View Full Version : C14SE tuning. (one for Phazer!)
Following on from this (lol)
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?176867-Power-from-c14se
Any recommended mods for the c14se? any gains to be had from the c16se cam or go aftermarket? How far can you go with a cam on the standard management?
I've seen a few running c16se management and injectors, worthwhile?
I'm looking at running one in the saloon and would ideally want a reliable 100bhp. what are they standard?
Here's what i'm looking at doing;
Cam,
4 branch with full magnex.
Modified airbox with panel filter.
Now i've also heard there's a weakness in the bottom end, with nuts on the rods. I know some of them came with studs. If i've got nuts on mine can you fit some stronger/aftermarket studs and nuts?
More questions soon! :):thumb:
82bhp standard mate
Arp rod bolts?
82bhp standard mate
Arp rod bolts?
A good friend of mine races stock rods and has informed that some of the c14se engines had studs and nuts on the rods and are notoriously unrelaible. I was wondering if you can get an uprated stud and nut kit? I'm presuming you can't just swap the studs for bolts?
I would imagine you could just swap the studs for bolts, yes. het in touch with ARP though as they may even do uprated stud/nut kits for it.
be wary with cams with standard management. I had an AST1 in my old C14SE running standard management, and it was a nightmare. It wouldn't idle, cut out at junctions, lost no end of power. The C14SE doesn't run an AFM so can't adapt the fuelling to meet the extra air the cam gives you
Thanks lewis. Yeah i was kinda expecting it to not respond well to lairy cams lol Is the c16 cam any different from the c14?
I would imagine the std bottom end will be very similar to the 1600, so it will stand a lot more abuse than you think.. Think 1600 turbo power outputs.. 150 odd hp on a stock bottom end.
Get the head ported, and then fit a decent cam & a 4-1 & you should be knocking on 100hp
just to give you an idea of their potential, Stu's old van was a C14SE, with a full stainless & K&N filter, and iirc made 102bhp on the rollers (DD rollers too, not fisher price ones)
ever thought off twins 40s buddy
A little late to the party lol but....
The comment above about adapting to intake volume is misleading. The C14 runs a map sensor which measures air density funnily enough so you can go a bit more lairy with a cam than engines with an AFM. You don't need to worry about pulsing affecting the AFM.
What I'd do if I was to stay with the C14: Head work, mild-medium cam (don't want to loose low down torque/power), decent exhaust. Next step would be messing with the throttle plate and mappable management, though I'd jump to mappable with throttle bodies.
Havign said all of that, as much as I loved the engine I ripped it out for a 16v lol
i happen to have a c14se for sale too :)
ever thought off twins 40s buddy
want to keep the standard management, just for everyday reliability reasons tbh.
ever thought off twins 40s buddy
want to keep the standard management, just for everyday reliability reasons tbh.
pikey1986
10-09-11, 02:49 PM
funny this thread popped up as im aquiring(sp) an 8v corsa sri at the end of the month, it will be donating its engine for another nova i picked up :)
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?176308-c14se-engine-plus-everything-to-fit
pikey1986
10-09-11, 02:58 PM
im paying less than that for the car :thumb: thanks for the offer
lol np im looking for offers anyway and mines has had all the h/g done etc so ready to drop in
i happen to have a c14se for sale too :)
Thanks but i found one nearer and cheaper :)
Hi everyone, wondering if you could help me.
Replaced my C16e engine for another an its not got any power in the engine. Sounds awesome but just not picking up. any help or tips for tuning?
(DD rollers too, not fisher price ones)
Still fisher price ones imho :p
anyhooooo its just a 1600 engine but with the 1400 bottom end.
Never heard of any small block engines having stud and nut big ends (possibly main caps but they wont be an issue imho). Just sling in some ARP rod bolts if you are planning on keeping it at 7.5K+ daily for long periods lol
NVO series cams are allegedly for Injection engines...... could give them a go, or a catcams beastie :)
Considered a proper boost setup John? ;)
Still fisher price ones imho :p
anyhooooo its just a 1600 engine but with the 1400 bottom end.
Never heard of any small block engines having stud and nut big ends (possibly main caps but they wont be an issue imho). Just sling in some ARP rod bolts if you are planning on keeping it at 7.5K+ daily for long periods lol
NVO series cams are allegedly for Injection engines...... could give them a go, or a catcams beastie :)
Considered a proper boost setup John? ;)
Nah no boost stu, just want about 100bhp and to keep it reliable. yeah apparently some of them did have studs and nuts, will disassemble mine and see what i've got. Nvo = kent yeah? what sort of profile would you think for my mild spec?
more questions.........
