View Full Version : good bye paintball
General Baxter
18-10-11, 09:20 PM
;)
ACPO has commissioned the FSS to cary out definitive testing for lethality and the results are out.
ACPO now consider 370fps full auto and 520fps single shot as the levels where lethality kick in (1.5j and 2.5j respectively) Anything over that is a firearm (air rifle) so full auto guns, are considered section 5 firearms over that.
Single shot is anything that discharges a single shot with one pull of the trigger, so includes semi auto.
We used to operate in a very convenient grey area regarding lethality and had a lot of leeway as nothing was certain, that leeway has now disappeared.
so all paintball guns are going to be section 5 firearms lol
**** even my air rifle is now one :p
Jackroadkill
18-10-11, 09:30 PM
Sheesh - where'd you get that info? I'm an avid shooter of all types of firearms, but especially air rifles, so I'm intrigued by them going sec 5.
Nick, that would also include BB guns.... ergo airsoft.
General Baxter
18-10-11, 09:32 PM
i have my sorces,
half of my 'water guns' are now section 5 firearms lol
mike, more airsoft site limits are 350fully auto, 500fps single shot, so it really dont bother us lol
so do we all need to be applying for some sort of FAC to own a air ffs
Jackroadkill
18-10-11, 09:34 PM
This could potentially pose me a problem; I have a shotgun cert and a firearms cert (including a slot for FAC air); I wonder will this mean that my sub 12fpe rifles and pistol will have to go on my FAC?
Section 5’ Prohibited Weapons
‘Section 5’ covers weapons that are prohibited unless special permission is granted by the Home Secretary. This section covers automatic weapons, military weapons and modern handguns. Specialist collectors and dealers are able to gain Section 5 authority but is will not be available to the vast majority of shooters and collectors. http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/f_prohb2.htm provides full details of the list and restrictions.
Thats us sorted then :)
so does this mean air guns are going to be banned for wants of a better word
so who suddenly got shot & killed by some noggin with an air gun??? did i miss a news story somewhere???
General Baxter
18-10-11, 09:55 PM
no its been going on for a long time, loads of tests, for the lethality of a projectile
so who suddenly got shot & killed by some noggin with an air gun??? did i miss a news story somewhere???
Some kid sparked a massive man hunt a few weeks ago as he was seen walking about with a rep M16 paintball rifle lol that could have something to do with it lol
then they should make sports bikes a firearm too
so does this mean air guns are going to be banned for wants of a better word
that would piss quite a few people off.
it would really pisss me off its all that keeps me going atm
General Baxter
18-10-11, 10:20 PM
problem is, its not the gun that kills people,
its the person behind in
But the person behind it doesn't propel its way through someones body, the bullet causes the damage that could be fatal.
bathfart, a loaded gun could sit for 30 years & not kill anyone....
But the person behind it doesn't propel its way through someones body, the bullet causes the damage that could be fatal.
but they make the conscious decision to pull the trigger. thats like saying "i ran over a prize dog, but it was the engine that propelled the car" lol
scott.parker
18-10-11, 11:20 PM
Woh... back up here, are you telling me that now all air pistols/rifles are illegal and theres nothing you can do about it??
OR is it coming in in say Jan 2012? if so I'm off to by some guns...
I think its also because the kind of people who 'play' with paintball/BB guns etc are the 'wrong' sort who are likely to got postal and kill people with real guns...... so its just disconnecting the freaks from their toys lol
scott.parker
19-10-11, 11:48 AM
Umm, not really Stuart, when i was 13 my dad took me along to a gun club he was in, i got to fire an old peace maker 0.22 cal revolver, the instructor said to fire it's first shot with NO ear defenders on, so i could appreciate it's power and the respect you should treat fire arms with etc, and it was so dam loud, it made me slightly dizzy from the peacing rigging it left in my ears, and if you shot a small pistol like that you wont want to be getting a bigger gun to go "on the run" with, as any normal person with an interest in guns WONT be an idiot enough to use one in the wrong place etc..
