Still not firing.

[MK1_Ben]

As per the other thread, slowed up for traffic in the Nova, the revs died and it just stopped, no mechanical noises or anything.

It had been running slightly funny and wouldn't drive without a little of choke before hand if this makes any significance. So far, i've checked and the Engine is turning over fine so it hasn't siezed, but was unable to get a spark testing the plugs.

I've replaced the coil with a brand new one, replaced the wiring between the coil and dizzy itself (the 2 wires), tried a new dizzy cap and changed the electronic module on the dizzy itself.

Still no spark at all, all the other electronics on the car are fine. Answers on a postcard?

[Damo]

I take it your getting ign live to the coil? Is the earth down by the gearbox mount making a good contact as that stopped my carb'd mk2 running once.

[MK1_Ben]

Down on the right chassis leg? (looking into the engine bay) that one's fine, like new.

[mowgli]

i know i keep saying this, but is the camshaft turning? people have swapped tons of things to find it was the cambelt.

have you changed the plugs or ht leads?

[Edd]

Checks earths, if new coil has been fitted bare metal the coil where it meets the inner wing, if it's a cheap one it might not work as I found out on my 1300

You fitted new plugs ? Are they gapped correctly ?
Do you have a spark from the plugs when there out of the engine ?

Fuel ok ?

[MK1_Ben]

As said Mowgli cambelts fine.

Edd; earths are good, coils new and I baremetaled where I mounted it. Plugs and leads are a couple months old (good quality ones), no spark on plugs when out the engine. HOWEVER, after cranking it for 10 seconds or so, when touching the coil it discharged a spark on me? but that's the only time it's happened which is like it's not earthing right.

[Damo]

As said Mowgli cambelts fine.

Edd; earths are good, coils new and I baremetaled where I mounted it. Plugs and leads are a couple months old (good quality ones), no spark on plugs when out the engine. HOWEVER, after cranking it for 10 seconds or so, when touching the coil it discharged a spark on me? but that's the only time it's happened which is like it's not earthing right.

Defo sound like an earthing problem to me but if the gearbox ones fine hmm what bout the one that runs down from the coil to the chassis leg?

[Edd]

I would undo the bolt that hold the gearbox earth strap and coil earth to the chassis leg and clean it all up with a wire brush, as Damo says deffo sounds like a earth issue

So no spark from plugs when placed on manifold stud and cranking over ?

[Spudly]

Have you checked your cam hasnt snapped, whip the dizzycap off and crank it over, make sure the rotor arm is turning!

[MK1_Ben]

Will double check all the earths tommorow.

Surely I would have felt/hear the cam going though, there was no judder, no noise. Literally the revs just smoothly died and the car turned off.?

At this rate it's going to be cheaper to get a new Engine, i've already spent £60 in replacement ignition parts :(

[Spudly]

Nope it will have just cut out if the cam snapped, check it as my mates old GTE did the same, going round a bend in steady traffic about 30mph and it cut out and wouldnt restart!!

[Damo]

Does the car sound like normal when turning over/ trying to start? if the cams snapped it should sound different as if the the belt timing out.

[Spudly]

Does the car sound like normal when turning over/ trying to start? if the cams snapped it should sound different as if the the belt timing out.



Nope sounds exactly the same, too my mate two days to figure out the cam had snapped inbetween two and three!

[Damo]

Nope sounds exactly the same, too my mate two days to figure out the cam had snapped inbetween two and three!

Hmm ive just sorted my mates e16se it was quarter of a turn out on the cam and when it was turing over it sounded different to normal tured it back to normal and bang it sounded normal and fired up.:confused:

[MK1_Ben]

Going to check all the Earth's tommorow and the cam.

If no luck after that I'm just going to give up an buy another Engine as I can drop that in, in less than an afternoon. Rather than spending countless evenings after work faffing about with the current one.

[Spudly]

Yeah but yours will have been sparking and trying to fire, with the dizzy end of the cam not turning there is no spark so therefore it wont even be trying to fire, its like taking off the king lead, it will sound normal turning over but wont ever fire!



