View Full Version : New MOT stuff in 2012, seen it on the internets so it must be true
Was pointed out this (http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33081&p=196269&hilit=hid#p196269) earlier (I don't usually keep up on whats going down in the world of Volvo 480's you see lol)
Whilst I'm aware VOSA have been warbling on for a while about making amendments to the MOT, thats the first time I've seen proposed (?) additional wording for the MOT manual. Problem is, doing a bit of googling, although it seems that amost every website out there has recycled the same info, they all say "saw this on another forum" so there's no actual links or presentation of original info from VOSA.
So - is this actually true? I mean like, actually from VOSA? I don't care if you saw this on another forum, as it seems world +dog has, I'm after horses-mouth VOSA stuff.
FTR I've seen the mailing from them about the MOT where they mentioned plans for ECU's and HIDs as part of the MOT, but that was listed as 'maybe, in future, if we can be bothered' and not specific lol
If there's no warning light on, how they going to test a airbag lol
Friend who is a tester said to me the other day there's some new bits coming in
Was mainly on about VW transporters and such like having van rated wheels, not TT copy alloys and the like
If there's no warning light on, how they going to test a airbag lol
I did wonder that. "Sorry Mr Smith, your car has failed the MOT as the airbag didn't deploy when our tester rammed it head on into a wall at 90mph." lol
Whilst nosing through some of the VOSA propaganda magazines, I did spot a bit in there which mentioned 'drivers seat adjustment' as a testable item. Can't find any more info on that though, but I'm surprised the internet hasn't noticed that as it could potentially be problems for those with fixed bucket seats.
I have texterized Craig anyway, I await his VOSA-hating comments in this thread soon. lol
scott.parker
23-09-11, 10:17 AM
Humm, just looked at that link, and I'm sure if they try to implement them rules/laws there would be a fair few company's trying to sue for compensation, as surly that would make some firms/manufactures of these after market parts/products (like ECU remaps/chips etc) totally useless, and would make there business illegal and mean that they would fold under, or have to shut up shop etc??
Can you imagine all the redundant stock of fix bucket seats? this would send all them manufactures in to going under also, I'm sorry but these rules and regs would be so detrimental to the global economy that I'm sure a European court would over throw the ideas, as if i can come to this conclusion so could they! lol
Scott
MattBrown
23-09-11, 11:46 AM
One thing people are forgetting, you cant backdate a rule.
So, for example emmisons, the law applies from when the vehicle was manufactured.
Same as HIDS, if they where legal when the where fitted, then theyre still legal now.
They cant suddenly go along for example, and say my dads old ducati is too loud (Loudest ever production bike) because in 1978 when it was built, that was totally acceptable.
IMO banning HIDS is a bad idea, but also a good one, loads of local nobbers have them in old faded headlights, adjusted to the sky, and are just dangerous.
http://www.europe.org.uk/europa/view/-/id/1943/
scott.parker
23-09-11, 12:22 PM
http://www.europe.org.uk/europa/view/-/id/1943/
Sorry, what now?
Dunno, just googled something I saw in that thread and that came up. Looked important. No idea.
Hello :)
IMHO there is no way in hell (justifiably) the ECU calibration can be tested properly to see if its been tampered with. Many reasons to be listed:
1) Every MOT on an ECU controlled car would have to run the NEDC, and have 100% calibrated test kit to measure the co2 and power.... This ALONE would add an hour to the MOT + costs of paying the kit off.
2) IF the MOT was to simply check that some checksum was the correct value from the manufacturer then iffy MOT'ers would simply sell on the info to the remapping douchebags.
3) Some manufactures have 'iffy' power declarations and also ropey sign off on emissions so any change (for the better or worse) at service will ruin the MOT chances.