But that was short lived as the dick head in Dunblane meant all fire arms clubs were shut down full stop..
So me and my dad joined an air rifle club, we use to go allot, but not been in years, have a few rifles between us, and Ive got some soft air BB pistols, but now it looks like you cant even legally use them, as for paint balling, thats just stupid to stop something as controlled and in the right hand's safe and fun as that..
Scott
So even .77 and 2.2's are illegal? :(
so, as most people's experiences of air guns are the ones at the fair with the banana shaped barrels, this is a minority law.....
its a pity that these london 'gangs' can't have american people with jobs as role models...
Umm, not really Stuart, when i was 13 my dad took me along to a gun club he was in, i got to fire an old peace maker 0.22 cal revolver, the instructor said to fire it's first shot with NO ear defenders on, so i could appreciate it's power and the respect you should treat fire arms with etc, and it was so dam loud, it made me slightly dizzy from the peacing rigging it left in my ears, and if you shot a small pistol like that you wont want to be getting a bigger gun to go "on the run" with, as any normal person with an interest in guns WONT be an idiot enough to use one in the wrong place etc..
But that was short lived as the dick head in Dunblane meant all fire arms clubs were shut down full stop..
So me and my dad joined an air rifle club, we use to go allot, but not been in years, have a few rifles between us, and Ive got some soft air BB pistols, but now it looks like you cant even legally use them, as for paint balling, thats just stupid to stop something as controlled and in the right hand's safe and fun as that..
Scott
Scott i have to agree with you mate. Brought up on small holdings with alot of vermin to control and was always taught to have upmost respect for 'guns' air or other wise.
I was also part of a gun club where i shot a muzzle loading .40 pistol and a muzzle loading .38 pistol as well as a number of other .22 and .38 rifles.
Again i got to shoot the .40 pistol outdoors without ear defenders and it was very loud to say the least lol.
I say insted of just banning what they see as a 'leathel' weapon they should start educating people as to the dangers of them from a young age.
Also we could take a page out the USA's book and make them all leagel as there seems to be less gun crime over there when it is all legal then over here when you can only get a pistol on the black market ect.
When you live in the country you need a air rifle at least to control rats, pigouns(sp), crows and such its just not practical to make these illegal
Also we could take a page out the USA's book and make them all leagel as there seems to be less gun crime over there when it is all legal then over here when you can only get a pistol on the black market ect.
When you live in the country you need a air rifle at least to control rats, pigouns(sp), crows and such its just not practical to make these illegal
you have never spouted such crap as in the above statement...
uk gun murders per year, average about a couple of hundred, whereas in america its more like 20000.......
my wifes uncle from long island actually asked me what gun crime was like in the uk, and was astounded by the figures
if a gang member from south LA gets put on death row (where they usually don't actually get killed off) he will live longer than if he doesn't get imprisonned...
they only want the guns to be licenced & registered.... as long as you comply and have a decent locked storage box, then thats great...
if you own a weapon that gets stolen & is used in a robbery, then you get into really big trouble..i know someone who might get jail time for it..
before you ask, i'm a country person born & bred, i follow the hunt, i don't shoot pheasants etc, cos i don't get any pleasure from it, either from the kill, or the taste of the meat, but i don't stop anyone from doing it.
ok mowgli fair point on the US thing but they are gonna make air weapons illegal if i have followed this thread right?
this will be to combat gang crime in inner city areas... it is not intended to stop someone popping a few pigeons/squirrels etc, or to stop baxter shooting fraggles...
I'm sure they mean you need a license to hold an air weapon.... no problem for those who arent wrong uns...... a dire mess for Baxter and the likes :p
Most top end paintball markers are only 300fps, so still completely legal to own with no license.
on my gun club wall it has a simple thing writen.
if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
intresting watching police with guns for the first time.. intresting bieng a very apropriate word lol
TeddyThom
19-10-11, 07:39 PM
uk gun murders per year, average about a couple of hundred, whereas in america its more like 20000.......
But the amount of people that live in america... IE population count etc... Ratio wise it's probably about the same...
