View Full Version : Bike throttle bodies standard management
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 07:41 PM
Hi
Thinking of putting bike bodies on my c20xe but keeping standard management! I have seen this done before and the setup made +25-30bhp! Anyone got any ideas on this? How to? Lol!
Cheers
I can't see how you could do it unless you made some kind of big pelnum as you would need to run the air fuel meter! and then you would still have a restriction..
You would need to drill the injector ports out to fit the XE injectors too.. and tbh I can't see it making more than 5 bhp over standard.. Now on something like a C14se it might work as they have no amm.
Have been thinking about this myself but can't see to much benefit from standard management as it will still need to use the afm and there fore a suitable induction pipe which in my opinion defeats the purpose goin from four individual throttle bodys back to the standard bore afm stand alone would be your best bet and most beneficial
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 07:58 PM
Yeah realise aftermarket ecu would be best! Id use the air flow meter by making a large plenum like the diablis bodies have! With a free flowing exhaust you would get a nice gain! Injectors would b standard blues left in origional location and bike injector holes tigged up!
Why not use a V6 amm, there much bigger and iirc they have the same fitting plug.
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 09:01 PM
V6 afm might not work with the ecu! If not i could take the afm element out and relocate it in a larger tube! Anyone know which bike bodies are best for the c20xe? Gsxr?
The element might not work in a larger pipe as it's calibrated to work in it's own one and ya should pick up a set for handy money some bike breakers would have loads likes of dk motor cycles
its do-adle, making a plenum to fit won't be too difficult, but with the stock throttle & afm on the end will limit its performance.
once you've purchased the throttle bodies, the extra cost of something like a megasquirt compared to getting an ally plenum made means that just fitting 4 throttle bodies & a megasquirt will probably be the best way to make serious power.
i'd imagine that some lairy cams & a decent head job would be a definite though
Complete and utter waste of time and effort.
Complete and utter waste of time and effort.
+1
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 10:25 PM
Complete and utter waste of time and effort.
What bike bodies or standard management?
Have to kinda agree set of jenvys and management only cost ya the once and won't need upgrading any more only mapping as your spec changes by the time you'd get the bike body's sorted properly would prob cost close to the same
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 10:45 PM
Yeah im on a tight budget! Iv also got a 400bhp mr2 build on! Lol! Rekon i can get c20xe bike bodies om for £200 with standard management! Saving mapping cost and should get similar mpg as standard engine but with +25 bhp!
You will not get 25bhp from bike bodies on std management.
Nor will you get similar MPG. Map will be totally out compared to standard, it will run lean and rich all over the place, probably mostly lean, which will lead to burnt valve seats, melty pistons and other wonderful things.
If you're good with a welder make one of these inlet manifolds then use a v6 throttle body, not seen it done on a XE but loads of people with LETs done it
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af201/stevejordan/025-1.jpg
fastcar1cars
06-08-11, 11:22 PM
Yeah was wondering about leaning out the mixture! Lol! What about adj fuel reg? And a chip for the ecu?
If i go megasquirt how much is mapping?
Not many reputable mappers will touch Megasquirt, (I know as i have been there in the past) The reason being its a DIY ECU most probably made in someones bedroom, late on a Saturday night after a crate of Stella.
The reason most won't touch is because if you have soldered something in wrong or a dry joint and its on the rollers at 7k then bang because something blew in the ecu.
I was a huge fan of Megasquirt years ago I had all sorts including adapter to plug and play on standard loom etc. But thinking about it now its just as cheap to buy a second hand proper ECU like a DTA E48 or the likes.
Yeah was wondering about leaning out the mixture! Lol! What about adj fuel reg? And a chip for the ecu?
If i go megasquirt how much is mapping?
You can run an adjustable fuel reg and adjust so it runs as close to good as possible, but the spots where the engine needs more and less fuel due to acoustic effects, differences in flow etc will be totally different, you will end up with something that runs ok maybe 70% of the time with rich spots, as you never want it lean, which will kill your MPG. Chip would work if you had one that's been mapped for those specific bodies on a specific inlet etc, but you won't find that.
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 01:05 PM
What about a apexi safc?
For the price of one of those you could get an older management system, and the apexi will still need setting up on a rolling road.
edit: For cheap power, I would look at carbs to be honest, a set of 40's (you really don't need any bigger) will set you back £150 in usable but not perfect nick, professional rebuild can be had for £150 iirc, and then set up on a dyno £200ish.
/\ you'll soon get fed up of carbs though. I was all for them when I fitted mine, but you will soon get very pissed off with them when you just want to start it and drive to work, c*nting about with the choke, fast idle for ages, loads of noise and popping and banging. not ideal if your leaving somewhere late at night, believe me! I can't wait to go back to proper fuel injection :)
/\ you'll soon get fed up of carbs though. I was all for them when I fitted mine, but you will soon get very pissed off with them when you just want to start it and drive to work, c*nting about with the choke, fast idle for ages, loads of noise and popping and banging. not ideal if your leaving somewhere late at night, believe me! I can't wait to go back to proper fuel injection :)
There's a difference between carbs that aren't set up and/or have problems, and a set of properly set up weber 40's, or if you're on a budget, Dellorto's... Dellorto's actually have a finer range of adjustment and a very very similar design though.
