View Full Version : E16SE Turbo
richmister
28-08-11, 10:42 AM
Hi all,
I'm interested in making the conversion in my Nova, and was wondering/asking for a sort of quick guide to converting, i.e whats needed/recommended ect.
I'm only looking to do a low boost conversion for a bit of fun really, but if anyone would like to expand on what would also needed to give it a little bit more (low comp pistions ect.)
Wondered if anyone had any experience and would like to pass on a bit of knowledge :D It already has a chipped ECU, for extra fuel, would this be sufficent?
Cheers, I look forward to your replies/advice :) I have had a lot of experience with good old Vauxhall engines/conversions just never a turbo. :)
Theres a guide to it in the articles section mate
here it is....http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?137752-*INFO*-1600-8v-Turbo-What-I-used
richmister
28-08-11, 10:45 AM
Oh brilliant, cheers! :)
Bit silly of me not looking better. sorry :)
the e16se will need a sandwich plate to lower cr, and as for the ecu, the factory one is actually a circuit board with no 'chip' it will have had a couple of resistors in the ign controller changed to make it rev a bit more. there is a way using a pressure switch & even fitting an extra injector, but it is not the best way but courtenay used to do it, a remappable ecu conversion would be a better bet.
im doing this on my e16se,
heres what il be using
spi exhaust manifold with turbo flange welded to it
t2 or t25 turbo
oil return into sump
oil feed from block
spacer plate
oil filter relocation kit
rising rate fuel regulator
intercooler and pipework
boost trick switch
standard managment
hope this helps
one thing i have overlooked is the emission control valve, it works of vacuum so when you boost the engine its going to hate that lol, I'm thinking I'll need to remove it and blank of the FPR and EGR as they are all linked together then block of the holes on the inlet where all the little vacuum tube plugged in so boost is not lost.
one thing i have overlooked is the emission control valve, it works of vacuum so when you boost the engine its going to hate that lol, I'm thinking I'll need to remove it and blank of the FPR and EGR as they are all linked together then block of the holes on the inlet where all the little vacuum tube plugged in so boost is not lost.
i was told i need to blank the EGR... so this clears things up. cheers mate :thumb:
richmister
28-08-11, 05:45 PM
Brilliant, thanks moffat for the info and the rest for the discussion, I have been reading through several articles on the forum about this conversion kit and it is very tempting to do :)
Cheers for the info, there may be a WIP thread if it goes ahead ;)
matt_vaughan
28-08-11, 07:02 PM
Anyone managed to do it without relocating the Oil filter?
Looking to turbo a 1300 for hillclimbing/sprints and trackdays for next year, and we're on a tight budget. Would rather spend the ~£100 on something else rather than relocating the oil filter.
The obvious option would be having the turbo above the exhaust ports, however that's extra weight higher up, and wont help considering it's so far forward.
matt_vaughan
28-08-11, 08:55 PM
the factory one is actually a circuit board with no 'chip' it will have had a couple of resistors in the ign controller changed to make it rev a bit more.
Whats the crack with that mowgli? Is it easy to do and has any benefit to Turbo engine? Is this the "Group N" modification? Bit of a bodge?
i have very limited info that is 100% reliable on jetronic ecu's, but basically, the jetronic is an analogue circuit, it has no map like a newer ecu. it relies on input parameters from things like the afm, dizzy, throttle pot & cts then via pre calibrated resistors, it produces the injector & dizzy signals. so by changing the signals with different resistors, you alter the outputs.
you used to be able to get 'power tuning' boxes, which were simply a box with 5 or 6 different variable resistors to tweek to make more power.
matt_vaughan
28-08-11, 11:55 PM
Right I've had a look into it, and it seems that they are some sort of resistor wired into the engine's temperature sensor between the sensor and the management. The resistor alters the signal making the "ECU" think that the engine is running cooler than it actually is, making the engine dump more fuel in basically.
It's what those "+30BHP ebay mods" do.
It's quite topical that I'm posting this here, as (i know its pikey) but it could be used in some way to assist in a turbo setup.
Lets imagine that, as is a problem when running a turbo on standard management, if an engine is running lean under boost, using a resistor in this way COULD have some effect on this problem.
I will research some more into it, but if anyone could post any problems you can foresee from using this then please lets put some ideas into the pot. I think it's pretty obvious to say that the main problem would be rich running when not on boost, so perhaps some way of activating this resistor when the boost is detected using some sort of pressure sensitive switch may be the answer.
However, I am NOT saying this is not a pikey and, essentially, a bodge, but lets face it, as has been proven a few times on here, bodges can work very well and can last longer than we all expect.