Did all c14se engines run a lambda probe?
Should the head bolts have washers under?
Are the c14 and c16 cams the same?
:)
Novasport
11-09-11, 09:32 PM
Did you have your memory banks wiped when you left Vauxhall John? You should know all this off the top of your head lol
Did you have your memory banks wiped when you left Vauxhall John? You should know all this off the top of your head lol
I've been out of the vauxhall game for about 4 years now Rich! i have slept and been drunk many times since then so i have forgotten lots! lol
Novasport
11-09-11, 09:50 PM
Every time you learn something new, it pushes something old out eh? lol
According to EPC the cams are different on C14 & C16SE
Novasport
11-09-11, 09:54 PM
EPC also shows heads are different, there should be washers under the head bolts & only crankshaft/conrod bolts are listed, no studs
Id start with a fresh engine, decat, decent manifold and full exhaust system.
I wouldnt go any further for a daily tbh! Should be a decent 90-95hp. Will be perfectly reliable imo, bullet proof engines.
Did that 102bhp c14se get 102hp on the same rollers my xe nailed 180bhp on? lol
Kent nvo cams are hardly worth it for what they cost. And the map sensors on them dont really like lairy cams, because the map reading wont be steady at low revs/idle. So a "decent" cam aint really going to do much, especially with the standard rev limit.
Yeah they run lambdas, and the c14/16 cams are slightly different.
Did that 102bhp c14se get 102hp on the same rollers my xe nailed 180bhp on? lol
quite possibly, was the bloke who goes to PVS. Though to be fair, I reckon he intentionally sets them up to read high, to make all the people at the show happy lol
Id start with a fresh engine, decat, decent manifold and full exhaust system.
I wouldnt go any further for a daily tbh! Should be a decent 90-95hp. Will be perfectly reliable imo, bullet proof engines.
Did that 102bhp c14se get 102hp on the same rollers my xe nailed 180bhp on? lol
Kent nvo cams are hardly worth it for what they cost. And the map sensors on them dont really like lairy cams, because the map reading wont be steady at low revs/idle. So a "decent" cam aint really going to do much, especially with the standard rev limit.
Yeah they run lambdas, and the c14/16 cams are slightly different.
You can kinda cheat the MAP sensor by adding some tubing and then running an inline carb fuel filter and then more tubing to the sensor, this damps the pusles down a little/hopefully enough for a 'clean' signal.
Pistol Pete
12-09-11, 09:48 PM
Id start with a fresh engine, decat, decent manifold and full exhaust system.
I wouldnt go any further for a daily tbh! Should be a decent 90-95hp. Will be perfectly reliable imo, bullet proof engines.
Did that 102bhp c14se get 102hp on the same rollers my xe nailed 180bhp on? lol
Kent nvo cams are hardly worth it for what they cost. And the map sensors on them dont really like lairy cams, because the map reading wont be steady at low revs/idle. So a "decent" cam aint really going to do much, especially with the standard rev limit.
Yeah they run lambdas, and the c14/16 cams are slightly different.
This is all i had done to mine (i THINK) the head had been breathed on, not sure. Was very nippy for a 1400. Surprised many people. Had a blast around coomb in it. Drove there, gave it death and drove home again!
TBH, if i knew then what i do now i would have stuck with it instead of the XE route.
I look forward to seeing a WIP thread about this John.
PS...will double check on that cable this week for you.
Thanks for the replys chaps.
I have already got a magnex 1.3 sr 3 box system (will need something doing with the tailpipe on the saloon) will get a 1.3 sr 4 branch and add the boss for the 02. (this has got to be in the collector i presume?) My loom is butchered so have sourced a tidy loom, just hope it's compatible with the ecu i have (are they all the same?) If i have enough funds i will have the head ported (any recommendations?) I'm hoping for the magic ton bhp wise.
Stuart the idea of fooling the map sensor sound plausible, will have a go and see what happens. What duration would you say on the cam? vernier pulley?
have stripped my block down tonight to find i have rod bolts (phew!) is it worth doing the rod bearings whilst doing the bolts? Block will get a good wire brush and a lick of paint.
Cheers Pete.
:)
Novasport
12-09-11, 10:32 PM
You will only get a 4-1 manifold and I dont think it will be of that much benefit. The standard manifold looks as though it flows well if it is the twin downpipe version.
Only problem would be linking it up to the Magnex, I think a 14NV downpipe might help
You will only get a 4-1 manifold and I dont think it will be of that much benefit. The standard manifold looks as though it flows well if it is the twin downpipe version.
