View Full Version : 150 cdti into a nova? Or astra mk1,2??
NOVA saloon
18-05-11, 08:32 AM
As above been talking about it with mates. Opinions please. Thanks. :thumb:
nans_nova
18-05-11, 08:49 AM
do it put it in a nova me and my mate thinking bout do mine next year as ive bought a wrote of 150 vectra for spairs for mine fit it with a crd-2 box f*****G rapid
I have pondered this a few times (along with putting one in a VX lol) and I never got to the bottom of how much CAN is on the 150ps CDTI PCM... even on the vec-C forum etc they didnt seemt o know/have a good answer.
If there is minimal CAN then a new controller could be installed to pretend to be the missing signals and if there is no CAN then score :) but if its complicated (doubtful as its GM afterall) then its a dead duck :(
MattBrown
18-05-11, 10:14 AM
Looked into it for my mk4 va, getting ones from a mk5 astra, and transfer the lot.
At the vectra meet saturday, I had a chat with someone, hes running 227bhp and 400IBFT, thats an awesome figure, and he recons 60mpg when going steady.
The wiring is hugely overcomplicated, he recons the only was is aftermarket management.
Although, they have cracked the VXR canbus wiring, so If you sit down with diagrams, im sure it Possibly could be done.
/\ Pay gm enough & the info is available......
nans_nova
18-05-11, 10:30 AM
You can buy a stand alone management system for them
its CAN, not canbus :p marketing goons use bus ;)
Calibrating a common rail diesel engine isnt as easy as calibrating a petrol engine lol. I guess an early 150CDTI engine might just be on a far simpler network so frigging it should be easier.
At the vectra meet saturday, I had a chat with someone, hes running 227bhp and 400IBFT, thats an awesome figure, and he recons 60mpg when going steady.
Thats absoloute bollocks! there is no possible way on this earth he is running 60mpg from the Z19 DTH not only has he added 70bhp and doubled the tourqe (which is not impossible) but he has added 12mpg on the standard book figure! And i am talking from expeir
I have considered a modern diesel conversion but would want the 3.0v6 vectra/signum engine.
EDIT: And i am talking from expeirience as have a Astra H around 200BHP and if i short change before 2000rpm and cruise on the motorway at 75-80mph (around 2krpm) i struggle to hit 48-49mpg driving normally i hit around 46mpg and consider that pretty good for the performance of the car which i awesome.
I have considered a modern diesel conversion but would want the 3.0v6 vectra/signum engine.`
It's a well packed engine in a Vectra, wouldn't like to see it in a Nova.lol
TeddyThom
18-05-11, 10:47 AM
It's a well packed engine in a Vectra, wouldn't like to see it in a Nova.lol
If Jack can do it, I'm sure Ben would be able to crack it lol
I wouldnt touch the 3.0 V6 derv... liner drop FTL
I wouldnt touch the 3.0 V6 derv... liner drop FTL
And fuel pumps like to crap themselves as I've just found out.:cry:
I wouldnt touch the 3.0 V6 derv... liner drop FTL
I know you seriously looked into these so would take heed from your advice, i like the idea of them but havent actally looked into it, with regards of fitting in a nova, with some of the cars that have been built on here i dont think we can anything is impossible!
If Jack can do it, I'm sure Ben would be able to crack it lol
lol thanks for the confidence but you obviously dont Jack to well, i think all Jack done was take photo's lol
I know you seriously looked into these so would take heed from your advice, i like the idea of them but havent actally looked into it, with regards of fitting in a nova, with some of the cars that have been built on here i dont think we can anything is impossible!
Even the SAAB specialists I went and spoke to told me to avoid the V6 like the plague, they were cheap for a reason lol
I'm sure fitting one wouldnt be a problem (although ferk it would be nose heavy)
(although ferk it would be nose heavy)
Assuming it went in the nose! lol
people in the diesel supply trade are telling me that its the low sulphur/biodiesel mixes that are about that are murdering modern fuel systems
but i haven't heard of liner drop since they stopped making leyland diesels......