If you run proper aftermarket management like dta omex etc you'll get more power, it's that simple,
The trick switch only puts the ecu into cold start mode,
matt_vaughan
29-08-11, 01:14 AM
I fully understand that Bazil, its always the best option, without a doubt.
There are, however, always people asking about ways they can run low levels of boost (8-10 psi)pressure safely on standard management.
im running mine on standard managment, trying to do it the same way as courtenay did theres.
So all in a bodge :(
mine?
if its the same way that courtenays did it then IMHO yes its a bodge.
doesn't the pressure switch simply trigger a full throttle signal ??
interesting factoid....uno turbos had a variant of the l3.1 jetronic ecu....
Right I've had a look into it, and it seems that they are some sort of resistor wired into the engine's temperature sensor between the sensor and the management. The resistor alters the signal making the "ECU" think that the engine is running cooler than it actually is, making the engine dump more fuel in basically.
It's what those "+30BHP ebay mods" do.
It's quite topical that I'm posting this here, as (i know its pikey) but it could be used in some way to assist in a turbo setup.
Lets imagine that, as is a problem when running a turbo on standard management, if an engine is running lean under boost, using a resistor in this way COULD have some effect on this problem.
I will research some more into it, but if anyone could post any problems you can foresee from using this then please lets put some ideas into the pot. I think it's pretty obvious to say that the main problem would be rich running when not on boost, so perhaps some way of activating this resistor when the boost is detected using some sort of pressure sensitive switch may be the answer.
However, I am NOT saying this is not a pikey and, essentially, a bodge, but lets face it, as has been proven a few times on here, bodges can work very well and can last longer than we all expect.
tuning the jetronic ecu is a lot more involved than an eBay special....there are quite a few different parameters that can be tweaked.. like for example, there is a 'low' spot on the power curve that matches exactly with 75mph in top.. this is not a fault, it was done to increase the mpg figure on official tests... i've put a lot of time into searching the stuff out, there is a linky to a bloke who was playing around with peugeot 205 gti's (also a jetronic ecu) that explains it quite well, i'll dig it out.
here it is
http://www.205gti.com/bosch/mods.htm
matt_vaughan
29-08-11, 05:17 PM
From his page, which is very informative and quite easy to follow, its apparent that the rev limit is determined by R106 resistor. He states that changing this resistor for one that is smaller (assuming this means less resistance?) increases rev limit.
Im assuming that this is the Group N modification, or part of it, that was made to ECUs in the Group N days?
smaller does mean less resistance. Could put a pot in to be able to adjust the rev limit with ease :)
matt_vaughan
30-08-11, 12:33 AM
smaller does mean less resistance. Could put a pot in to be able to adjust the rev limit with ease :)
Of course. That never occured to me.
Mowgli, have you discovered a way in which the ECU could be controlled at a certain point to deliver longer? injection pulses to aid in boost-friendly fuelling? Or are we talking marginal differences that wont help that cause?
Mowgli that link means fook all to me lol
Which is why I shall pay someone else to do the things I'm not able to understand lol
The fueling side of this whole turbo E16 setup is where it can go horribly wrong, I do have a good few spare ecu's and AFM's so I think I'll pull one apart to see if I can understand anything better.
matt_vaughan
30-08-11, 08:14 AM
A Pot in used in conjunction with a Wideband Lambda may give you the ability to setup the fuelling correctly, or closer than normal.
a pot in used in conjunction with a wideband lambda may give you the ability to setup the fuelling correctly, or closer than normal.
all fine & dandy, except the e16se has no facility for a lambda sensor..... The c16se does though......
He means (I think) fit a wideband and then do the tuning yourself.... although isnt the PCM in the MAF setup so 'live' tuning is a slag?
Of course. That never occured to me.
Mowgli, have you discovered a way in which the ECU could be controlled at a certain point to deliver longer? injection pulses to aid in boost-friendly fuelling? Or are we talking marginal differences that wont help that cause?
when you consider the L3.1 jetronic was designed by bosch as a production ready add on modification, and the fact that there are cars like the uno turbo that used it, there must be a way of doing it, but i'd imagine trying to get the info out of bosch, or a decent bosch dealer might be a touch difficult.
Oh you are such a git Mike, I now want to get hold of a GTE and have a play with the ECU
i'll take that as a compliment.......
i can lend you a spare ecu i have for examination, but thats about it.....
i have a 18se afm/ecu, it looks an awful lot like the e16se one, but the flap is bigger... i'm going to take it apart & see what is different as well
*snigger* bigger flap */snigger*
it is a compliment till the wife see's a nova turn up on the drive lol
Would need it to be on a running engine to see what's what in terms of signals and all that jizz. Wonder if anyone local has a GTE that needs fettling with.
Mowgli does it matter what ignition controller you have?
Is this all done from the AFM ?
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