View Full Version : running road today
hi all
just got back from a rolling road session today running a c20xe with s/s exhaust just middle section, kent cams and pullys, came in at 133 at the fly, not sure how happy because i didnt have a clue what to expect,
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/ritchiehulse1986/scan0001.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/ritchiehulse1986/scan0002.jpg
opinions on the graphs as im not really sure what the graphs mean lol
MK1_Ben
09-07-11, 10:24 PM
Looks quite good, get it mapped up and you'll be able to get a nice smooth curve then.
Down on power. And 175lb/ft of torque???? hmm
What cams are they? What are the pullys set at? (timing wise)
was thinking it was a little down on power not sure what the cams are just got told they are kent, not sure what the pullys are set at either, thinking they might not be set up properly
not quite sure what to look at on the graph, was looking at a remap to get the most out of the cams, thinking about a dastek unichip ecu has anyone used the ecu
Doesnt look like the ecu likes the cams. Or they are setup wrong
Just noticed the AFR is down to almost 11 in some half of the run too.
what would be some advise on the next steps to getting it sorted adam?
Thats SEH power :S something is not right there I dont think....
Was it just you on the rollers? Or were there a few others (to compare to etc)?
Those graphs also dont seem to show your RPM??
yeah there was others people said the rollers were accurate
Assuming the engine hasnt been rebuilt since youve had the car G67 ELL? Thats about right. I know it hadnt had a rebuild when Merris had it, so down about 15bhp over standard is about on the money Id say.
Gaz1300SR
10-07-11, 06:53 AM
Assuming the engine hasnt been rebuilt since youve had the car G67 ELL? Thats about right. I know it hadnt had a rebuild when Merris had it, so down about 15bhp over standard is about on the money Id say.
Even with Kent cans and pulleys? I've never had an xe but I would be disappointed at that figure tbf.
it didnt have kent cams when i had it, just the pullys, and it would never EVER start for some reason, i got the hump with it after changing everything 10 times over, and instead of smashing it up with an axe, i sold it!! for oncelol
Hmmmmm a DD with the plots shown in MPH......... I'd go get your money back and go find a RR that isnt a DD and also ensure the operator has been trained in howto use a dyno.
tommy8252
10-07-11, 09:45 AM
I was also at this rolling road day yesterday and can assure everyone that the rollers are accurate and the operater is fully trained and experienced with using it, richi you should have 2 graphs, one shows air flow ratio up the left, rpm across the bottom and bhp up the right. This also shows your max bhp at the wheels. The broken line on the graph is your wheel power curve and the solid line is your air flow ratio curve. The other shows torque up the right, rpm across the bottom and bhp up the left. Broken line is torque curve and solid line is flywheel power curve. It also shows your max flywheel power.
Looking at your graphs I would say that your ecu doesn't like your cam/pulley setup and its leading to overfueling or your airflow meter is on its way out (that's what it sounded like to me yesterday) try swapping it and if that doesn't improve things find out exactly what cams and pulleys you have and how they're set up.
scott.parker
10-07-11, 11:47 AM
OK, Firstly don't take this the wrong way, but i don't understand why people take there car to a rolling road if the "technicians" there don't know what they are doing, if you take your car to a place you should expect them to know what to do if things are not right, did they just power run the car 2-3 times and say nothing?
A GOOD rolling road/mapper etc would say somethings wrong and either set it up, or tell you not to run it on the rollers till it's set as it could damage the engine etc..
And if I'm honest them graph's are really bizarrely laid out, why complicate a simple graph thats been easy to read for years?
And i would say to book it in with some one to it looked at/mapped set up with the cams/pulley etc so you don't do any permanent damage mate.
Scott
Judging by the shape of the curve at the wheels, which includes rundown losses, the rolling road is fcuked, or the cars gearbox is. That *should* still be a fairly smooth curve, although a bit of vibration and the odd snag is inevitable, in a perfectly healthy car and a good rolling road it shouldn't skip up and down like that. That will obviously lose you power too. By the sounds of it, the engine has kent cam pulleys on standard cams which aren't timed up right too.