I would say the factories screwing every possible bhp/lb ft out of the common rails are destroying the new diesels not the fuel going in them.
TeddyThom
18-05-11, 11:37 AM
lol thanks for the confidence but you obviously dont Jack to well, i think all Jack done was take photo's lol
In that case follow in his footsteps and enroll in a photography course lol
In that case follow in his footsteps and enroll in a photography course lol
Done that nigh on 15 years ago when you actually had to develop photos lol, didnt become young film maker of the year for nothing either lol
I would say the factories screwing every possible bhp/lb ft out of the common rails are destroying the new diesels not the fuel going in them.
we have some common rail agric/plant & it is knackering them up. one is 9litres & 220hp.
TeddyThom
18-05-11, 12:04 PM
Done that nigh on 15 years ago when you actually had to develop photos lol, didnt become young film maker of the year for nothing either lol
lol in that case Jack doesn't stand a chance
we have some common rail agric/plant & it is knackering them up. one is 9litres & 220hp.
its called costdown.... Common Rail FIE is sodding expensive so any cost downs that can be made WILL be made, which then leads to quality issues but the OEM will have worked out the cost benefit of having to replace a pump or injector VS making them properly in the first place.
please explain to me what the logic is of people like john deere having to make their engines pass euro road emissions yet they will never get checked once built. and they are building vehicle to run at a set max rev to work hard, which is by design, going to emit the same crap as an old in line direct injection engine that will have cost way less to make & will easily do 10000hrs without a spanner being shown to it
Because they can be road registered which means they have to adhere to Euro emissions... ergo all the required stuff to go with.
by design the older setup might use more fuel than the new one (although the visible soot may look the same) for the same working conditions, granted the newer stuff will need more work but thats just common sense from the OEM to make you need to buy parts and new vehicles ;)
well, its rather raddled their warranty fund so far...... and it is taxed as a special vehicle.
If Jack can do it, I'm sure Ben would be able to crack it lol
That wasn't a diesel lol
NOVA saloon
19-05-11, 12:13 AM
Would it be better to just use the wiring etc from the donor derv and fit into what ever classic Vauxhall you are using??
Canbus is an asshole of a loom to do anything with and you would never get it to work in anything else without adding the entire 100kg's of it and then it would be just as much an ****.
hence the need to find out if the early 150's were only on a half can or no can car.... I never got to the bottom of that as the vec-c lot only seem to put coilovers and big wheels on their cars and never do any real work lol
dj_wudgey
19-05-11, 10:17 AM
dont put that sh*t in any off them diesels are for homosexuals!!
dont put that sh*t in any off them diesels are for homosexuals!!
Or people that know theyre bombproof, get amazing mileage (which noone can afford to overlook with todays fuel prices) and you can get stupid power out of them!!
What bhp does your SR run again?
My mate has one in his vec c, even then it looks like a tight squeeze. Pulls well for a 5 tonne car though.
Edit: you cant get stupid power out of them, they just have decent torque figure and a SR would rape a vectra etc on B roads.
My mate has one in his vec c, even then it looks like a tight squeeze. Pulls well for a 5 tonne car though.
Edit: you cant get stupid power out of them, they just have decent torque figure and a SR would rape a vectra etc on B roads.
I wasnt referring directly to vec C diesels, just diesels in general, trying to educate young mr wudgey that he is the gay one for overlooking the power and fuel efficiency that can be gained from a diesel!
Reason i asked about his power output was that his will have been about 70 new, maybe about 85 now with his twin 40's which on average will have been a few hundred quid to buy fit and setup yes?
My old cav td, was 82bhp out of the box, £45 later it was rolling roaded @ 107, is that power increase really gay, i think not:p
TBH Dans 150CDTI raped my VX lol
hence me wanting a 150 in the vx
a 200ps 'remap' on the 150 gives the same torque as a courtenay 'stage 4' LET lol
tbf some cars that had that engine do handle, Astra 888 for example.
