Total Closure

[Graeme]

Has anyone wired one of these successfully to a Nova, Ive bought a two window version of Falcon security, Clicky (http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/falcon-window-closure-rollup-module-p-49.html), and for the life of me cannot get my head round it, I know its not easy due to the fact that the Nova wiring is only live when the ignition is on and also the switch is a double function, i.e. making two connections at the same time, from the wiring diagram supplied I have followed the last version including the five pin relay but still have no joy

Any help from any budding auto-electricians will be massively appreciated before it goes in the bin and its twenty quid down the pan

[Iain]

The EW and CL loom has a perm live for the CL and an ign live for the EW, you could pull the ign live (black wire) and wire it into a perm live. That might make things easier? (The switches would work with the ign off but that's no biggie is it?)

[Graeme]

The only real down side to that would be they were perminantly illuminated but can't see it draining the battery, tbh the problem is more the double function switch I think

[MK999]

I tried doing this as an auxillary function on an alarm, I.E wind the windows up on the remote, and had a nightmare with it... the only way to do it is to wire the switches round the other way (I think as standard they are 12v to both sides of the motor, and they switch one side to earth to operate, while breaking the 12v so it doesn't short. You need earth on both sides and making 12v while breaking the earth so it doesn't short iirc) and also run them through relays, so that the switch fires the relay, and the alarm fires the relay, basically having 2 switches (manual and the earth signal from alarm) firing the same circuit.

[Graeme]

I thought it was going to be that complicated

[MK999]

I can't take credit for working it out either, I PM'd Windfreek as he's a bit of an electronics genius, and that was his 2nd guess at how to do it... lol

[Graeme]

Thanks anyway mate, it looks wheely bin bound, I thought it'd need about another four relays to work, cba now

[MK999]

I ended up giving up on mine as well tbh, not worth the hassle/extra things to break just to have posh ghost windows lol

[Graeme]

After a bit of further invesigation to get it to work I have to make two circuits and break another two so looks like I'll use a 4pdt relay fed of the white wire on my ai606, which has a time out put and can be set on arming or optional output

[MK999]

You need to run relays as the actual window circuit as I describe though, if you try and retain all original wiring and just splice in a relay to wind the windows up, it will short out.

[Jon_nova1]

i think the main problem you'll have is theres no signal when the window is closed, i'd look out for a newer vauxhall that has a signal for when the window is closed, i.e one that clicks off when the window closes rather than the motor carry on like it does on the nova

[Graeme]

I know what you mean Jon but as long as I time the feed for long enough from full open to full closed plus a couple of extra seconds to account for drag etc then surely its only the same as holding the switch after the window has shut, or do you mean auto signal as in something getting trapped

[windfreek]

I know its a bit late, you could always get some micro switches fitted to the motor pivogt arm so when the motor arm reaches the stop bushes it will press the micro switch and break the circuit pre window relay but after the alarm module, bit hard so explain as im on my mobile what with working in a dealership over in the U.S. atm if you still have no joy I'll draw you somthing up when I get home in a few weeks.

[Jack]

I have one of these on the Celica (with a Falcon alarm too). Never got it to work though lol


The only real down side to that would be they were perminantly illuminated but can't see it draining the battery
Thats no problem btw, the cav has constant to the windows and no battery issues there.

[Graeme]

Thanks everyone when I have regained my patients with it I'll have another go

[moffat]

if you can get it to work graeme would you consider doing a how to guide? this is something ive considered for a while but wiring not a strong point

[windfreek]

Back again.....

I did try to post a message before, but as it was so long the forum timed out and lost it all when it was signing back in... so anyway after a man-moment, (with a rant at the pc) i calmly came back to just say, Im now back from the US and wondered if you are about this weekend, if so I can pop up to you to sort it out for you

I had a look at your controllers website/diagram and it will work very simply, with no messing about over multiple relays or messy wires all over the place, in-fact no relays, just one feed from a perm fused live (like the radio memory) and one wire from your toad signal wire will be needed, i think it would be best to fit it under the window switches in the centre console (*if thats where your switches are), then just run the 2 aforementioned wires to that location, all in all i reckon an hour to sort the lot as i cant see there been any complications, Ill bring all the tools with me but alas I may require a brew for the time & services lol

also if you dont already have any, you may want to get some snap-lock connectors from either halfrauds (for twice the price mind) or maplins like these http://www.maplin.co.uk/snap-lock-connectors-43076 to install it

let me know

[MK999]

I just lost all respect for your electrical genius, snaplocks/scotchlocks are the work of satan, awful awful things lol

[windfreek]

whats this..... i had some to loose

lol

[Graeme]

Pm'd

[windfreek]

DONE!

Today Graeme popped down the road to mine and we had a look at the total closure issue, after a bit of checking his closure module it turned out that things would be pretty straight forward, excluding the time messing with the Toad alarm after completing the job in order to program it to close the windows upon a "arm" command, the wiring itself took no more than an hour to do, for those who wish to read a rough how to, please read on, if you dont want to read it, but just see the proof, scroll down to the end of this post.




