View Full Version : c20let wont stay running
hey all, have literally just got my c20let to start briefly to which it cuts out after a few seconds. id probably say 100% the fuel pump doesnt stay running once i let go of the key. its as if it uses what fuel is in the rail and then stops(like a carb).
what could be the cause of this? the only wire i dont have connected yet is the EML light, would this realy not make it keep running?
some asap advice would be greatful.
thanks
bruce
scrap that, just found my test light and doesnt turn off.
also, as my exhaust isnt on i havnt got the lamda connected.
this thread is on hold, for now!!!! lol
should run with no lambda, it doesnt do anything untill its up to running temperature
Southie
22-05-11, 05:47 PM
Glad yet again PNG has helped out yet again lol
I actually was going to say that it could be a dodgy feed to the pump or the relay could be playing up.
got it to run a bit longer but still cuts out. seems to idle quite quick when it does run.
i think ill just have to wait untill i get everything connected properly to start ruling things out. all the parts are a mix from load of people so i cant say it should run perfect.
watch this space...
On my LET the fuel pump relay was faulty and it never ran, just cranks over.
You could test the terminals on the pump to see is its getting power
I would get the EML wired up first - when the relays go wrong - the EML wont come on, so its needed really as it does sound fuel/relay related....
krobinson
23-05-11, 10:04 AM
As will says, get the EML wired in, then you can flash out any fault codes!
Jeff16v
23-05-11, 04:19 PM
I had this issue when i first put my engine in, it turned out to be the plug on the tank vent valve. located under the right hand side of the loom cover and generally bolted to the head via the engine hook. it also needs a breather from the bottom right of the the throttle body.
I had this issue when i first put my engine in, it turned out to be the plug on the tank vent valve. located under the right hand side of the loom cover and generally bolted to the head via the engine hook. it also needs a breather from the bottom right of the the throttle body.
No it doersnt - you can bypass it completely (no vacuum pipes connected), as long as you keep it plugged in.
Jeff16v
24-05-11, 11:16 AM
No it doersnt - you can bypass it completely (no vacuum pipes connected), as long as you keep it plugged in.
Thats the hot start valve on the tophat.
I would get the EML wired up first - when the relays go wrong - the EML wont come on, so its needed really as it does sound fuel/relay related....
i had the the test light connected to the fuel pump continuous when i started it up again, the pump stays on until the engine stops
the relay was the one off you will!! :d
im sorting out bits so it can go to the bodyshop this weekend so playing with the engine is at a stand still at the mo. but once i get a chance ill get it all in correctly.
ste porter
24-05-11, 08:46 PM
icv and knock sensor plugs the wrong way round?
cts?
single piston dumpvalve fitted will cause it to stall and idol high
ill check those over, thanks ste. could i just take the vacuum pipe off the dumpvalve and plug the hose to eliminate that?
i cant rule anything out untill i get it all plumbed and connected correctly. otherwise i may change something that doesnt need changing.
Thats the hot start valve on the tophat.
and you can do the same to the vent valve - otherwise where have you got it venting to?
A nova doesnt have a tank vacuum input...
Jeff16v
25-05-11, 04:26 PM
and you can do the same to the vent valve - otherwise where have you got it venting to?
A nova doesnt have a tank vacuum input...
I know that but i presume it still need a feed from the trottle body and Brucer might not even have the valve plugged in, it doesn't run without it
the tank vent valve is plugged in and blocked off on it and on the throttle body where the hose normally comes from for it.
is that right then?
Yea brucer thats correct mate thats how mine is.
Well its deffo not the relay then! lol
It has to be something simple mate - PM or text me if you want, we can get it running! :-)
cheers will! no doubt will be a txt coming your way.
got the eml wired in and everything connected.
fault codes are;
15: coolant temp sensor, high voltage. OLD UNIT
21: throttle position sensor, high voltage. SECOND HAND, WAS MENT TO BE WORKING
31:engine rpm signal(crankshaft sensor), no signal. NEW, NON GENUINE
57:idle speed control valve, interuption. OLD UNIT, HAVE GOT A SPARE
71:air temp sensor, low voltage. SECOND HAND, WAS MENT TO BE WORKING
i think at the moment i should ignore the crank and the ISCV as they dont seem to relevant except the high idle. the others i think i should get new sensors for. it runs for around 20seconds then just stops instantly, it then wont re-start unless i leave it.
oppinions please?
