14XE and 16XE Smallblock 16v Turbo Engines

[novarally]

Any links welcomed to threads or websites with information on these please?

I think Chris Compton had one in his Nova, but I haven't got around to doing any searching yet.

Mostly I want to see what people have done in terms of inlet and exhaust manifolds, as I am now planning on building a short-stroke 1000cc engine based on a 1600 16v.

Thanks

[calibra-keith]

keep me posted on what you find out colin if its not posted up on here, i have done a few searches in the past and not found a great deal with most projects abandoned, plenty of people saying there doing it or its easy but i cant find any good sites/threads to go by to turbo my 16xe

[christurboo]

im sure theres someone on corsa sport selling the turbo kits for small blocks ill have a look for you. think they were around £200

[christurboo]

EDIT....found it dont know if any good though mate?
http://www.corsasport.co.uk/board/viewthread.php?tid=608400

[novarally]

EDIT....found it dont know if any good though mate?
http://www.corsasport.co.uk/board/viewthread.php?tid=608400

Thanks, but that kit is for an 8v engine (I've already got a turbocharged 8v, see my 'Project' thread!)

[novarally]

keep me posted on what you find out colin if its not posted up on here, i have done a few searches in the past and not found a great deal with most projects abandoned, plenty of people saying there doing it or its easy but i cant find any good sites/threads to go by to turbo my 16xe

If it comes to it I will just get alternative fixing flanges made up to adapt my 8v stuff to fit the 16v (the port spacings are identical), but I just wanted to see how other people had done it, or if there happened to be any 'off the shelf' stuff available.

[christurboo]

ahh misread lol sorry

[phazer]

I thought I'd read somewhere that the Corsa Z16LER exhaust manifold bolts on? Should be easy to check with a gasket from Vx.

[Dayle_]

Phaser, is correct the manifold from the corsa VXR bolts streight to the X16xe cylinder head :-)

[novarally]

Phaser, is correct the manifold from the corsa VXR bolts streight to the X16xe cylinder head :-)

Does it really?! That's great news, thanks.

Now, who has a Corsa VXR exhaust manifold going spare please?..........

[calibra-keith]

Does it really?! That's great news, thanks.

Now, who has a Corsa VXR exhaust manifold going spare please?..........

i know that much as im after one aswell lol, was one on ebay manifold, turbo, intercooler and was about to buy but seller is no longer a reg user so could of been close to bit of scamming..., there was a manifold on its own the other day not sure if i saved it or if its sold tho colin.

[novarally]

i know that much as im after one aswell lol, was one on ebay manifold, turbo, intercooler and was about to buy but seller is no longer a reg user so could of been close to bit of scamming..., there was a manifold on its own the other day not sure if i saved it or if its sold tho colin.

Thanks Keith. Just had a quick scout around EBAY and can't find any manifolds or complete turbo units with manifold on at the moment.

[novarally]

Now this has got me wondering if the VXR cylinder head will bolt onto a Nova block?

If it does, anyone know how the VXR head differs (if it does) from the X16XE one?

[mowgli]

ask tom reid, thats a question right up his street.

i know the 1.8 is different, but not sure on 1.6

[Cheeze]

Hi Colin, this thread might be of use to you, shows the corsa vxr turbo being fitted to a smallblock engine, unfortunatly its not been updated in a while, but you can at least see the turbo fitting etc

http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=87710&page=3

[comptoncj]

Colin, the vxr turbo will bolt onto the x16xe head but you will struggle to get a filter relocation head in there behind the exhaust elbow, my one was a courtenay conversion, with a custom cast manifold but im sure you could make a x14xe/x16xe manifold work if you use the correct flange, only downside would be the turbo would sit rather low. you need a sealed intake set up, powerbox works well but dont use the cheap thin ones.

[peester]

the retro rides link is james hard , the count off here - i think hes all but left that project now as he's building a porsche 944 lately..
Apparently the corsa vxr cylinder head is the z18xe (small block n/a 16v) casting; so it should fit onto a small block bottom end. But yes; it differs almost completely from the x16xe head ; if thats the case.. Bigger inlet ports amongst other things.

Tom reid has been messing with these; as mentioned but little progress there lately - he's stuck with bodywork at the mo..?

[novarally]

Colin, the vxr turbo will bolt onto the x16xe head but you will struggle to get a filter relocation head in there behind the exhaust elbow, my one was a courtenay conversion, with a custom cast manifold but im sure you could make a x14xe/x16xe manifold work if you use the correct flange, only downside would be the turbo would sit rather low. you need a sealed intake set up, powerbox works well but dont use the cheap thin ones.

Thanks Chris.

Did you sell your engine?

Any photos of the Courtenay manifold?

[comptoncj]

Yes i sold my engine a week ago, ive got some pics I will email them to you tonight.

