View Full Version : 1300 turbo engine management
I'm slowly trying to peice together what parts I need from my 1300 turbo engine
The thing I'm stuck on most is what management to run it on, I could be pikey and use a switch bodge like Courtenay do but I would rather do it properly
I've seen this Megasquirt kit
http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31.html
Is this going to be suitable ?
Or should I be looking at something different ? DTA ?
I think I'm correct in saying that with all these aftermarket management systems you need to trun a crank sensor/trigger wheel?
Can I use a Vauxhall bottom pulley and sensor say off a nova SRI ? or do I have to get a wheel/sensor with the kit ?
Will my TPS on my Irmscher injection kit work ok ?
Do I have to switch to coil pack ?
Is building your own loom going to be ok ?
Although I want it done right I don't want it to cost a fortune lol
Sorry for all the questions but after many hours trawling the net I still none the wiser lol
There is someone local who has alot of experience in mapping all types of systems so that's not a concern
Any help, info, experiences, suggestions and I would really appreciate it
Edd
Tbf, its worth talking to the people at trigger wheels.com as they gave me good advise on megasquirt, what was needed the do's and donts etc, albeit i spoke to someone on there stand at autosport show
novalovingned
21-07-11, 07:31 AM
Could you not just use a rising rate fpr to take care of the fueling side of things. Not too bodge imo.
MattBrown
21-07-11, 10:09 AM
Could you not just use a rising rate fpr to take care of the fueling side of things. Not too bodge imo.
Its a bodge, just lost a 1200 corsa turbo due to one of them lol (Not mine)
Also Edd, Look at either DTA or Omex.
I know you say you want it cheap, but do you want it cheap, or want it right?
Megasquirt could also be used, a 36-1 trigger wheel is used, along with the ford EDIS coilpack, that will probably be £350ish all in.
Who's mapping it etc?
Ive been looking at Omex 600 lately, wether itll be any good for your app I dont know tho lol
irc with the MS you can now use the GM crank sensor (see in the articles section a guide about MS on a LET), which means you can run proper wasted spark as opposed to using the sheddy Ford Edith system.
Also Mowgli put me onto microsquirt which looks to be a properly made (allbeit badly component specced like all MS variants) unit which has a semi proper harness plug rather than a sodding D type.
SS will be ace ;)
Erm I really now going to start sounding like I know fcuk all lol but
Wasted spark ? This mean you do away with the GM dizzy and coil ? And use a coilpack set up and blank the dizzy off ?
Am right in thinking that using a MAP sensor I can do away with the AFM ?
That's sound like what I'm going for edd, using a C16SE cambox so the dizzy is blanked off and the coilpack looks OE,
I'm looking at Dta or omex 600 aswell
novalovingned
21-07-11, 06:56 PM
Its a bodge, just lost a 1200 corsa turbo due to one of them lol (Not mine)
Also Edd, Look at either DTA or Omex.
I know you say you want it cheap, but do you want it cheap, or want it right?
Megasquirt could also be used, a 36-1 trigger wheel is used, along with the ford EDIS coilpack, that will probably be £350ish all in.
Who's mapping it etc?
How do you mean lost lol? What happened?
That's sound like what I'm going for edd, using a C16SE cambox so the dizzy is blanked off and the coilpack looks OE,
I'm looking at Dta or omex 600 aswell
I've looked at DTA and Omex as well, alot more expensive tho, as I have no experience of aftermarket management I don't know if there worth the extra cash
Are the coilpacks from a C16se compatible with aftermarket stuff then ?
As Stu says, MS can use GM crank sensor/wasted spark setup. Its only megajolt (ignition only) that uses old ford edis setups.
SOME management systems can use a c16se coilpack, but most dont. C16se coilpack is self amplified, whereas most management systems use internally driven coilpacks (the ecu drives them), ecotec/xe coilpack. You can pick which setup you want to use on quite a few mappable ecu's too.
And yeah you can bin the AFM, just run on tps/map.
ryansnova
21-07-11, 07:43 PM
im also going to get a 1300 turbo built next year mate have you got pics of the turbo and also how big does the de-comp plate have to be?;)
sory for being a pest
i just happen to have a spare megasquirt ecu!
I'll bring it over when i finally bring over craigs nova! lol
you can run the megasquirt with the original dizzy if you want it to look proper. with enough time, it would appear that you could run it with a points setup, and maybe even a magneto......the whole point of it is that it can be made to run on any engine with a spark... you can even opt to use dizzy sensing, ie. hall effect, so you don't even need a crank trigger.... that only seems to be necessary for later dispak/edis type engines.
i just happen to have a spare megasquirt ecu!
I'll bring it over when i finally bring over craigs nova! lol
Nice one Si, I'll have a chat with you about it when I see you
im also going to get a 1300 turbo built next year mate have you got pics of the turbo and also how big does the de-comp plate have to be?;)
sory for being a pest
I don't have a de comp plate, my 1300 bottom end is fitted with low comp pistons
oh i still wish i'd kept that opel 1.3 bottom end that my A reg beige 1.2 had when i bought it......
edd, i'll scan that old mag article about turbo 1300 astras & send you a copy...it might be some use, but if not, its a great bit of early 80's nostalgia.
Yes please mate I'd be interested to see that
I was going to pester you for a link to the GM piston list that you once posted, you still got a link to that ?