31:engine rpm signal(crankshaft sensor), no signal. NEW, NON GENUINE
Will always be present without the engine running as its not got a running signal
Dont forget how old the wiring loom is, common to find broken wires.
Sounds like either a bad earth on the fuel rail or its just kept the codes stored and you need to 'reset' the ECU (disconnect it for 30 mins)
None of the above would cause it to cut out though really...
Reset the ECU and if it does it again - when you try to re-start it, check for fuel and spark.
When you try and re-start it after it cuts out - whats it like? Does it try to fire, or just spins over?
Cant remember if you said - but is the fuel pump new/OK?
letvalva
29-05-11, 08:34 AM
have you got fuel pipes on the right way round
Sounds like either a bad earth on the fuel rail or its just kept the codes stored and you need to 'reset' the ECU (disconnect it for 30 mins)
None of the above would cause it to cut out though really...
Reset the ECU and if it does it again - when you try to re-start it, check for fuel and spark.
When you try and re-start it after it cuts out - whats it like? Does it try to fire, or just spins over?
Cant remember if you said - but is the fuel pump new/OK?
ill crack on with that and let you know
have you got fuel pipes on the right way round
i think so, inlet going to the fuel reg side and the outlet on the other.
If the fuel lines are the wrong way round it simply wont fire so that cant/shouldnt be the issue i wouldnt have thought, i know from personal experience that the XE will not fire up with the fuel lines reversed, so i would imagine the LET to be the same.
done as what will had suggested.
reset the ECU, checked to make sure there wasnt any of the previous codes in it still before i started it. cranked it over and it ran, runs for 10-20secs then has a miss then stops dead. connected up a spark checker thing between the spark plug and the HT lead and it still sparks but doesnt fire. doesnt even attepmt to. i removed the fuel feed hose to the rail and cranked it, no fuel came out. i then made sure i still had feed at the pump when i cranked it and it does still.
so its either the pump or that i havnt got enough fuel in the tank. which is quite believable as i have only put 4litres in the tank since its been back on.
ill go get some more fuel after the f1 and see what happens then.
ok, the fuel pump relay is working as it starts and runs even for 20 seconds. for me this sounds like a dodgy feed to the fuel pump, try connecting the blue/red feed wire to 12v bypassing the relay. the pump will run constantly. then try to start and run it. also look at the cts as they act like a choke on these engines. if its up the creek it can cause these issues.
i ran a 12v feed off the battery straight to the terminal on the pump, started the car and the same happened. i disconnected the pump and from numerous tests with a direct feed id say the pump isnt any good as now it wont even run with a feed.
went to the scrapyard to try find one but there closed now, may try tomorrow. will make sure another pump works and fixes the fault with the engine before i contact the person i got the pump off.
mine did this but i just connected an ign+ and it ran fine then i crashed it and wrote it off......doh! lol
i think so, inlet going to the fuel reg side and the outlet on the other.
the feed goes in the passenger side of the rail, the return comes from the regulator side! :thumb:
the feed goes in the passenger side of the rail, the return comes from the regulator side! :thumb:
doh, swapped them over and still the same. tried putting a feed to the pump once it stopped but the pump wont go. think thats all i can do is replace it and hope it fixes it.
anybody got a decent seond hand pump?