[novarally]

Hi Colin, this thread might be of use to you, shows the corsa vxr turbo being fitted to a smallblock engine, unfortunatly its not been updated in a while, but you can at least see the turbo fitting etc

http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=87710&page=3

Thanks for that, very useful indeed. I noticed it was a James 'Countvauxalot' thread.

Sounds like the parts list might read;

1600 Nova GTE block (can't use the Corsa block as it is externally different with the PAS pump casting)
Corsa VXR cylinder head
My current inlet plenum adapted to fit the VXR head, but I'll need bigger injectors
VXR or Courtenay exhaust manifold (can't imagine the Courtenay one will be easy to find secondhand, and is no doubt crazy expensive from Courtenay)
My current Garrett GT2052 turbo

The plan (funds permitting) is to have Exon Race Engines build up the block with a custom steel crank and rods, to reduce the capacity to 1000cc.

Add to that some proper forged pistons, and Paul at Exon reckons it will be good for 10,500rpm, and depending on boost, 300bhp or thereabouts.

Just need to find a big pile of cash now.

[Southie]

Might be some tips towards the VXR turbo conversion here.

http://www.allcorsa.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/x16xe-turbo-corsa-39695.html

Btw Craig Green ran a C16xe turbo setup on his old Nova some will probably have some extra advice for you.

[Danny s-p]

the head from a vxr don't fit on the c/x16xe as it the head off a x18xe1 oil ways or some thing is different

[Dayle_]

the head from a vxr don't fit on the c/x16xe as it the head off a x18xe1 oil ways or some thing is different Could be a case as the FOrd boys when they build the ZVH

CVH Head with a 2.0 Zetec bottom end, this isn't a streight swap and requires some of the oil ways welding up.

The VXR head if you can get it to fit the block looks like a right cracker in standard form!

Keep an eye open for a tubular type manifold with equal length runners, one of them did pop up on ebay last week and went for around £500 but would be sooooo much better than the cast Courtney one.

[Edd]

Might be some tips towards the VXR turbo conversion here.

http://www.allcorsa.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/x16xe-turbo-corsa-39695.html

Btw Craig Green ran a C16xe turbo setup on his old Nova some will probably have some extra advice for you.

Craig sold Chris Compton his engine, which was Courtenay converted, had a Mantzel inlet on it iirc

I thought someone had fitted a VXR manifold/turbo to a c16xe and the fitment was ok with a oil relocation kit ?

[calibra-keith]

Craig sold Chris Compton his engine, which was Courtenay converted, had a Mantzel inlet on it iirc

I thought someone had fitted a VXR manifold/turbo to a c16xe and the fitment was ok with a oil relocation kit ?

all the threads/sites i have seen if they got that far still said catches slightly even with oil relocation kit,

[Mieran]

Surely someone like beardy of mig can make you a manifold to the spec you want? He make LET ones all day and very impressive work.

[novarally]

Surely someone like beardy of mig can make you a manifold to the spec you want? He make LET ones all day and very impressive work.

No doubt he could, I'm still in the research phase at the moment, so just working out what fits to what.

[Danny s-p]

Could be a case as the FOrd boys when they build the ZVH

CVH Head with a 2.0 Zetec bottom end, this isn't a streight swap and requires some of the oil ways welding up.

The VXR head if you can get it to fit the block looks like a right cracker in standard form!

Keep an eye open for a tubular type manifold with equal length runners, one of them did pop up on ebay last week and went for around £500 but would be sooooo much better than the cast Courtney one.
regael do a tubular one to take a garret turbo. and the head bolts strate on it just a case of the oil way's been in the wrong place. best thing to do is use x18xe1 block it a small block and the vxr stuff bolts striate on the head

[bazil]

Could be a case as the FOrd boys when they build the ZVH

CVH Head with a 2.0 Zetec bottom end, this isn't a streight swap and requires some of the oil ways welding up.


ferriday engineering do a headgasket that blocks off the unused oilways for the ZVH conversion, I'm sure they would easily make one to suit the VXR head to 16XE block.

[novarally]

regael do a tubular one to take a garret turbo

Can't find anything on the Regal website? Any chance of a link please?

[Stuart]

You'd 'really' consider a lageR part for a race car?!?!?! you sir are mad :p lol

Could the oilway be blocked off on the VXR head and then run an external oil supply to it?

[novarally]

You'd 'really' consider a lageR part for a race car?!?!?! you sir are mad :p lol

Could the oilway be blocked off on the VXR head and then run an external oil supply to it?

Are we talking Regal, or VXR parts in general (or possibly both!)?

My opinion of Regal isn't high, but I have no personal experience of VXR's as a breed.

Most of the stuff would be ditched anyway and replaced with proper race parts, so I'm not especially worried.

I'm trying to get hold of a Corsa VXR engine or head/manifolds so I can do some mocking up and see where the differences are.