Cam will be easiest thing to check, undo the clips on the dizzy cap and get someone to turn it over, if the rotor arm aint spinning then there's your fault:thumb:

[Royston]

I would investigate your failure first, before splashing cash on another engine, if there is no spark that is a problem you need to rectify.

if you have changed the ignition parts, has a wire come off?

As mentioned, check the cam belt is OK, and easy check is the rotor arm going round.

If so cam cover off and check cam/crank pulley timing is correct and no teeth off damage to belt.

[Damo]

Yeah but yours will have been sparking and trying to fire, with the dizzy end of the cam not turning there is no spark so therefore it wont even be trying to fire, its like taking off the king lead, it will sound normal turning over but wont ever fire!



Cam will be easiest thing to check, undo the clips on the dizzy cap and get someone to turn it over, if the rotor arm aint spinning then there's your fault:thumb:

Point taken mate your right in that respect spudders.

[16v Nova Kev]

faulty king lead?

[Southie]

Also if your rotor arm isn't turning it could be the distributor, I had on my 1.4 a part in the distributor that connects to the rotor arm that had a plastic lug that turns it which had cracked and stopped it from running, maybe worth a try.

Plugs, cap, dizzy, earths, leads, cambelt, timing, good earth under coil, battery - once all these are checked then the cam is worthy of a check.

[Spudly]

Point taken mate your right in that respect spudders.



:d

[Lewis.]

easiest way to check the camshaft is to just look in the oil cap :thumb: they seem to break fairly often on 8v's for some reason. for the effort involved in unscrewing a lid, i'd check it first.

[Mboasty]

ive had very simluar problem with my gte, had an intermittent starting fault/cutting out, but now wont start at all, & to top it off my redtop has decided to pack up with simluar problem be interesting to find out what it is!

[Spudly]

easiest way to check the camshaft is to just look in the oil cap :thumb: they seem to break fairly often on 8v's for some reason. for the effort involved in unscrewing a lid, i'd check it first.



Or the easier effort of undoing two snap clips and dropping the dizzy cap off lol

[mowgli]

it could be the ignition switch. are you definitely getting a feed voltage to the coil?

[olly19]

iv got exactly the same problem i got told could be the camshaft sensor? not magnatising properly

[MK1_Ben]

Checked the earths, all fine.

Dizzy off, cranked it, it's turning over. Checked whole cambelt = fine. Removed cam cover and visually looked at cam, mint condition.

....

[grooge]

had a similar problem and did everything you have done. was the dizzy itself that was gubbed.

[Southie]

Are you getting fuel through?
Do you have a fuel filter?
Have you cleaned the carb out?

[MK1_Ben]

@grooge, ive tried 2 working dizzy's.

@Southie, that was the first thing I checked, fuel filters clean as a whistle and I can visually see the carb jetting fuel. It's literally getting no spark, everything else is fine.

[Southie]

Well then have you another coil and the thingy underneath it lol to try? or as Mowgli says is the coil getting a feed? It's got to be that or a bad earthing point to the bracket on the coil.

What happens it you try bumping it off?

[MK1_Ben]

Bump starting it doesn't fire it either. In regards to a poor earth on the coil, I've actually routed a wire from the bracket it's on onto a better earth point to make sure it's earthing right, still no spark.

Really starting to annoy me haha, time for a c16xe?

[Edd]

Do you have a spark when plug placed on manifold stud ?

Is the coil a cheap one ? The cheap one I had didn't work

Do you have the wires that go into the coil in the right place ?

Tried changing the ignition module inside the dizzy ?

[Southie]

Have you cleaned under the coil bracket though to make a good earth?

Get some engine bay pictures up, someone may see something that looks out of place :)

C16xe Nova, what's one of those lol

[grooge]

Is the coil a cheap one ? The cheap one I had didn't work



i had similar to this, correct coil for 13sb but it wouldnt spark. took it back to the shop and they tried it on both a corsa and astra and it worked on both of them so they exchanged it for another. my car ran fine with both the coil they replaced it with and another i borrowed from friend so it was defo the coil that was faulty

[MK1_Ben]

No spark on manifold stud, Coil is a decent quality one I had to get ordered from up country. Coil wiring is all correct (as it was when it was working), changed the module inside the dizzy.