I have a new one in my garagelol
I have a new one in my garagelol
lol you got every thing! how much do you want for it?
i bought a new(cheap fuel parts) pump, i firstly tried the pump on the battery to make sure it worked. nothing happend. but thought id fit it and see what happens. it worked sometimes when i had a feed off the battery onto it but it wouldnt run the car. made it splutter but thats it.
it builds up pressure untill it stops working but up at the fuel rail, i pressed the valve in and no fuel comes out and you would presume the pump would come back on to then put more pressure on the system but it doesnt. im saying that pump is faulty so they can have it back!
one thing im unsure on, is that my fuel reg/rail is off the XE i built the engine out of, is it the same fuel pressure on the reg and could that be the fault?
running out of patients now. that pump should have sorted it! :mad:
lol you got every thing! how much do you want for it?
i bought a new(cheap fuel parts) pump, i firstly tried the pump on the battery to make sure it worked. nothing happend. but thought id fit it and see what happens. it worked sometimes when i had a feed off the battery onto it but it wouldnt run the car. made it splutter but thats it.
it builds up pressure untill it stops working but up at the fuel rail, i pressed the valve in and no fuel comes out and you would presume the pump would come back on to then put more pressure on the system but it doesnt. im saying that pump is faulty so they can have it back!
one thing im unsure on, is that my fuel reg/rail is off the XE i built the engine out of, is it the same fuel pressure on the reg and could that be the fault?
running out of patients now. that pump should have sorted it! :mad:
Yes there the same pressure on the reg mate as far as i know but if your running ph2 it think it needs to be adjustable iirc.
Yes there the same pressure on the reg mate as far as i know but if your running ph2 it think it needs to be adjustable iirc.
No they arent! The early XE ones are 2.5 bar and the let ones are 3.
The later xe (DIS) are 3 bar though.
P2 lets need either a 3.5 bar reg or saab reds or similar...
right then, have eventually got my car back and i got round to fitting the fuel pump. to my dismay it still does the same.
im getting really pxssed off with it now and havnt a clue what could be up with it.
ideas or tests i could try to rule stuff out?
Can you give us a reminder of what youve checked/changed?
Get it on a trailer and over to me - I have enough parts to swap everyting to rule stuff out!
i may have to do that if worst comes to the worst will.
when the battery is reconected, it starts and runs for max 20seconds. after 5 seconds it picks up speed to around 2.5/3k, after that it dies. it wont restart, only out of luck it will restart straight away and run for a shorter period of time. if it dont start, i checked it has a spark, it does. after cranking i pressed the valve on the rail to see if theres pressure, no fuel comes out.
the fuel pump is brand new sytec one, i put a perminant feed to the fuel pump and this time(unlike the other pumps ive had) continues to run and doesnt slow down like its building up pressure. you can here the fuel going up to the rail quite loudly, it continues to do so for aslong as the pumps connected to the battery. but the car wont start.
if i left the battery disconnected to erase any codes then i imagine it would fire up from whats happend in the past, which puts me back to the beginning of it cutting out etc. when it does run if you go to rev it then it pretty much cuts out instantly.
have replaced the pump, CTS, ATS. still got the XE fuel reg on but the car wont run long enough to rev it even if i wanted to, have got a new LET one to go on.
have read a couple of threads on MIG about air leaks(as mine revs quite abit it could be a cause) making them stall. the hot start valve may be playing up, so will disconnect the pipes on that tomorrow.
so, any thoughts?
Hmmm - so if you leave the pump plugged in perminantly - it still cuts out?
My next step would be to put a multimeter onto the relay wiring when it first fires up and see if the feed is staying or whether its dropping off...and then try it again when it isnt starting
It cant be major - just something silly.
Just pop over in the middle of the night! lol
Jon_nova1
17-07-11, 10:16 AM
so its got fuel and spark? is it smoky when it runs? i'd be looking at the TPS I can't remember how to test it but a multimeter can do it
which wire should i test? the thick red/blue should be ignition live? and the smaller red/blue on when cranking?
wouldnt be the first time will!! lol
so its got fuel and spark? is it smoky when it runs? i'd be looking at the TPS I can't remember how to test it but a multimeter can do it
for the period it runs it is slightly smokey, unsure on the turbo though as it is second hand. the TPS is simple to test, just dont have a multimeter!
nova_stee
17-07-11, 04:36 PM
Have yo tried afm?
