View Full Version : connecting wires
Why is it not a good idea to use choc block or similar when connecting wires (e.g. speaker cable)? The general consensus is that this should never be used, but what are the reasons not to?
Before the pedants come crashing down on this thread, I fully understand that soldering & shrinkwrapping or crimping properly with a ratchet crimping tool is the correct way when joining wires lol
theres nothing worse than buying a car and looking at the wiring and it hase 30 connector blocks all over the place
i suppose 1 or 2 would be ok if you were having to keep connecting and disconnecting them
soldering and shrink wrapping will help against any loose connections especially if the loom gets moved about
windfreek
30-05-11, 03:41 PM
imagine this with chocblocks
http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g460/windfreek/0023.jpg
A row of chocblocks can be pretty tidy, but my concern would be wires falling out of the connectors. Sure its possible for wires to fall out of a crap crimp, but still.
I'd only use them if I had nothing else available for the joint, or was testing a few connections before wiring things in permanently
[edit] Having said that, a lot of the problems of wires falling out are usually due to people using wires too small for the connector.
probably because the fact that wires may be prone to coming out easily and its not any harder to use spade conectors or solder its neater ive used chock block and there hopless
Ive always,and will continue to always wrap the wires together then tape them.
Ive NEVER had any issues with doing this whatsoever
Solder is **** as it breaks.
Ive used 'choccy blocks' to wire in digi dashes before and aslong as you make sure your wire is in a decent way and screw them up tight, ive not had an issue using them.
I also read a guide on wiring connection types on another vaux forum (jov iirc) where someone showed examples of every type of connection and they even said that twisting and taping isnt actually as pikey as it seems, if you bare a good length of wire and splay it open to twist well together and then seal it with tape, you will get a good clean connection that will have a bit of flex to it:thumb:
ive used crimping connectors with proper crimping tool on mine
my stepdad likes to twist and tape, he has shown me how to do it and its does hold well! I still crimp or solder though
Ive always,and will continue to always wrap the wires together then tape them.
Ive NEVER had any issues with doing this whatsoever
Solder is **** as it breaks.
Never had solder break, what happens when your tape loses stick and fall apart...
Never had solder break, what happens when your tape loses stick and fall apart...
FLOL how many wiring looms have you known fall apart seriously?!
What an absurd comment!
MattBrown
30-05-11, 10:35 PM
If you solder correctly, with a good iron, decent solder and you tin up right, it's actually stronger then copper, so won't break.
When done wrong, it's bad!
FLOL how many wiring looms have you known fall apart seriously?!
What an absurd comment!
no it isn't, So you've never take tape lose stick and un wrap? If you haven't you must have better tape than ever other Gm loom i've seen...
Plus twisting and taping isn't really strong is it.. Pull it to hard and it will come apart.
comptoncj
30-05-11, 10:46 PM
Every wiring connection on that xe nova i stripped was twisted and taped! all the engine wired that needed connecting were all twisted together and connected to one live! so were all the stereo wires! I have always used crimped connections.
no it isn't, So you've never take tape lose stick and un wrap? If you haven't you must have better tape than ever other Gm loom i've seen...
Plus twisting and taping isn't really strong is it.. Pull it to hard and it will come apart.
Ive never had tape come undone,never,i cannot ever recall seeing any interior looms come apart either,underbonnet yes,where theres extreme temperatures at either end of the scale and then wet/dampness/oil etc.
How many people pull at their wires when driving along?!! LOL
"Better test my new speaker wires before i set off from these lights..."
:tug tug: "aye,that'll do for me...."
WTF lol
You didn't say it was just interior looms tho.
Plus it only take say the rear shelf being pulled to put strain on the wiring.. Or a under dash shelf being pushed it and catching something.. That's enough to pull them apart..
If you twist wires by the proper method, 2 wires parallel, seperate into 2 fan shapes per wire, squeeze them together and twist up into 2 'wires' then twist those 2 together... when pulling it on it, the wire will snap before it comes undone.
Personally I find it hard to get spot on every time and I've always favoured crimped connections.
The Op posted about speaker cable so my reply was about internal wiring.
Not had any come apart on me before and probably never will,so for that reason i'll carry on twisting and taping.
Used solder=crap,slow and made the wires brittle (yes i can solder btw)
Scotch blocks=Untidy and get caught on EVERYTHING
Double ended (lol) crimp things=Crap,never crimp tight enough,when they do,hey,they've snapped!
Twist+tape-quick,easy,secure,tidy after tape-Win
If you twist wires by the proper method, 2 wires parallel, seperate into 2 fan shapes per wire, squeeze them together and twist up into 2 'wires' then twist those 2 together... when pulling it on it, the wire will snap before it comes undone.
Personally I find it hard to get spot on every time and I've always favoured crimped connections.
Thats how i do them,sort of weave them before twist as you say with squeezing them
Thats how i do them,sort of weave them before twist as you say with squeezing them
I was shown how to do it by a materials teacher back in 6th form, I imagine theres a few ways but he just seemed to squeeze the fans together and end up with them interwoven rather well. I guess sliding the 'fans' over each other would work quite well, it's just a method I never clicked it.