Edit: Nevermind, just noticed it's the AFR... as Scott says, stupidly laid out graphs lol
TANKNOVA
10-07-11, 12:47 PM
G67 ELL?? this car by any chance the love of my life i had it from 2005 to 2006ish time just when it was built and looked like this
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova11.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova10.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova9.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova9.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova7.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova6.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova5.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova4.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/TANKACF/nova1.jpg
i sold it on with a side exit on it that was rather loud and well you can see the rest its the 1 car i would like back some day if you ever go to sell
Deanosri
10-07-11, 02:41 PM
Just noticed on the graphs that the runs were made in 3rd gear.....is that right? as i thought they were always run in 4th. Could this be the problem?
"it didnt have kent cams when i had it, just the pullys, and it would never EVER start for some reason, i got the hump with it after changing everything 10 times over, and instead of smashing it up with an axe, i sold it!! for once"
yeah it didnt start when i first got it changed a few parts and its now sorted, i think i will have to check if it is a kent cam or not,
"OK, Firstly don't take this the wrong way, but i don't understand why people take there car to a rolling road if the "technicians" there don't know what they are doing, if you take your car to a place you should expect them to know what to do if things are not right, did they just power run the car 2-3 times and say nothing?
A GOOD rolling road/mapper etc would say somethings wrong and either set it up, or tell you not to run it on the rollers till it's set as it could damage the engine etc..
And if I'm honest them graph's are really bizarrely laid out, why complicate a simple graph thats been easy to read for years?
And i would say to book it in with some one to it looked at/mapped set up with the cams/pulley etc so you don't do any permanent damage mate.
Scott"
i never said the guy was not trained properly he seemed excellent, gave me advice and asked me to ring him mid week if i needed more info, only slight problem is he is more aimed towards scoobys i think so wont know everything about the c20xe,
yeah thats the car looks similar but last few people didnt bother fixing a few major issues but sorting it all out slowly
TANKNOVA
10-07-11, 03:28 PM
any chance of getting a couple of phots of her up or sending me a couple would love to see how she looks now thanks
the car should have been checked over, as in cams,pulleys,timing,plugs,compression check,basic tune etc before it was put on the rollers, no point in even putting it on without this even being done, if you cant be funked doing this then you'd be aswell burning the money, also any decent operator would insist on this to prevent engine failure so im presuming you were asked if you wanted it done or had it done it prior ot the RR, if he never and just stuck it on nailed it in third to get a printout then he is a clown who should be avoided at all costs imo
there isnt any problems with the car, a rr day got organised and i wanted to see what bhp it was before i sarted doing any more mods to it so i would know where best to start with which was acheived as the printout shows 133 bhp. i have no problems with the lad who ran the event and dont see why people are calling him.
all i wanted to know is what can be learned from the rr printout, which from the responses is not alot apart from it is underperforming in most peoples opinion,
so my questions are
does the rr printout give me any advice on what needs to be done
what would be my next mods, thinking manifold, make sure the timing is good on the cams, powercap then remap (is it worth a dastek unichip?)
Id check it actually has kent cams, and what kind of cams they are.
am i right in listening to mowgli i take the dizzy of and it should be stamped on the cam?