Angus Closier
07-08-11, 02:49 PM
There's a difference between carbs that aren't set up and/or have problems, and a set of properly set up weber 40's, or if you're on a budget, Dellorto's... Dellorto's actually have a finer range of adjustment and a very very similar design though.
I have dellortos......Good carbs IMO. Only cost me £200 and had them rebuilt for free.
I was going to go carbs but then changed my mind as After spending Near on £600 for the carb set up I just put in the extra cash and went ITBS.
I would also use a better ecu, like DTA or omex. Megasquirt is good and I really love the idea behind it but its really not for you if you dont know what your doing.
And pmsl at +25bhp from adding ITBs on original ecu.....
Hi
I have seen this done before and the setup made +25-30bhp!
No chance. You see gains like that from a 2grand proper SBD TB kit.
TBs designed for a bike, and 20year old standard engine management is hardly going to be a WIN
Depends if the temperature probe sneaks it's way into a coffee cup though lol
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 04:00 PM
Lol! Ill take a flask!
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 04:07 PM
im going to 100% try this! call me mad but why not? if its sh*t ill jus go buy proper management. i can weld and ive jus brought some gsxr 750cc bodies and an old c20xe inlet off ebay for £100! pmsl!
So any ideas, help would be great!
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/king.muppet/turbo20.jpg
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 04:17 PM
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6290/26012008090ea3.jpg
Angus Closier
07-08-11, 04:35 PM
Mate, ITB'S with a plenum is not a new idea, But why would you go and put the really restrictive bends/afm etc!
Standard management is just a bad idea? why dont you just change the cams for some mild road cams and a bit of a port? Good manifold and a power cap or somthing? Seems like a massive waste of time tbh.
IF you do it, get some rolling road figures......
scott.parker
07-08-11, 04:39 PM
By all means try it, but my SBD TB set up on a standard internal engine only gave me 20bhp gain, so if you do better, and it's a real reading I'll be very surprised mate.
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 05:37 PM
By all means try it, but my SBD TB set up on a standard internal engine only gave me 20bhp gain, so if you do better, and it's a real reading I'll be very surprised mate.
Did you use standard management mate?
No he didnt. Std mangement on tbs is a terrible idea.
scott.parker
07-08-11, 07:58 PM
Did you use standard management mate?
No that's SBD's TB's with MBE ecu and mapped up by a very very skilled ecu/rolling road technician.
Scott
Keep your money for a set of cams and head work like said before you'll prob see much better gains but if it works fair play I'll try it to as I already have most bits to do it but would go for sbd or jenvy for any real gains
fastcar1cars
07-08-11, 09:02 PM
Dont you need pocketed pistons for any cams worth having?
Looking at twin 40's but mpg is very low! Lol!
If i go bike throttle bodies what would i do about:
idle control valve
Servo assist pipe
blue_peg_16v
08-08-11, 08:35 PM
There's a difference between carbs that aren't set up and/or have problems, and a set of properly set up weber 40's, or if you're on a budget, Dellorto's... Dellorto's actually have a finer range of adjustment and a very very similar design though.
Totally agree I used to use the loon as an everyday car when I had the 48s on it they were properly set up and 2 pumps of the accelerator then true the key and it started every time no mater what weather it's all about set up mine were new when I bought them so that may also have helped. Carbs get a bad rep but it's hard now to find some one that genuinely knows what they are doing with them, as the majority of cars now have been on injection for years so expertise in the area has dwindled find some one that knows what there doing tho and your laughing
Totally agree I used to use the loon as an everyday car when I had the 48s on it they were properly set up and 2 pumps of the accelerator then true the key and it started every time no mater what weather it's all about set up mine were new when I bought them so that may also have helped. Carbs get a bad rep but it's hard now to find some one that genuinely knows what they are doing with them, as the majority of cars now have been on injection for years so expertise in the area has dwindled find some one that knows what there doing tho and your laughing
2 pumps is the normal starting procedure for anything without a choke, and works perfectly too tbh. Autochokes are a nightmare anyway.
There are indeed very few places that will deal with carbs nowadays, we get people in from near enough the midlands etc at work for carb setups.
scott.parker
08-08-11, 09:40 PM
Well there dumb then! as one of the best places for carb set up's is in the midlands! lol
http://www.ttp-performance.co.uk/?page_id=18
I like how they try and baffle people with it though "to name but a few" meaning... every adjustment we'd ever dream of making, and every one on the carb bar chokes. And if all of those are so important why don't they keep a full set of pump jets and chokes in addition to idles airs and mains? :p lol
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