Vectras are like a boat, I don't get why they have a steering wheel because it never does anything when you use it and just understeer lol
tbf some cars that had that engine do handle, Astra 888 for example.
Vectras are like a boat, I don't get why they have a steering wheel because it never does anything when you use it and just understeer lol
your driving it wrong then... OK its a big boat but its not terrible.
dj_wudgey
19-05-11, 01:56 PM
Or people that know theyre bombproof, get amazing mileage (which noone can afford to overlook with todays fuel prices) and you can get stupid power out of them!!
What bhp does your SR run again?
my sr not two much!! but then im buying a corsa trade car this week which will be home to a xe for now!!
but as for how much power my sr had i regularly drive/borrow my pals vectra sri 150 diesel and to be honest my sr puts a way bigger smile on my face than that vectra ever could!! it doesnt have as much power but as important as power its got the sound that no diesel will ever have!!! 40's ftw!!
Edit: you cant get stupid power out of them, they just have decent torque figure and a SR would rape a vectra etc on B roads.
I will take you on with my astra in that challenge anyday!
hence the need to find out if the early 150's were only on a half can or no can car.... I never got to the bottom of that as the vec-c lot only seem to put coilovers and big wheels on their cars and never do any real work lol
Pretty sure the Vectra C uses a first gen system from Mercedes Benz (or a re-sale version of it). They are full CAN but they run a BCM rather than have it all integrated into the main ECU.
I would imagine you would need to simulate the BCM inputs to the ECU as required. Imob and ABS would be two that spring to mind.
Getting an ABS speed in should be easy enough. Immo might be trickier :s
but if its a simple BCM then that wont weigh much and may even be part of the fusebox so the Nova one can be replaced,
Yes the handoff for those types of comms will be interesting. Don't know if the BCM/ECU have 'pairing' like the later Astra H ones do. Though if you are simulating one thing you may as well do the other lol
If you can get a reg for one I can check EPC/TIS and confirm the BCM and any other modules it may run.
Mines the later astra h model so would the reg be any use? VU08 WLR
So 'stand alone' management isnt an option?
Just use a Perkins, it will sound the same!
Mines the later astra h model so would the reg be any use? VU08 WLR
I'll certainly take a look but I would expect it to be like the petrol H's where everything is in the main engine ECU.
If someone can find a Veccy C plate?
Ok, had a quick look. H seems to be integrated as expected.
Looked through Vectra C and there is a separate BCM, part code differs depending on the optional extras fitted to the car. Can see why they junked it, what an expensive way of doing it! Anyway these parts are made by Temic who also made/make parts for Merc Benz, so the info I was given could well be correct that it's an early CAN system from the Germans.
The spares listed on Ebay mention being tech2 cleared so I would imagine the BCM is paired with the ECU for the immobiliser. I would guess for this to work will require a few bits off the donor car. The BCM part is listed under instruments and the dash display on EPC - this is important as allegedly various GM cars have some of the software in the head unit (the tech2 diags etc).
Without insider knowledge it really needs someone with a CAN analyser and the skills to work on a live car to see what's going on.
ohh what do I have on my desk..... ahh yes a 4 channels of CAN gear :) lol
Derv stand alone units are either hideously expensive and need very expensive calibration tools OR still expensive and piss poor at what they do :(
I've a feeling that area of the market will sort of take off in a couple of years but since lots of the affordable petrol PCM's arent even ETB compatible yet I wouldnt want to think how long a derv PCM would take :(
ohh what do I have on my desk..... ahh yes a 4 channels of CAN gear :) lol
I suspect the misses might have an issue with a Vec C turning up and you declaring that its 'research' lol
Vectra C & a second hand Cummins engine for 800lbft of win IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxxNMDshGBc&feature=relmfu
I suspect the misses might have an issue with a Vec C turning up and you declaring that its 'research' lol
shes already threatening to have the vx and nova taken away by the scrappy lol
Might be easier to have a quick look on the CAN to see what messages and speeds are involved and then drop a data logger on there
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