Also the general question is, are air rifles goin to be banned?? The current legal limit is 12 foot lbs... Does this mean then that that will be classed as a lethal weapon??
Same as a catapault (sp?) they are now classed as rubber guns and as such can't screw around with them like I used to :/
Education is the key.
tedward, you should know better than to try to prove me wrong.....
usa 312 million
uk 62 million
so 5 times the population should make it about 1000 deaths in the states compared the the uk. so its 20 times more than the population difference
TeddyThom
19-10-11, 09:06 PM
lol mike, in all seriousness though I was only guesstimating so not really trying to prove anyone wrong
The first time i went to florida, wifeys cousin was going out with some stoopid white bloke, he offered to give me a ride in his mustang, which was ok....he thought i was from new england, i explained that i was from the old one... Then for no reason, he showed me his rather large handgun... I asked him why he had it, and he couldn't answer me.. Oh, it was in the gloveboot..& loaded.
TeddyThom
19-10-11, 09:14 PM
If you can have it, why not??
Jackroadkill
19-10-11, 09:15 PM
Hang on - I'm a member of several shooting forums and have been shooting various types of firearm for the last twenty years, and although I'm aware of the inquiry into the Cumbria murders and the prospective review of the firearms licensing system, I can honestly say that, as of this moment, legal-limit air guns, airsoft guns and paintball markers, bows and crossbows are all legal to own without any form of license unless you are legally barred from owning or purchasing one.
ACPO don't have the right to change the law - they can petition the governmnet to change the law but they have no legal authority to do this themselves.
I'd like to know (confidentially if necessary) where the OP got his information from, not because I don't believe him - far from it - but because it could concieveably affect my livlihood if / when it comes to pass.
I wouldn't be sorry to see all air rifles go on ticket, really, but it has to be said that the vast majority of crimes committed with air guns are not committed by regular members of the shooting fraternity, but usually by youths who are having "a laugh", shooting cats etc.
This (if it is really going to happen) will be another case of the legitimate shooter being punished for the crimes of others, and more to the point others who still won't give a damn about whether they have an air rifle / airsoft replica legally or illegally.
Hang on - I'm a member of several shooting forums and have been shooting various types of firearm for the last twenty years, and although I'm aware of the inquiry into the Cumbria murders and the prospective review of the firearms licensing system, I can honestly say that, as of this moment, legal-limit air guns, airsoft guns and paintball markers, bows and crossbows are all legal to own without any form of license unless you are legally barred from owning or purchasing one.
ACPO don't have the right to change the law - they can petition the governmnet to change the law but they have no legal authority to do this themselves.
I'd like to know (confidentially if necessary) where the OP got his information from, not because I don't believe him - far from it - but because it could concieveably affect my livlihood if / when it comes to pass.
I wouldn't be sorry to see all air rifles go on ticket, really, but it has to be said that the vast majority of crimes committed with air guns are not committed by regular members of the shooting fraternity, but usually by youths who are having "a laugh", shooting cats etc.
This (if it is really going to happen) will be another case of the legitimate shooter being punished for the crimes of others, and more to the point others who still won't give a damn about whether they have an air rifle / airsoft replica legally or illegally.
I think youve completely failed to read the OP contents....
ANYTHING OVER 370fps will allegedly be deemed "illegal" unless youve got a license to own such firearms. If your job relys on such equipment & you can prove it etc then being granted a section 5 firearms license shouldnt be an issue at all.
BUT, the original info is neither here nor there anyway, as theres been talk of it for over ten years now & nothings changed at all.
TeddyThom
19-10-11, 09:50 PM
I think youve completely failed to read the OP contents....
ANYTHING OVER 370fps will allegedly be deemed "illegal" unless youve got a license to own such firearms. If your job relys on such equipment & you can prove it etc then being granted a section 5 firearms license shouldnt be an issue at all.
BUT, the original info is neither here nor there anyway, as theres been talk of it for over ten years now & nothings changed at all.
Effectively then t'is all interwebz facts and totally troofs.