I'm sure I could rant on with reason after reason after reason as to how un enforceable that particular test would be but its getting boring now lol
I reckon someone has just chucked it up for internet folk lore, and that particular forum someone has gone to extra effort to make it look official and officially worded. Give it a few months and it will be on Snopes as busted lol
infact, from the linked DFT site
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2048%20-%20Oct%202010.pdf
Page 8/9
"Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations."
WIN
Saloony
23-09-11, 01:50 PM
infact, from the linked DFT site
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2048%20-%20Oct%202010.pdf
Page 8/9
"Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations."
WIN
Thank you that man, all this latest bullsh1t is years away. It all gets broken down too, cost to the motorist and cost to the boys that undertake mots. And typical media scare tatics and cos it get filtered round it get further refined to bullsh1t you lot believe. Ignore it.
With HIDs, once again, you cannot fail them unless its messing with the beam image... end of. And being that most mot'ers are dim sh1ts thats had there head in books since been sprung from there mothers they wont even understand how a HID switches on and charges up, that concept wont compute with them. They'll see it as a normal working light with pattern..... and the biggest point to make things have to be dismantled to find said things...... as a tester you are not allowed to dismantle in anyway shape or form.
scott.parker
23-09-11, 01:54 PM
Hang on, Ive just thought of another thing, FIXED seat's, what is in a VX220 or similar car??
OEM stuff thats been type approved is exempt from any gaylord testing.
take the Clio 172 cup with NO ABS.... there is explicit exemption for that.
scott.parker
23-09-11, 02:11 PM
TBH I'm not fussed, as i know my local garage where i take my car will pass it, and then IF any **** law's come in i will sell the fecker as a rally car, as Ive already been offered over 4k for it for that, but I'm going to give it one more year till i re think it going..
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2051%20-%20Sep%202011.pdf
Page 7.
January is a visual inspection "You appeared to have not unscrewed the bulb from that illuminated warning light, fail"
What it describes as levels 2 and 3, checking fault codes and checking performance parameters on the ECU they don't seem to have a way to test yet.
What it describes as levels 2 and 3, checking fault codes and checking performance parameters on the ECU they don't seem to have a way to test yet.
Because its nearly impossible* for every MOT station to be kitted out to read the exact contents of every ECU in the UK and detect if its not an OEM supplied one etc etc....
*on a cost + time (which is cost) basis.
Saloony
23-09-11, 05:50 PM
What it boils down to is emissions, they're worried that in such cases that the light is on or has had a remap it effects the emissions. But 9/10 the light being on or it being remapped still holds the correct emission data for it to pass.... to be hosest an emissions test is bollox, its not real world driving, its holding at different idle speeds under no load from nature (weather/gravity) or heavy accelerating or Mr Jones who cant give up the pies.... its all false.
IMO banning HIDS is a bad idea, but also a good one, loads of local nobbers have them in old faded headlights, adjusted to the sky, and are just dangerous.
Agreed; but then if the beam alignment is all to pot then they should fail an MOT.
Bathfart, I've read the appropriate EU regs for HIDs all the way through. If the ECU ones etc are just as exciting, I may pass lol
infact, from the linked DFT sitehttp://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2048%20-%20Oct%202010.pdf
Page 8/9
"Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations."
WIN
Yep, seen that one and quoted it to other people previously regarding HIDs. However, in a newsletter (http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2050%20-%20May%202011.pdf), they have listed proposed changes - including checking if auto levellers and headlamp washers are fitted with HIDs, cat missing, battery and wiring, etc. Be interesting to see exactly how they plan to implement all this checking lol
CAT testing is rather easy lol
Smash the internals out? lol
emissions will still be to cock though and thats easy to test.
craig green
23-09-11, 10:25 PM
I gather the HID issues are down to the lens of the lamp, a wiper or washer has to be fitted.
Hopefully all the daytime HID brigade should disappear over time. LOL
Jim Mcrae
24-09-11, 10:07 AM
Meh, a place down the road for me has always seemed to pass my suspect novas
I gather the HID issues are down to the lens of the lamp, a wiper or washer has to be fitted.