yes stamped like this pop the dizzy of and you see it buddy
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/247148_1788661323411_1445917278_31488142_6747575_n .jpg
of topic, but what was the reason it would not start, i changed, ecu, loom, coil, dizzy, new rotor, new cap, airflow meter, injectors, and timing sensor, and it wouldnt start for toffee , please shed the secret:confused:
Is it just 2 13mm bolts to undo then the dizzy skidded of
Is it just 2 13mm bolts to undo then the dizzy skidded of
yes mate, be careful not to snap the dizzy plastic lug as you remove it
davidfox280585
10-07-11, 06:13 PM
personally buddy,your not too far from wakefield id make a phonecall to tony at art engineers and explain thatthe car is down on power from what should be expected and you would like him to take a look and check over it,he does a lot of motorsport work and has a rolling road there and is very clued up,
dont get me wrong the place looks a state as it isnt the nice shiny floored workshop but when you walk in and theres a 4x4 chevette cosworth hes working on and a rwd mk4 astra v8 you know you have come to the right place,
definately get it checked,for a rolling road setup i beleive was in the region of £75 but well worth it
Right just taken it off and there is no number on the cam so I think its a standard one? If so the the bhp figure sounds correct
davidfox280585
10-07-11, 06:15 PM
as mentioned in my last post buddy take it and get it rolling road setup not just a power run
Right just taken it off and there is no number on the cam so I think its a standard one? If so the the bhp figure sounds correct
It depends tbh mate how worn the engine is if the engines is in fine fettle it should make standard power bar a couple of horses but your dosent seem to be
there isnt any problems with the car, a rr day got organised and i wanted to see what bhp it was before i sarted doing any more mods to it so i would know where best to start with which was acheived as the printout shows 133 bhp. i have no problems with the lad who ran the event and dont see why people are calling him.
all i wanted to know is what can be learned from the rr printout, which from the responses is not alot apart from it is underperforming in most peoples opinion,
so my questions are
does the rr printout give me any advice on what needs to be done
what would be my next mods, thinking manifold, make sure the timing is good on the cams, powercap then remap (is it worth a dastek unichip?)
yeah i hear what your saying, but the checks should of still been done before, your first point of call is to check the engine is ready and fit to be modified, im guessing its on standard cams so output @133bhp is reasonable considering age, what you modify depends on what power your looking to get out of it as in finished article, but most often your best bet is to upgrade to arp's, rings etc first so when it is finished you can abuse and it'll last imo
all i wanted to know is what can be learned from the rr printout
From that specific print out? NOTHING!
Its a pile of **** as its everything Vs road speed, which is no use to man nor beast.
DO NOT consider a unichip, total waste of money and effort.... Was this RR place a Dastek franchise perchance? ;) lol
From that specific print out? NOTHING!
Its a pile of **** as its everything Vs road speed, which is no use to man nor beast.
DO NOT consider a unichip, total waste of money and effort.... Was this RR place a Dastek franchise perchance? ;) lol
as above, dont buy a pile of sh*t dastek chip, my mate was sold a piggy back ecu chip for his rs focus, it cracked 2 spark plugs in number 3 cylinder, i went with him to argue that it was going to blow up, but the bloke at red...tuning said it was mint! funny, because it blew up a week later, and didnt replace the engine and gave him a 500 bill for the engine strip down!!!!!!! , and said it was our fault that the fuel pump went? never herd such bullsh*t in my life!!:mad:
Well with the car being so light it is quick already, think I will be after around 160 which doesn't seem unobtanable
if your fee anytime this week or weekend , then have a run down to our place , its only 6 mile fom rochdale , will give it a look over with you and check compression and timing etc
as said it could be that if its a worn engine then 15bhp down fom std over 20 years isnt too bad , but id be looking to get it back
mine made 166 bhp* 2 years running with very badly worn piston rings , loosing me a lot of compression , befroe i rebuilt it , will be arranging a RR day over the next couple of month to see where im at now :)
* has had some headwork
I wouldn't go Unichip either. By the time you have finished it would have been cheaper to go Proper aftermarket ecu or buy the likes of a second hand DTA E48 with loom for £400. Wayne Schofield of chipwizards is in Rochdale and is highly recommended by a number of my friends. In fact I'm going to use him to map the Mrs's nova.
Thanks for the offer riggy I will drop you a pm, my next port of call was chip wizards as he is only in milnrow to see what he reccommends aswell thanks for advice people much appreciated
yeah chip wizzards is on my mate si's street lol , some very nice cars go in and out of there :thumb:
but welcome to pop down and we can have a nosy
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