I use a non racheting crimping tool and never had a problem with them being loose or snapping, I did with my considerably more expensive racheting one though, it's just too loose.
windfreek
30-05-11, 11:50 PM
If you solder correctly, with a good iron, decent solder and you tin up right, it's actually stronger then copper, so won't break.
When done wrong, it's bad!
agree.. but tbh most ppl who have had bad results probably only used an 11w iron whilst outside, where the lower wattage irons struggle to hit a proper temp due to a breeze/wind chill even on a sunny day, I use a temp controlled station or if its really cold a solder gun and ive never had any problems, and also refering to the twist and tape, you would actually be encouraging copper scale in the joints as 1, the moisture from your fingers is trapped within the strands and 2. once this happens you increase the PD in the wires and strain the wires current capacity and could cause a short/arcing over the scale within the tape and the PVC tape is a nice fuel to start any electrical fire, in which case the chockblocks are at least firerated, 3. water can still get past the tape, make the tape come loose, then ground on somthing.. imo if a jobs worth doin then do it properly, if not use selfamalging tape, at least thats waterproof!, but then again so is solder and shrink/heatwrap
brainsnova
31-05-11, 12:28 AM
I solder and twist the 2 wires separate tin them both then hold them side by side and apply more solder to melt them together. Thicker wires are best crimped as I can't get the above method to always work or I need a bigger soldering iron lol
2 bits of heatshrink one over the other after soldering for me.
Dont put too much current through a choc block, Had one melt and short out lol
http://mrbarlow.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/band-aid.jpg
windfreek
01-06-11, 06:37 PM
I suspect some ppls cars look like this behind the dash/engine! lol
http://www.cliksoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bad-electrics4.jpg
Tim Harpley
01-06-11, 09:04 PM
Vauxhall policy is to use crimp tubes and heat shrink tubes with sealing glue in them, they don't come loose but you need special crimping tools to curl the tags on the tubes over into the wire strands.
However we do solder and tape/heatshrink as well. But (no offence to anyone) we would never twist and tape because it wouldn't look professional if a customer was to see it.
welded.
Have actually seen this done when someone couldn't find the soldering iron lol
Thank you for the replies everyone - it's shed a bit more light on a murky area for me!!
I solder & heatshrink as much as possible, I've never once had a wire break/fall apart + it looks much neater than crimping/choc blocks
imo, if soldering is done well, you will never have any problems..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/mrmazz/Nova/PICT0005_Small.jpg
...or I need a bigger soldering iron lol
Bugger iron you say?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/mrmazz/0135_Small.jpg
Bugger iron you say?
No, he said a bigger one. You dirty *******. lol
If you solder correctly, with a good iron, decent solder and you tin up right, it's actually stronger then copper, so won't break.
When done wrong, it's bad!
It breaks at the end of the join as the copper goes brittle from the heat.
No, he said a bigger one. You dirty *******. lol
;)
MattBrown
03-06-11, 12:02 PM
It breaks at the end of the join as the copper goes brittle from the heat.
Never had one break.
Loomed bikes, cars and electrical day job lol
But I agree, if done incorrectly it can be bad.
;)
Knowledge of where that 'soldering iron' has been; do not want.
C612DNM
10-06-11, 10:09 PM
as someone who does vehicle electrics for a living, soldering in not something you want to be doing in vehicle wiring.
The reason - wiring loom move because for some reason, cars happen to be mobile things, and there is vibration. Wires that are soldered WILL break at the point where the solder stops eventually.
The last car manufacturer to use soldered joints in a production car was Austin, and the car was the A30.
Crimped joints are flexible, and allow for movement, and that my friends is why looms are generally reliable.
Where manufacturers have attempted to cut costs by using copper plated steel wire. Ford were a notable user of that. Now this stuff should never be soldered - because the copper plate comes off, leaving a dry joint. It doesn't twist together well either, because the steel is too springy. And finally, it's crap because unlike copper, steel isn't as flexible, and the wires break in areas where stuff moves.
Vauxhall's recommendation is to use crimp & shrink joints.
Ford & Jaguar recommend "Sureseal" connectors
Petroleum Regulations (for vehicles involved in the petrochemicals industry) state that soldering is NOT allowed AT ALL. All joints must be crimped.
Ambulances and vehicles carrying Oxygen should also not have any soldering carried out in their wiring looms.
I use Tyco/AMP Fastin/Faston, Mate'n'Lok, Minifit Jnr, and Molex Sabre among others, including Sureseal.
Proper tooling is required to use these, as bodged crimping is often worse than crap soldering!
Choc block can be used - providing you use bootlace ferrules on the end of the wires to stop them fraying, and fix the block securely, not allowing it to float around in space.
I shall get off my soapbox now.
Rob.
C612DNM
If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying someone who knows what they're
doing to do it.
i had an ecu plug with crimps on every wire....i put the cover back on and never looked again
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