Washers are required with HIDs according to the EU regs, levellers are required depending on the beam pattern (but that goes for halogens too). Beam pattern is still part of the test for all lamps.
This was posted on CCUK, again probably recycled from another source, but still:
Tonight I attended what is known as an MOT seminar, basically the head honchos from VOSA go to each area, and talk about the MOT scheme, including changes to the test.
As I said in the thread about the new EU directive, as soon as I knew what was changing in the MOT test I would post it up. These changes are to be brought into the test on 1st January 2012, not before. So here goes...
Steering lock operation - Steering locks not engaging when the ignition key is removed will fail.
Engine warning lamps, brake fluid warning lamps, ESP lamps, EPB lamps illumination - ANY of the above illuminated indicating a fault will fail.TPMS (Tyre pressure monitoring systems) warning lamps - Again, if illuminated indicating a fault, will fail.Airbag/SRS lamp illumination - If this warning lamp is illuminated it will fail.
HID Headlamps - Now, a little grey area here. They will be included in the new test, and will fail if they prove to be outside of the specified conditions... but the conditions and reasons for rejections haven't been written/decided yet, so sit tight.
Wiring - Any wiring (loomed or otherwise) that is damaged, or fitted in such a way that could cause damage to said wiring, or other systems will fail.
Engine mountings - Engine mountings will be a part of the test. incorrect mounting, corrosion in a prescribed area etc will fail.
PAS (Power assisted steering) fluid level will be tested.
Rear doors must open in the new test. Previously (and currently), if the tester feels he can access the testable items in the rear (seatbelts, prescribed areas etc) without needing the doors open, they don't need to open. This will now be a failure.
13 pin towbar sockets - tested for correct operation using a plug in testing tool.
Inappropriate modifications or repairs - The wording on this is quite vague at the moment, but if a major component has been modified, and that modification/repair makes the vehicle dangerous or seriously weakens the original component, expect it to fail.
ANY ball joint dust cover - The small rubber boots over ball joints must be intact and free or splits, tears or holes, or it fails.
All CVJ gaiters will be tested - Currently, only the front outer] CVJ gaiters are tested. This new rule extends it to inner and outer, front and rear.
A catalytic converter missing WILL be a reason for failure, regardless of whether or not the emissions limits are met.
Fuel pipe chaffing or damage - Currently they only fail when they are leaking, this rule means that any chaffing or rubbing causing damage will fail.
The braking imbalance limit is lowered to 30% across all axles.
Vehicles built post July 2010 will have to have at least 58% braking efficiency to pass (currently it's 50% for a dual circuit braking system)
Insecure batteries will become a failure
The main beam warning lamp must illuminate with the main beam lamps
All light switches must operate the corresponding lights immediately. No tapping, or wiggling to make it work!
Remember, these changes will all be brought into testing starting from the 1st January 2012. The exact wording of each failure has yet to be released, but the above list is what was presented to us earlier this evening. I've posted all I know currently, so unfortunately I can't help with any questions ....
I assume the bit about catalytic converter missing will be depending on if the car is supposed to have one, otherwise all Novas bar late spec untouched ones will fail lol
Auto levelers arent needed if the "boot" cant take more than 50Kg ;)
Auto levelers arent needed if the "boot" cant take more than 50Kg ;)
Pretty sure most Nova boots would fall through at 50kg, since most are not fully attached at the rear lol
i thought they failed for battery insecure anyway?
Not at the moment.
Stu, levelling devices (manual; auto ones required with AFS) are needed if the headlights have a beam pattern at a particular height according to EU regs
i thought they failed for battery insecure anyway?
it's 3 points and a hefty fine if spotted by a copper at the road side, but it's fine to pass an MOT like that
Not at the moment.
Stu, levelling devices (manual; auto ones required with AFS) are needed if the headlights have a beam pattern at a particular height according to EU regs
Interesting..... no autolevelers in the new Pagani and thats rocking HID's ;) Its got washers but not levelers, was told they werent needed because the load capabilities didnt warrant adjusters.
