lb springs are what i'd expect for actual forest stage rallying.
350lb all round?
Bilstien recommend 180 front and 120 rear that's what they supplied with my coilovers,
As mentioned previously, that seems mega soft tbh.
When i actually used my nova i ran i think 310 on the front and 200 on the rear. Did at one point run 440 on the rear, which made the rear end slightly "interesting" lol
i had a set of spax adjustables on my previous nova, and when i first fitted them, the rears were on the stiffest setting... oversteer ahoy...
Responding to the state of some of the replies "isn't worth the hassle."
MK999 you are the perfect example of a typical board user that reminds me why I stopped posting for so many years and kinda wished I never bothered again.
I disagree - Modifying the shell isn't beyond 99% of owners because of funds / ability. Fair enough your opinion
I don't think a stiff nova makes it handle like crap on our roads - define "crap" - if you're talking about some underdeveloped chassis with fcuk all stroke and little structural strength that you still might be familiar with then don't tar those that know what they're doing with the same brush. Maybe your body is naturally more stodgy than others and can't [or doesn't want to] deal with the impact poor roads can subject said vehicle to. Stiff enough to be an all out racer means the springs are totally unsuitable for road use, rally cars don't run circuit racer springs and vice versa, and there's a good reason for that... It's not a case of the stiffer the springs are the better it's gonna handle.
Why change the perfectly good gearbox when it's ideally suited to larger wheels based on the power it makes? Circular argument, why change a perfectly good wheel size, modify the chassis, alter the suspension, and spend thousands when you can change the gearbox to suit to 1/100th of the cost
Just stop and think about how my tyres you'll go through on said car; if there's a perfect size that's more commonly available and therefore more affordable, you'd be a mug going for something else with no benefit. A larger footprint won't compromise mechanical grip. So suddenly we're considering affordability? Show me a set of brand new 18" tyres that are cheaper than 15's then. I assume we're not using partworns on this multi million pound build? A larger footprint wouldn't compromise grip, you're right... Unfortunately larger tyres don't mean a larger footprint, they mean a tiny little slither of contact right at the bottom of the tyre, rather than a much nicer more rounded fat contact patch.
lol @ bigger brakes just because the car's "heavy" - that's not the only reason why you go larger and it was only ten seconds ago you were saying the car is "so light". So which is it "heavy" or "light"? What is "heavy" or "light" and where is it "heavy" or "light"? Braking requirements are defined by the centre of gravity and hence the amount of longitudinal weight shift, the tyres grip coefficients and the WEIGHT of the car. You wouldn't try and stop a bus with 5 inch wide drums off a mini, and you wouldn't try and stop a mini with some 14" 8 pots off of a 1.5tonne supercar.
Who cares who's spent x amount of time doing y to cars in / out of the industry - like there's a correlation without exception, that in the time you spent doing something makes you better than the next man, on the same subject, who may or may not have experienced exactly what you have.
I've no doubt at all you can make a Nova on 18's work, or a nova on 13's, or a Nova with the centre section of the shell chopped out entirely and replaced with plywood and oak bracing, doesn't mean that I'm off down the wood yard to bag me the quickest nova ever built though, because working round the disadvantage would cost thousands to get to the same level.
blue_peg_16v
13-11-11, 01:07 PM
For road use I couldn't fault my koni adjustables
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_yes.gif
But seriously, if you have a decent wedge to spend, and want a sensible handling car, choose between a set of gaz coilovers, or some thick ram bilsteins and springs, use what ever wheels look pretty on your car, and stick some decent tyres on it, and Roberts your mothers brother.
Theres no need to turn every road going car into a bloody track weapon like some guys are suggesting lol cars do actually handly okay on cheap ebay springs and shocks, when compared to the OE setup. But not when compared to an F1 car.
the trouble with a handling thread is this.
its a personal taste thing..
^this. Handling is down to personal preference
and also handling is a mystery factor, whereas tyre grip & traction are measureable...
peester
13-11-11, 04:33 PM
ha and no ones mentioned big block / small block yet.
Original post mentioned 'comfy' so most coilover kits and over 300lb poundage spring rates ought to be out the window ide say.
Really? I run 300lbs all round on mine, the guys at Rally design and Gaz said that would be perfect. (Lee303 gave me a few tips of specing mine up)
Ah not just me that has that prob then... I use the sunroof.