[mowgli]

i did read something about a mk2 mr2 that was turned into a bonneville salt flats under 1.0 supercharged record breaker. it had something daft like a 50mm stroke, and it screammed to about 200mph...... i'm wondering if a 1.4 might be a better size to base it on so you can get away with a longer stroke for more low end torque for all those twiddly bits... this is obviously just me having a ponder, also what gearing will you have to run if it is redlining at 10500rpm ????

[Adam]

The reason the head doesnt fit is that it has a internal oil breather cast in the head/block, whereas 1.4/1.6 16v have external breather pipes....

[Southie]

Some more reading for you Colin as regards to the oil ways regarding breathers and circulation between the x16 and the Z16 heads.

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/362082-x16xe-turbo-corsa-vxr.html

Might be of no help but I'm trying lol

[novarally]

Some more reading for you Colin as regards to the oil ways regarding breathers and circulation between the x16 and the Z16 heads.

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/362082-x16xe-turbo-corsa-vxr.html

Might be of no help but I'm trying lol

That's great, thanks, I'll have a read of that.

I've been checking out the prices of complete Corsa VXR engines, and have been offered 2 at £1000 each. Not sure if this is the going rate, but it seems like it might be the easy way to acquire all the bits that might be needed.

Or I might have to look out for a crash-damaged Corsa VXR and break it for spares.

[calibra-keith]

full lumps seem to be doing £1200 colin bit more for really low miles,
or
turbo/mani £100-200,
pistons £150-200
intercooler £50 ish
no idea for block/head not something im after i guess a few hundred each

interior and panels are worth a fair bit if you find damaged one.

[Danny s-p]

all trying fined out for you it my mate that get stuff off them for his corsa vxr

[Stuart]

£1K for a 200bhp 1.6 engine, thats not too shabby you know :) Although making one run in a nova would need a standalone pcm as the corsa one will want all the CAN nodes lol

[Mike]

£1K for a 200bhp 1.6 engine, thats not too shabby you know :)

God no, a 200hp Bowyer 1.6 is A LOT more then that.

[Stuart]

God no, a 200hp Bowyer 1.6 is A LOT more then that.

And more fun, BUT for an easy life its a cheap way in with the VXR lol

[Mike]

And more fun, BUT for an easy life its a cheap way in with the VXR lol

True true lol

[phazer]

just as long as you don't melt no.4 lol

[mowgli]

just as long as you don't melt no.4 lol

i did read an article from the pen of 'Dave Walker' some years back, where he had some bother with a particular engine, and he played with individual cylinder timings for fuel & spark to ensure he got better power & reliability, but as colin is planning a non factory intake, it will probably be ok.

[craig green]

For the probable cost involved in the whole engine, why not just have a 1 off bespoke tubular manifold made to mate with a perfectly specced chosen turbo charger?
Going by the recent reputation vauxhall ZLET turbo's have, the VXR one will only last a couple weeks anyway.

What is the possibility of getting the necessary part of a turbo machined up from a blank to get a (C20LET) KKK type turbo fitted to a small block? Something that has crossed my mind. I've never seen a KKK upclose to know much about them, but is it possible to remove the core & cold side from the integral cast bigblock XE manifold & adapt it something else?

[phazer]

i did read an article from the pen of 'Dave Walker' some years back, where he had some bother with a particular engine, and he played with individual cylinder timings for fuel & spark to ensure he got better power & reliability, but as colin is planning a non factory intake, it will probably be ok.

It's not the same problem as the C20LETs have/had. Its more to do with the 4th injector being starved of fuel when upping the fuel demand i.e remapping. New pump and injectors sorts it out, so was just a flippant remark given the previous statements about cheap power - it is if you are aware of that particular engines shortcomings.

Done properly (as with anything) its no more bother than any other engine.

[phazer]

Going by the recent reputation vauxhall ZLET turbo's have, the VXR one will only last a couple weeks anyway.


Can't speak for the Z20LET, but the LEH in the Astra has proven reliable, in terms of the turbo unit, as you know lots upgrade the LET version to the LEH when it goes. The Corsa is a problem if you use a bad map, or push it too far without addressing the fuelling requirements.

[craig green]

There seems to be a few horror stories floating around regarding the VXR units aswell, Vauxhall have released a coolant piping upgrade for it as they think that is the problem.
IMO none of the modern turbo's seem to last like the old Garrets & such used to.

[phazer]

There seems to be a few horror stories floating around regarding the VXR units aswell, Vauxhall have released a coolant piping upgrade for it as they think that is the problem.
IMO none of the modern turbo's seem to last like the old Garrets & such used to.