I guess they must have headlights that pretty much point at the floor then lol
Surely the things like the cat being present can only be enforced on cars that were produced with them? and what about things like my dads landrover that was a petrol with no cat (i think) that now has a diesel out of a newer landrover fitted with a cat, but he never put it on. surely that would be a fail?
most people who repair written off cars just take the airbag light bulb out, so the test would simply be that the light comes on when the igntion is first clicked then goes out when car is turned over.
most people who repair written off cars just take the airbag light bulb out, so the test would simply be that the light comes on when the igntion is first clicked then goes out when car is turned over.
I'll start making Airbag light defeat devices then lol £10 a go for 50pence of bits :)
most people who repair written off cars just take the airbag light bulb out, so the test would simply be that the light comes on when the igntion is first clicked then goes out when car is turned over.
Which would require a list of all warning lights fitted to every vehicle ever sold in the UK, one for each model/spec level, including any allowance for changeover years or optional extras for any cars that had optional electric systems/airbags etc.
Which would require a list of all warning lights fitted to every vehicle ever sold in the UK, one for each model/spec level, including any allowance for changeover years or optional extras for any cars that had optional electric systems/airbags etc.
That's not the case for abs lights which are an mot fail!
That's not the case for abs lights which are an mot fail!
How do you know it's got an ABS light if you take the bulb out exactly?
How do you know it's got an ABS light if you take the bulb out exactly?
abs lights have a startup telltale, well, they do on trucks..
and as for the airbags on repaired writeoffs. i know a bloke, who is based in hinckley, that has a thriving business in dealing in salvaged airbags, people who dismantle writeoffs sell the good ones to him, he checks them over & then sells them on to repairers. he used to work at MIRA, and i think he was involved in the design of them in the first place..
The startup telltale is normally the bulb lighting on ignition, which it won't do if you take the bulb out...
A tester could look under the bonnet for an ABS module if in doubt. Airbag would be pretty easy to see as well, as it would be in front of him when he gets in lol
well all cars fitted with airbags have an airbag light, so if there is a airbag in the car and no light then its been bodged! i know mot testers are thick as two short planks but even they can manage that little gem!
is an airbag light 'on' all the time a fail now?
Any warning lights etc is a fail.
Any warning lights etc is a fail.
Nope - according to the h'actual new regulations , only illumination/operation of malfunction lights for:
- Steering (EPAS)
- Stability Control (ESC)
- Brakes (electronic parking, fluid level, ABS)
- Tyre Pressue (TPMS)
- Airbag (SRS)
...are testable items. Wording of failure is if the light is "inoperative" or "indicating a malfunction" = fail. Also, if ABS or ESC warning light "does not follow the correct sequence of operation" = fail.
So my oil level warning light that is constantly on (duff level sensor lol) is NOT a fail.
[edit again] Incidentally, there's nothing in the new (2012) regulations about ECU's.
[edit again again] ...and HIDs are catered for - and now legitimately MOT-passable, even retro-fit ones :d
Oh and removing the cat is now a fail if the car had one from factory lol
removing the cat would always have been a fail if the car/engine flow chart required one.... unless you were furking lucky and had a very duff tester lol
I'm talking about physically though - previously, assuming that IF you could lean the fueling out enough to pass without a cat, then it was all good. But now it directly states if the cat has been removed then poot poot, last baording call for the failboat!
Funny thing is, I reckon the emissions on my Celica would look exactly like those from Hayley's Colt when I next MOT it. What are the chances! lol
i have seen many a donor car on many a emmsions test on mot lol
As per Ben's post. i know mot testers who know fcuk all about cars. They just do it for a "job". One in particular isn't interested unless you take him some sort of pre 1970's landrover. he failed my mates car on emissions (pug) i asked him what exactly and he said, "dunno it's failed" lol
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