[Royston]

I suspect we're/your missing something obvious, starts thinking............

[mowgli]

is there a fuse gone, and is there definitely a +ve feed going to the coil.. ?

[MK1_Ben]

Checked all the fuses under the dash, all fine.

[mowgli]

is the coil getting 12v?

[Royston]

is there a fuse gone, and is there definitely a +ve feed going to the coil.. ?

Was going to suggest the same, check with a multi meter.


The other dizzy's you've tried, were working, and with the same electrical fittings? and wired correctly

Definitely worth posting some pictures of the coil and dizzy arrangement, showing the wiring colours;)


Have you left the plugs out over night to allow the excess petrol to evapourate?

Could be drowned in petrol, killing the spark.

[Novasport]

I'd put money on it being the ignition module in the dizzy, quite a common problem

[Novasport]

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqQOKpEE1rfz)z,9BNg+LtSnoQ~~0_12.JPG

[Royston]

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqQOKpEE1rfz)z,9BNg+LtSnoQ~~0_12.JPG

I mentioned it earlier Rich, I believe it has been replaced, and other Dizzy's tried, suspect it is something simple

[Novasport]

With the correct one though, there are a number of different ones.

[MK1_Ben]

Yep, same printed number on it.

As above, it's obviously something really simple that's been overlooked.

[Royston]

We are trying to help;)

[MK1_Ben]

I know, I wasn't saying it in a shetty way :)


/now having a friend who's pretty in the know with older cars (owns several mk1+2 escorts :)) to come have a look at it tommorow. He reckons already it's a wire that's damaged/burnt out due to it only happening after some heavy rain driving.

[MK1_Ben]

FAO anyone that was interested.

After leaving it sat there for a week as I was fecked off with it, looked at it with new light this evening.

Turns out a few teeth had sheared from the cam pulley (which wasn't noticeable as they were hidden by the belt), which explains why the belt was turning the cam over, but wasn't firing the ignition properly.

Getting a cambelt and fitting a new pulley tomorrow, wish me luck.

[vauxluva]

Shame i no the feeling! good luck matey !! Dont let it get you down?

[MK1_Ben]

Not too concerned about it now as I'm using one of my other cars for the time being and if it doesn't fix it i've bought an E16SE + Box for bugger all which is sitting in the garage. Just miss driving it really.

[vauxluva]

Not too concerned about it now as I'm using one of my other cars for the time being and if it doesn't fix it i've bought an E16SE + Box for bugger all which is sitting in the garage. Just miss driving it really.
But that means new tank+ fuel lines ect if yours is a carb.

[MK1_Ben]

It's on bike carbs.

But yeah, the valves etc should be fine as the 12nv is valve safe and it went at idle, plus there were no mechanical noises upon break.

[vauxluva]

I would check first my 1.4 sr snapet @ the pulley end and mashed 2 vavles+guides,no noise just cut out.!!

[vauxluva]

I would check first my 1.4 sr snapet @ the pulley end and mashed 2 vavles+guides,no noise just cut out.!!
mines1.4nv!

[MK1_Ben]

The 1.4 isn't valve safe though? iirc

Regardless, when I turned my engine by hand there was no metallic contact, plus turning it on the key still caused the engine to "puff" out of the spark plug holes (as above, it still cranked but erratically), so there's no metal on metal contact.

[MK1_Ben]

Just the update.

Changed the cambelt, was absolutely no valve/piston contact. Took quite a while to fire up, then was rough for 10 minutes until it sorted itself out. Now it's running a million times better with the newer dizzy + brand new coil.

It's running a little warmer than it did (goes up to just below the middle mark rather quick), but doesn't go over. And the tune isn't spot on, but nonetheless. MK1_Ben is very happy, I've missed driving a Nova!

[16v Nova Kev]

thats good news.

[Royston]

Got there in the end!!

Pleased it is OK