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therealnovaboy
03-11-11, 07:42 PM
I was talking to my brother today and was telling me about his trip to a fibreglass specialist in Aberdeenshire the other day.

The story starts when he purchased an immaculate OE FG hard top for his lotus Elise. Unsurprisingly the courier that delivered the roof had destroyed it by letting it bounce about the van. The corners were destroyed and he went to see the FG specialist to get a repair quote. Anyway, an old boy, 50 odd rocks up and said the repair shouldn’t be a problem. My brother has a news with him and asks if he dose much FG car body work. He explained not so much now as the cost to make moulds for one off parts is too expensive and not many people ask for it. He went on to explain that there was a guy who asked him to make a FG manta shell. He said it was for a car that was being made for some race, which had an old 4WD F1 car engine, transmission and chassis. He said the car was lengthened to accommodate the manta shell and it was his job to make the FG shell. The old guy said "the boy spent an afa lot of money on it but they cancelled the race". My brother said "it wasn’t group B was it". "Aye that’s it group B he said" . Supposedly the car was never finished and sits in a shed in Turriff somewhere. The Guy said the driver of the F1 car was dead now, I think my brother said Jim Clark?

I found this quite interesting and was wondering if anyone knows what f1 car it was and any info on the car as group B and 4WD F1 was before my time. Perhaps some of the old dears on here might have some info?

novarally
03-11-11, 08:10 PM
To the best of my (limited) F1 knowledge, they've never run as 4WD. I stand to be corrected though as I don't follow it.

A Formula 1 style engine would be utterly unusable in a rally car, so it seems unlikely that this car was ever destined for the rally stages.

Jim Clark, the F1 driver who we all know, died in the 1960's, so it won't have been him..........obviously there could be another Jim Clark who could have been involved.

I recall that Opel did do some development work into a 4WD Manta, but that was canned in favour of the shorter wheelbase Astra/Kadett 4S, which was running a turbocharged version of the Manta 400 engine.

MK999
03-11-11, 08:12 PM
I do recall a 4wd at some point, Cosworth DFV's have also been recycled in a few race cars before. However I'm sceptical it has anything to do with Group B. Supersaloons, possibly, I'm fairly sure I remember one of those running a DFV actually?

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive_in_Formula_One

Few in the 60's/70's

therealnovaboy
03-11-11, 08:16 PM
from a bit of googling ive found that they did develop a 4wd manta but was never used. it is said to have used a ferguson 4wd system. i searched that and it looks like it was a ferguson P99 f1 car driven by stirling moss. This was the only ever 4wd f1 car to win a race.

I take it its ferguson as in the tractor?

novarally
03-11-11, 08:21 PM
Good excuse to post this link, as we're talking of the wonderful Manta;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R7ws741KpE&feature=related

When rallies featured real roads, and real men drove rally cars.

autoworksnovasport
03-11-11, 08:27 PM
thats some awesome driving especially when he catches that wall and still holds it

Stuart
03-11-11, 08:37 PM
from a bit of googling ive found that they did develop a 4wd manta but was never used. it is said to have used a ferguson 4wd system. i searched that and it looks like it was a ferguson P99 f1 car driven by stirling moss. This was the only ever 4wd f1 car to win a race.

I take it its ferguson as in the tractor?

Yes the tractor people.

They were one of the few who made 4wd systems for car use... the Jensen FF as an example.
Then the mainstream gearbox folks came along and started making them

Royston
03-11-11, 08:45 PM
Yes Harry Ferguson, the tractor man, designed the viscous coupling, first production car was the Jensen FF, which utilise 3 off viscous coulpings.

Probably the first mass produced car was Ford Sierra 4x4 used the same 3 off viscous coupling design.

Harry Ferguson designed/inovated many things, not just 3 point linkage on a tractor

mowgli
03-11-11, 09:14 PM
i think it would have been for modsports or hill climbing, or just a good story.. it might even have been a club rally car

gary_126
04-11-11, 03:27 PM
Talking of 4wd proto types, saw this on the total vauxhall fb page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxnGo5nDbw

Mike
04-11-11, 04:17 PM
Talking of 4wd proto types, saw this on the total vauxhall fb page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxnGo5nDbw

Thats just an Astra 4S

CooperGSi on here has a turbo 4x4 Astra Mk3.