Mine is for a 1.6 not a LET though :)
craig green
13-11-11, 05:22 PM
Personally I think selecting a good suspension package from the tripe out there is the 1st hurdle, secondly dont overlook the importance of fresh buches & erradicating any play in steering components etc, then have it all aligned & tracked properly (corner weighted if you are getting serious) & you should end up with something pretty rewarding to drive.
No doubt people compare their car with a mates or an enemies car when out driving, but you have to take into account that something more modern or larger will likely have far more high speed stability than a Nova ever could. I've always found a Novas strong point to be quick directional changes (roundabouts & country lanes etc), not fast sweeping sections of dual carriageway.
Mine is for a 1.6 not a LET though :)
imho mostly irrelevant.... I'd spring a 1.6 or a V6/LET the same
Original post mentioned 'comfy' so most coilover kits and over 300lb poundage spring rates ought to be out the window ide say.
Mine when set on fully soft, give a really smooth gently ride.
Personally I think selecting a good suspension package from the tripe out there is the 1st hurdle, secondly dont overlook the importance of fresh buches & erradicating any play in steering components etc, then have it all aligned & tracked properly (corner weighted if you are getting serious) & you should end up with something pretty rewarding to drive.
No doubt people compare their car with a mates or an enemies car when out driving, but you have to take into account that something more modern or larger will likely have far more high speed stability than a Nova ever could. I've always found a Novas strong point to be quick directional changes (roundabouts & country lanes etc), not fast sweeping sections of dual carriageway.
Very true, i find no two cars drive a like.
New bushes and ball joints can make a hell of a difference.
BRoadGhost
13-11-11, 11:09 PM
MK999 I knew you'd come back with that same sh1t rephrased to try and underline your stance.
I'm not breaking it all down again because the way you think about things isn't the same as me - you're the sort of person that wouldn't engineer something groundbreaking because you think if you haven't read about it before it isn't right.
Won't argue anymore with someone like you about all the undefined sh1t like what brakes you put on a "mini". What mini? Which mini? You mean any mini you've seen before that doesn't warrant bigger wheels / brakes than 14" because it doesn't make more than 240 horses? What about the a space framed one with 1200+HP? That not gonna handle right on the road because it's chassis is too hard, not be able to grip because the tyres are taller than you think it should have or not be able to stop because it's using 14" disks instead of drums?
It's just utter nonsense.
You sir are a n0b.
So, more power = bigger brakes, and the larger your wheels are the better your grip? Stiffer your suspension set up is the better it handles over pot holes. Got it :)
Apologies for all the incorrect statements taken from the actual real world.
imho mostly irrelevant.... I'd spring a 1.6 or a V6/LET the same
Why? Surely you can't suggest using the same spring rate and dampers on a 1.6 and a 3.2 ??
Fair enough on a track harder may be better but in real road driving it would be horrid, I know around my area I'd be bounced of the road with an ultra stiff set up,
the weight difference between the powertrains will not be that much, think how having a passenger doesn't affect the handling that much. ok, for an all out competition car, things would be different, but only if you have a large testing budget.
Why? Surely you can't suggest using the same spring rate and dampers on a 1.6 and a 3.2 ??
Fair enough on a track harder may be better but in real road driving it would be horrid, I know around my area I'd be bounced of the road with an ultra stiff set up,
You seem to have hard springs and damping and ride mixed up a little.
As Bennnnnnnnn says, he runs hardish springs and soft damping and its fine... I ran much harder springs on the VX and little to no damping and that was spot on, on the rough roads or a smooooth track.
Mr Ghost, please refrain from dropping to personal insults when you are out of other avenues of discussion.
You may be right stu as I'm not fully clued up on damping rates yet, for my 180lb front springs my dampers are 270/120 but I'm unsure of how that figure works in terms of stiff/ soft damper?
BRoadGhost
14-11-11, 11:43 AM
Yeah apologies Stuart; it just gets massively frustrating when individuals only look at one aspect of a vehicle then start laying down the latest statement lifted straight from their textbook of blinkered builds.
If you're overheating tyres or brakes on a regular basis and not using all the car's performance as a result, put simply; you don't go SMALLER.
Screw potholes. Fcuk em and sh1tty B road undulation that gets you airbourne. Breaking / damaging the shell / components can happen on the road as easily as on a circuit. You've got a welder; fix it.
I would rather have something you should drive a little slower on the road because of setup & faster on a circuit than the other way round.
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