There was a 4 branch on it, but it's buggered. So will have to source another anyway. :)
Novasport
12-09-11, 10:41 PM
4-2-1 would be the best design but they are impossible to find
Think i'll just stick with the 1.3 four branch, then i know it'll mate to the front pipe. yeah would love a magnex 4-2-1 but the last one i watched on ebay made silly money! lol
Aye, get the lambda probe wacked into the side of the collector. On my old one i used an aftermarket heated sensor, because its so far from the cylinder head....
Aye, get the lambda probe wacked into the side of the collector. On my old one i used an aftermarket heated sensor, because its so far from the cylinder head....
send me a link ad?
I just used a universal sensor off ebay, something like this but i cant remember the exact type i used.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-3-WIRE-UNIVERSAL-LAMBDA-O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-/110723934614?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c7a92996#ht_1447wt_905
Basically just needs 12v and earth, and the other wire is your signal. Best running it off the fuel pump blue/red, so its only being heated when the engines running/pumps running.
Just how needed a heated sensor is im not 100% sure, but im pretty sure std xe ones are heated(3wire plug) because of where they are fitted.
(sorry to drag an old post up) Sooo furthering on from this. I've been thinking about turbo charging, discuss. Cost? what manifold? possible on standard management? how reliable? expected output? :)
Interesting to see what you end up with.
This is interesting, I am currently trying to get a project going, 1.4 sr carb block, 1.6 cavalier head with a kent (don't know which one but idling is still a struggle) cam. Twin webbers (once i can trace/afford the correct jets), F13 close gearbox(if I can get it to work!), 4-1 exhaust manifold and a magnex stainless steel exhaust.
If working and set up properly, what can I expect from this lot?
For reliability it is on the old pieberg until I get it all going.
Oi this is my thread lol
Mny apologies......I now give it back!
Only joking dude lol start a thread in mechanical? :)
Turbo would be interesting, not sure there would be *that* much benefit though. Standard managment would be a no go I should think, it only runs a 1 bar map sensor. I suspect the pikey methods of fuelling would bring the management light on and put it into limp home.
I'd pick up a DTA E48 or similar if you were serious. The 8v is great low down but will it breathe enough for a turbo with a decent output?
Courtenay fitted a 5th injector set when they converted them, not sure if they used them pikey switch or not tho
I reckon your could have 150 bhp out of it no probs
Did they do that on the 'C' engines though? I've only ever seen the 5th injector/vacuum switch on the E16SE engines so not sure. The turbo will make the map sensor go screwy and give odd readings which might cause limp home mode. I've never tried so take my rambling with a pinch lol
150bhp on the 8v would be fun but very expensive if you don't already have the bits. I'd be tempted to throw the small block 1800 in and then maybe turbo that later, bags more return for similar cash.
I've seen MAP sensors 'fecked' about with where you pipe it off the manifold, through a fuel filter and to the sensor. This damps the pressure waves and also sort of reduces what the sensor sees a little.... Problem is thats a massive bodge and would kill the engine in no time.
imho aftermarket management on a turbo engine (or an OEM turbo management that you can tune).
food for thought.... fiat uno turbo engines would probably be a good source of performance parts for a turbo c14se...
food for thought.... fiat uno turbo engines would probably be a good source of performance parts for a turbo c14se...
Isn't the punto carbed? Hmm, might not bother with turbo'ing the c14se, might go 1.8 like you say Mike.
the uno turbo used a version of the le3.1 jetronic....as in the gte type of injection
the uno turbo used a version of the le3.1 jetronic....as in the gte type of injection
really? i never knew that! The mk2 uno? i reckon bits would be hard to get now.
boting on a 1.6 head will drop the compression if you are going to boost it. the 1.4sri cam is the only one not detailed in the haynes, i have a supposedly new cam which ive been meaning to map for years now. i will get round to it
I wouldnt count on a 1.6 head dropping the CR by much... Best measure it :)
I wouldnt count on a 1.6 head dropping the CR by much... Best measure it :)
bin there done that :p from what i remember from doing it it'll drop it by 1. so from say 10:1 to 9:1. not massive but for simply swapping the head its worth it.
you could also do this to a gte head as well which should get it close to 8:1 :d
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/109_0436.jpg
ferk, dropping by 1 point is a shed load of head difference... unless its simply changed with the bore from 1.4 to 1.6 meaning the heads do naff all
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/109_0436.jpg
Honestly right, that was a farking good head lol:eek: all piss takes aside mind, it was really well done!
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