Those who own air rifles etc will be fine for now then...
as far as i know you cant be granted a section 5 unles you are a dealer in fire arms, i know when they bought in the laws about brococks that you could keep them on your fac, but others could not handle/shoot them and if you want to despose of them you have to hand them in to the police!
i asked our fac officer and he knows nothing of this at the moment.
there are white papers coming out every week, lucky this government dont wanna ban everything.
on a diffrent note is there a part of this forum to introduce yourself lol :d
i asked our fac officer and he knows nothing of this at the moment.
Proof is in the pudding so they say.
If, IF anything under 370fps became illegal, that would deem nearly every single paintball gun, air rifle, gas powered bb gun etc an hactual illegal firearm. Now, lets say a modest 5% of the UK's 61.8m people own such device.. thats a shade over 3m weapons goin go one each! For starters Ive got 3, my brother has 4 paintball markers, mate of mine has 2 etc etc blah blah yadda yadda.
How anyone is going to collate, catalouge & then bring to justice that amount of people is beyond me.
Ergo, a bit of initiative cries a mass amount of bs of any such law.
Jackroadkill
19-10-11, 10:07 PM
I think youve completely failed to read the OP contents....
ANYTHING OVER 370fps will allegedly be deemed "illegal" unless youve got a license to own such firearms. If your job relys on such equipment & you can prove it etc then being granted a section 5 firearms license shouldnt be an issue at all.
BUT, the original info is neither here nor there anyway, as theres been talk of it for over ten years now & nothings changed at all.
No, haven't failed to read it. The thing is, you don't just get a license to own firearms of one particular section or another; rather you get "slots" that are specific to one gun - as in my FAC states that I can own a single .22lr rifle, a single .17hmr rifle, a single. 22 FAC air rife (over 12 fpe) and moderators for all three. A shotgun certificate, however, grants you the permission to own as many shotguns of any calibre as you can physically ram into a cabinet (provided that they are'nt Section 1 or 5 firearms as defined by law).
What concerns me is that I would have to add ( at a cost, I might add) three additional slots for my air rifles and pistol, and a further two for the moderators for the rifles if this happened. I don't want to be forced into having more guns on my ticket than I have to because of a small element of society who are nothing to do with me or with legal shooting in general, which is what is being inferred in the OP - hence my comment about the law-abiding shooter suffering as a result of a few idiots.
As such, the vast majority of people who currently own and shoot an airgun have no license, because one is not needed; if they all had to apply retrospectively for an FAC there would be a huge pressure placed on an already overburdened firearms licensing system.
the law-abiding shooter suffering as a result of a few idiots.
yep agree with that.
As such, the vast majority of people who currently own and shoot an airgun have no license, because one is not needed; if they all had to apply retrospectively for an FAC there would be a huge pressure placed on an already overburdened firearms licensing system.
this man talks sense
TeddyThom
19-10-11, 10:34 PM
initiative
+ Government = Myth
As such, the vast majority of people who currently own and shoot an airgun have no license, because one is not needed; if they all had to apply retrospectively for an FAC there would be a huge pressure placed on an already overburdened firearms licensing system.
Sense at last.
Jackroadkill
19-10-11, 10:46 PM
this man talks sense
Sense at last.
Thanks lads.
NovaLad
10-11-11, 04:48 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned but basicly the bread and butter of firearms is that it includes anything from the following... LETHAL, BARRELLED, WEAPON... This is of any discription from which any shot, bullet or missile can be discharged.
So really it covers everything lol.
It's pretty much down to the discretion of an officer either reg or firearms trained to choose if it needs seizing.
EDIT -
Oh and it comes under Section 16a of the Firearms Act if you use any of the above to cause fear or violence to another person.
Can you imagine all the kids that could be locked up right now lol.
General Baxter
10-11-11, 05:29 PM
i wonder how fast i can fire the wrapper off a maccys straw lol
TeddyThom
10-11-11, 06:40 PM
i wonder how fast i can fire the wrapper off a maccys straw lol
Or the plastic one off a BK straw?? lol
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