Look at my sig. It links to loads of parts lists. The ks piston catalogue linky is there. If you do the a-z option, you can pull up vauxhall & opel, they are different.
ryansnova
21-07-11, 08:45 PM
I don't have a de comp plate, my 1300 bottom end is fitted with low comp pistons
how much would a set of thay pistons set me back if you dont mind me asking edd?lol
you can run the megasquirt with the original dizzy if you want it to look proper. with enough time, it would appear that you could run it with a points setup, and maybe even a magneto......the whole point of it is that it can be made to run on any engine with a spark... you can even opt to use dizzy sensing, ie. hall effect, so you don't even need a crank trigger.... that only seems to be necessary for later dispak/edis type engines.You can indeed, but who the hell would want to keep an old dizzy setup i do not know lol
1.making an engine look original ish.
2. Saving space round the crank pulley
3. Hall effect appears to be plenty accurate enough
4. The bosch coil & dizzy was fine for years, as opposed to some shonky ford bits.....
mowgli megasquirt has been able to run wasted spark for at least 5 years now if not longer. as already said it is megajolt that uses the ford crap. as for keeping the dizzy so the engine looks normal, theres a fecking turbo hanging off it!!!! screw looking normal go for proper wasted spark so the ignition can be mapped as well, so much safer on a turbo engine.
As for suppliers and info i cant recommend this guy enough. used him a couple of times now and had great service http://www.extraefi.co.uk/
craig green
21-07-11, 10:27 PM
I can understand why someone might leave it inplace for historical looks, but even then it'd look odd with no leads on the cap. Best to just make a really neat job of blanking the end of the cam housing or try & use a late Corsa 8v/C16SE style coilpack & matching cam housing.
Edd I would either choose MS for homebuild/hobby, price reasons or better still buy the best ECU you can afford happy in the knowledge the bits inside it are proven & backed up with a warranty etc. The usual advice is to go with what the person mapping suggests. I'm sure on the surface all the big brands are much the same until you start using daft add-ons like anti-lag. Dont forget 10 yr old systems will be pretty outdated now interms of how useable the software (mapping) is & what kind of laptops they integrate with etc.
MattBrown
22-07-11, 08:49 AM
How do you mean lost lol? What happened?
It needs a new piston, 3 valves and various other bits of metal picking out of its bottom end lol
18psi through an x12xe was just too much lol
Also bear in mind the long term cost of something like a DTA/Omex is much lower than a MS unit as the resale value is a much higher for the 'known brands'
Personally I'd only use the currently available MS stuff on an engine to learn about calibration, for 'proper use' I'd not bother.... And thats not just me trying to sway people off till I get SS up and running lol its just because of the poor component choice and connectors etc.
I take it that ss is 'stu's squirt'???
I love your comments about poor component choice, after all your comments over the years about shinky oe stuff...
Stu, why is Megasquirt so crap in your opinion ?
Surely is not that bad if lots of people use it and it's always being developed ?
At half the cost of DTA/Omex it appeals to me, and I can't justify the double cost for a name tbh
So SS is going to be better and cheaper than Megasquirt then ?
1.making an engine look original ish.
2. Saving space round the crank pulley
3. Hall effect appears to be plenty accurate enough
4. The bosch coil & dizzy was fine for years, as opposed to some shonky ford bits.....
Space around the crank pulley is hardly an issue on a small block.
Crank sensor and coilpack setup is a so much better system. And indeed a dizzy was fine for years in the 80s, until coilpack/wasted spark systems made an appearance and that was the end of that.
IIRC the reason(s) Stu dislikes MS is the components used on the board.
Although there has been loads of success stories with it.
Also remember that not many poeple are willing to map it, so it might be a bit of a diy job....
So there hasn't actually been any horror storries with it Stuart just don't like it ?
Getting someone to map it is a concern, round here there's no company that will do it, Craig has said a chap called Chip might be up for doing it as he does alot of mapping but I dont think he's spoken to him about it to find out if he will touch Megasquirt
Well, MS mapping software has never been the best, it will do the job but the last time i looked at it it could be mega complex if you want it. It had numbers/values and inputs for everything. Whereas a lot of the more expensive systems have a lot more user friendly map software.
There has definently been horror stories with it, as most are self built/mapped. But it can be made to work.
Then the horror stories end up on the bay.....
I keep finding cheap setups, and then the bidding frenzy starts, and i've seen them go for way more than new money..
When you look at an engine management system, it actually isn't the most complicated thing on the planet..it has a series of inputs, and 2 output channels, 1 for spark, 1 for fuel, and not much else...... [expects people to tell me off now]
I've used megasquirt in the past and was quite happy with it had quite a lot of add ons including the EEC-1v adaptor to connect straight to a fiesta loom BUT, the problem with it is because its known as a "do it yourself kit" allot of reputable tuners don't like to touch it due to they don't know who's built it or to what quality standard its been built too. I've seen some right bodged dry solder joints on MS and for this reason they don't like them.
I have since moved over to DTA and to be fair as much as it is dearer its not much more expensive in the end.
If you look on Ebay at the moment there are a couple of E48's in there with Looms for not much over 100 quid they would be fine for what you need. Also ignition coil is the way to go, either a Ford or Vauxhall, Much better to get a fully mappable ignition just make sure it isn't the coil pack with the built in amplifier as it will fry the ECU.
megasquirt will be fine and chip will map it ;)
atleast 50% of the silicon components arent automotive spec/grade, lots of the values are 'wrong' in that yes stuff works but some of the transistors etc will burn out faster than they should, electronics design is a lot more advanced than the design was even at the start.
I LOVE the concept of MS but its just not executed as fantastically as it could be. Hell I've knocked up a 2nd lambda sensor simulator so 'modern' cars can run a decat without triggering an EML on a proper PCB using automotive grade bits for half the price that someone is selling a shonky setup for lol.
SS wont be cheaper, but hopefully it'll be near OEM quality with a lot more flexibility and control options, plus my aim is to have it cope with ETB operation too which you are looking at a grand minimum for an aftermarket ecu that will do that.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.