Are the boost pipes sealed from afm to top hat?
after a bizarre few moments of tests i found where i hidden the hot start valve the vacuum hose was kinked. so pulled it out from under the inlet and tried the vacuum hoses numerous ways and tried starting it each way i had. all were the same and no start. messed around a bit and before i gave up it ran, for quite a long period of time untill i went to stop it. turned the key off but it still ran. disconnected the battery and it still ran. it eventually lost any power it had in it and stopped. i have got a video of this that i will upload later.
i checked the fault codes and they were;
21: throttle postion sensor, high voltage
51:ECU programmable memory, PROM error, hardware failure.
ive had the throttle pos one before but never the ECU one.
does 51 mean i could do with a different ECU? i havnt a clue why it continued to run. still had ignition lights aswell.
Jeff16v
17-07-11, 09:38 PM
it would continue to run if the fuel pump wire and black wire to the coil were on a constant live instead of ignition live, when you disconnected the battery was it the live of the earth?
is it an early round toothed or later square tooth cambelt? late square tooth is a PJ ECU irc, mines a late one with PJ ECU
sorry am jumping in at the end,
Turning it off and it keeping running is timming iirc.
Id try to have it running thru the fuel pump relay tho.. as Jeff said, do you have the right ecu? In caseyour running an immobized ecu.
it would continue to run if the fuel pump wire and black wire to the coil were on a constant live instead of ignition live, when you disconnected the battery was it the live of the earth?
is it an early round toothed or later square tooth cambelt? late square tooth is a PJ ECU irc, mines a late one with PJ ECU
i had a battery on the floor and jump leads connected to the terminals, i pulled both off at the same time.
im pretty sure its PJ, its not HD which is the immobilliser one iirc
sorry am jumping in at the end,
Turning it off and it keeping running is timming iirc.
Id try to have it running thru the fuel pump relay tho.. as Jeff said, do you have the right ecu? In caseyour running an immobized ecu.
the timing should be correct, only concern i have there is that ive got 2 tx autosport verniers which dont have timing marks on. i matched them up to the original pulleys and marked them.
They haven't slipped? Or moved...?
I'll take them off, get it running right, then re fit them...
heres the video i said about yesterday of it running. the loud noise is the bottom pulley rubbing the cambelt cover.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z24/bachilds1988/th_DSCN4464.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z24/bachilds1988/?action=view¤t=DSCN4464.mp4)
Sure running on is timing. Reves sound fine. I'd really be temped to put std pulleys on to check it all.
is it possible to do the belt with the engine in place? lol
ill have a look tomorrow and see what i come up with.
the problems still pursist!!
the running on is down to my dash clocks, some of the traces on the back have/are touching each other. i found out the fault due to it running on again without the ignition key on, i then disconnected the battery and the thing still ran, with no battery!!! for aslong as i left it going. i tapped the dash and it started to stop and then picked up again. tapped the dash again and it stopped completely.
thats one fault found.
when it was running if i went to rev it, it would go to stall. i removed the TPS and it would then rev freely. i new this was a fault because of the fault code. when it does run it runs well, all though a little fast. 2k'ish
what i need to find out is, what on the back of the dash is making the engine start when the traces are touching and why/what isnt connected as it should be.
i know, its def electrical with the loom. some wire isnt making contact or isnt connected or something. unsure where to start
done some tests to try rectify fault code 21, TPS high voltage. the TPS itself is fine as i checked the resistance across the range. ive checked the voltage at the pins and each pin has 4/5v. something is creating it to have more lives than it should. rather not rip my nicelt taped loom apart, so if anybody has any way i can check the pins or ecu side of things let me know.
after deciding to rip the loom apart on the engine, under the plastic cover on the injectors i found one burnt out wire. it traces all the way back towards the ECU. its a red/white trace wire, which on the wiring diagrams looks like its something to do with the injectors. iy joins in with the red/blue trace injector wires under the cover.
what does it do?
its melted the plastic on some other wires too which may be duff now. will attempt to re-wire but we will see.
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