These instructions are only intended for a Nova, Due to their "At rest" state
(Before starting work, please read all the steps, The following codes/colours I refer to will be the standard Nova loom ones and I will not be held accountable if you don't follow these instructions properly and injure/maim yourself or set fire to your car)

IF IN ANY DOUBT USE A MULTIMETER FIRST
:thumb:



Now as everyone knows that when the ignition is switched on, that both the feeds from each switch go live to the to the motors, and then require a posi feed cut and swapped to negative, If im already starting to loose you then simpily if you remove both window switches from their holder you will see 4 wires on the back of each, the important ones are the two blue ones

Blue
Blue with Red trace
(One only to each switch)

These are the feeds to the motors you will need to cut, now before you go cutting things, its best to double check that it is the right wire, so after you remove the centre console, switches and loom so that it is loose, reconnect the switches and...



1. posistion both windows halfway down
2. turn off the ignition and remove the keys (so there is no power going to the switches/windows)
3. disconnect the two 4pin plugs from both of the window switches to loom (lift up the tab to seperate)
4. make a 2-3 inch fly lead to connect to the yellow or *yellow/red *(dependant on which plug you test) and loop this to the brown of that 4 pin socket, which is Ground
5.with a suitable guage'd 6 foot length of wire, insert one end into the back of the blue or blue/red cable pin (relative to the same socket that you just used for above) on the loom socket and then touch the other end to your posi terminal on the battery

If you have done it right, the window will roll up, if not it will roll down, hence leaving the window in the middle at the start, if it does roll down then the wire you will need to try the other window feed wire which is yellow + yellow/red which is on the furthest pin from the blue ones, but also test this to make sure that it is by swapping the fly lead to blue and the posi feed to yellow.
Note*(the two inner ones are the posi (ignition switched) and ground feeds to the circuit)

Now you have identified which wire needs to go live to roll the windows up and with also leaving an inch or two wire before the connector, cut the identified feed wire in half on the loom side of the 4 pin plugs, do not cut the switch side wires, if you cut it on the switch side,
1. you wont get the switches back in after
2. if you ever need to swap out the switches you will need to rewire it all again
3. there wont be enough spare wire to get it under the console when your done

now you should have 2 wires in half, (hopefully blue ones)
now the next bit may get a little hazy depending on your make and model of window closure unit, the one we used was a two window version of the Falcon security one, this had 2 pairs of wires to feed the circuit,

(Falcon only) these were paired as
Blue & Green (one window motor)
Blue/white & Green/white (the other window motor)

hopefully you can tell from your schematic as to their motor pairings you need, on the falcon diagram there was one from each of the pairs that was shown to go to the motor and one to the switch, these pairs will connect with the wires you cut in an order

EG
the 2 wires cut were blue and blue/red trace

solid blue would be bundled with both the solid blue and solid green from the falcon module

trace wires would also then be bundled accordingly

and as per your units schematics, one of those wires from each pair from the module is only intended to go to the motor, and the other is only to be connected to the switch

now you have found the motor supply from the module, connect that to the wire from its intended bundle and connect it to the blue loom wire that is NOT still connected to the 4 pin plug, then take the switch supply from the controller and connect it to the other half of the blue wire on the 4 pin plug side.

now you have one window hooked up, you may want to check its working, so connect the power to the module as per instructions, and if you have one, hook up the Ignition ACC+ wire to either of the black wires on the back of the 4 pin connector for the switches, re-attach the switch for the side you have just wired up, turn on the ignition and wind that window halfway down again.

now dependant if your alarm is negative or positive signal for the window module, put that wire from the module to any ground or posi feed to start the auto close module.

(fingers crossed that all's well and it goes up!)

...its ok?, now just do what you did with connecting the wires up before and do that again on the other switch set.

Check it again and provided it works, finalize the connections, make them all safe, now you know that the module works go ahead and hook it up to the alarm unit, (If you hook it up to the alarm before any testing chances are if you have a fault, it will be harder to find at this late stage)

now you may have 2 triggers + & - ones, now check your alarm manual to see what signal it provides upon your request/system arm, it may be a pull to ground, or set to live, (usually its to ground), connect that wire up to the modules relevant trigger wire, make the joint safe, wind both windows halfway down, get out and test the alarm side.

That's your lot.

Here's some photos of the joints we did and a video of the unit actually working!

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/windfreek/PNG/c165fa8f.jpg

The crimp connector was already there i must add

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/windfreek/PNG/22e9708b.jpg

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/windfreek/PNG/896e58f0.jpg

VIDEO


http://s1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/windfreek/PNG/?action=view&current=7ac507f3.mp4

[Graeme]

Thanks ever so much for today Andy, I'm glad I retrieved it out of the bin now lol and thanks for testing the thermal cut out with your arm

[windfreek]

yeah no worries at all :)

[brainsnova]

Nice guide windfreek :thumb: this would be excellent in the how to section. I'm sure a mod would do the honours.