Interesting, hadn't seen any info about that. I'm inclined to agree with you, but then components that last for a long time doesn't drive revenue ;)

[mowgli]

There seems to be a few horror stories floating around regarding the VXR units aswell, Vauxhall have released a coolant piping upgrade for it as they think that is the problem.
IMO none of the modern turbo's seem to last like the old Garrets & such used to.

you hit the nail on the head there dr. its all down to unit cost, and a stock turbo engine, if looked after reasonably well, will last a very long time.... but a cheap remap will soon kill it.... then there is the 'only just good enough' style of engineering that manufacturers love to use these days, intercoolers with no margin for upgrade, cooling systems that will not cope with more oomph etc....

[mowgli]

It's not the same problem as the C20LETs have/had. Its more to do with the 4th injector being starved of fuel when upping the fuel demand i.e remapping. New pump and injectors sorts it out, so was just a flippant remark given the previous statements about cheap power - it is if you are aware of that particular engines shortcomings.

Done properly (as with anything) its no more bother than any other engine.

i can't remember the make of engine in the mag article i read, but if a fuel rail is that badly designed, which, to be fair, the bosch one does look a bit friday afternoon at best, then the demand from the other injectors will cause the 4th to not get enough... which is a big problem, and sticking a bigger pump on the end will still not be an ideal cure, but if it works, then fine.

[mowgli]

SURELY ONE OF THESE WITH A FLANGE ADAPTOR WOULD WORK OK?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKm4E4D2Kj)hsBOIvFfwnew~~_12.JPG

[burgo]

i can't remember the make of engine in the mag article i read, but if a fuel rail is that badly designed, which, to be fair, the bosch one does look a bit friday afternoon at best, then the demand from the other injectors will cause the 4th to not get enough... which is a big problem, and sticking a bigger pump on the end will still not be an ideal cure, but if it works, then fine.

correct, on my mates celica both the fuel rails are fed to either end and return out of the middle

[Adam]

SURELY ONE OF THESE WITH A FLANGE ADAPTOR WOULD WORK OK?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKm4E4D2Kj)hsBOIvFfwnew~~_12.JPG
Ive heard you can get pretty good results with that method. A guy on vauxsport did it

[novarally]

Out of curiosity, does anyone recognise this photo of a Nova with a half-fitted VXR engine, and more importantly, who owns it?

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/untitled-3.jpg

I've been contacted by someone claiming that they own this car/engine, and want to sell the engine, but I'm 99% sure it's a scam...............conveniently they say they are in Ireland so going to collect it isn't an option, but they are willing to ship it.

[novarally]

SURELY ONE OF THESE WITH A FLANGE ADAPTOR WOULD WORK OK?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKm4E4D2Kj)hsBOIvFfwnew~~_12.JPG

Works perfectly on my hillclimb turbo Nova. It's a shame the rest of the engine doesn't.

[peester]

pic/link doesnt work for me

[novarally]

pic/link doesnt work for me

I was having lots of problems with Photobucket earlier, hopefully you can now see the photo?

[Edd]

That looks like Gunny's nova, thread in projects

[Mike]

I was having lots of problems with Photobucket earlier, hopefully you can now see the photo?

Does look like Gunnys, but he doesnt live in Ireland.

[Adam]

Yeah thats Gunnys car, and his pic lol

[novarally]

Yeah thats Gunnys car, and his pic lol

Thanks, that confirms my suspicions. Although he'd committed, in modern parlance, a 'Fail' anyway.......

As scammers go, he was doing pretty well, until he sent this recent response to my questioning;

"Hi Colin,

I do understand your concern. I also would be careful when buying any
item sight unseen. But I am just a retired man of over 65yrs of age
and I have being honest and sincere in all my financial dealings and
life's endeavors. I would never rip-off your hard earned money as I
work hard for every penny I earn.

How do I prove my honesty and integrity? I could pay for postage with
my funds and obtain a tracking # from the courier just to clear all
doubts. Let me know.

Thanks,

Simon."



If only people trying to scam you had an IQ in double figures, they could do very well out of it.

[MK999]

The amount of 65 year olds we see in vxr turbo Novas at billing etc is quite obscene.

300bhp at 10k RPM doesn't sound like much for the spec/revs you're looking at btw, if it's all custom bespoke stuff then... well put it this way, a Swiftune A series pre crossflow on a single weber carb we had on the rollers recently saw 140bhp at 10-10.5k, naturally aspirated obviously.

VXR turbo manifold is a nice idea but it's all part of the casting for a KKK turbo afaik, and the K03's power range is utter crap, something like 170 to 200 BHP it will handle within it's efficiency, and a Garrett GT25 will do 170-300, so the standard manifold is pretty useless, would have to be an aftermarket tubular.

[novarally]

I've just bought a Corsa VXR cylinder head and inlet manifold, my friend in Glasgow has picked it up for me, so in a few days I will have it in my hands and can see how well (or not) it fits onto the Nova block.....