camshaft choice - 1600 8v.

[witwicky]

Hi guys,

New on here, hopeing you guys will be able to help me out a bit.

I have a 1600 8v engine, the 16sv, from an early astra or cavalier, which im putting into a classic mini.

Ive got a few options on the cams i could use, i was just wondering if anyone would be able to shed some light on which would be the best option in terms of power.
The engine will be run basically standard, with just a lightly skimmed and ported head, either running the standard carb or possible R1 carbs.

I have a choice of either the standard cam, one from an E16SE engine, or one from a 1.2 nova engine.

I was told by someone at my local vauxhall dealer that the 1.2 cam actually had the highest lift or was the best one to use, but would like someone else to confirm this.

Thanks

Chris

[Royston]

I was told by someone at my local vauxhall dealer that the 1.2 cam actually had the highest lift or was the best one to use, but would like someone else to confirm this.

Err not to my knowledge:eek:



E1.6SE as a base, plenty of high lift cam's available depending on carburation;)

[witwicky]

Should have mentioned i want to keep with standard parts for now due to insurance, and budget, obviously an aftermarket cam will be better than any of these.

[tom reid]

You need an SR cam.

[witwicky]

what engine size is the SR cam?

[mowgli]

1300/1400, then you can run the old style distributor setup

[MattBrown]

Skim the cam box aswell.

Only slightly.

[witwicky]

doesnt the SR cam use the pin drive setup for the bosh dizzy, which is the same as the drive on the SV and SE engines anyway?

The other problem i have is i can only seem to get hold of delco dizzys which are all slot drive, i cant find any second hand bosch ones no matter where i look.
New ones are apparently arround £120 which isnt over the top compared with other new ones, but its still more than i wanted to spend on it.

[Stuart]

You had to pick pretty much the worst engine to put in didnt you lol....

If you want to stick with single carb then I'd go for a 1400bottom end with a 1.3/1.3carb head and the inlet to suit. Would be a far nicer drive than the SV ever could be.

[witwicky]

Skim the cam box aswell.

Only slightly.

What would this achieve?


I am pretty sure i will be fitting R1 carbs. And even if i dont to begin with, it wont stay single carb for long.

[Stuart]

moves the cam lower in relation to the rocker... technically should increase lift and duration, but with hydraulic lifters thats not going to be by much.
Also makes timing it up a bitch lol

[mowgli]

skimming the cam carrier is a total myth, that somebody put about some time ago as a way of cheating the cam rules in something like grass track racing... it doesn't do a thing. apart from removing 5 grams of ally....

please try to find a 1400 (c14se) or 1600 mpi head (e/c16se). the valves/ports are way better then the 16sv.

[Stuart]

please try to find a 1400 (c14se) or 1600 mpi head (e/c16se). the valves/ports are way better then the 16sv.

but then no single carb inlet will fit (with sensible results)

[mowgli]

but a set of bike carbs will.....

[Stuart]

note the OP's comments about wanting OEM/std parts for insurance etc.....


tbh dropping the MPI 1.6 in would be a far better idea overall.

[xNichollsd]

what engine size is the SR cam?

[mowgli]

don't they chop the plenum off the inlet manifold and reverse it for clearance on the mini conversion??

[MK999]

don't they chop the plenum off the inlet manifold and reverse it for clearance on the mini conversion??

It's a fairly decent idea for most conversions tbh, stuffing the inlet up against the strut top wasn't Vauxhalls brightest work. I'm not sure why mantzel style inlets etc don't switch the inlet side really.

I'm with Stuart on the MPI lump but iirc there was some reason you didn't wanna do that.


I was told by someone at my local vauxhall dealer that the 1.2 cam actually had the highest lift or was the best one to use, but would like someone else to confirm this.

Sound about as useful as the average halfords employee :p

[witwicky]

Good job im not the average halfords employee then... :lol:

I was wondering how skimming the caseing would help since it wouldnt effect the cam profile at all therefore not increasing lift or duration, if anything it would mean the valves would never shut...

Someone over on migweb checked and said that the valves on the SV engine are the same part number as on the SE engines, so unless that information is wrong, there cant be that much difference between the two.

does anyone have pictures of an SE head with no manifold on it that i could look at?

Funny thing is, my local scrappy wont let me take a cylinder head by its self, and i dont really want to buy another engine, especially not at their prices.

It is, or even was, my understanding that the only difference between the SV and the SE are the injection/ ignition setup, and the cam shaft. With a slight possibility of a difference in the actual cylinder head.


To clarify, what i have been told by my insurance is that im not allowed to tune the engine beyond what i can do with standard parts, unless it is strictly nessercery for the conversion, eg, the exhaust manifold and inlet setup.
So basically i want to use the best standard head and cam available to me.

[MK999]

E16SE should only run you about 100-150 2nd hand depending on condition, scrappy is definitely not the best place for them. I sold one recently cammed, pipercross filter, loads of spare/new sensors, set of injectors ready for cleaning etc etc, £207 it went for on ebay. You will most likely spend something near that messing about with different heads etc.

E16 head from exhaust side, haven't got one from inlet:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/MK999/DSC00090.jpg

[witwicky]

Thanks for that. :)
Exhaust side looks identicle. I might work out the dimentions later and compare that to mine :lol:

Its the inlet side im mainly bothered about. I already know the exhaust setup is going to be less than desirable due to the lack of space for a manifold.

[Stuart]

exhaust side is the same for all OHC small block 8v engines.

Inlet side of the SV will be nasty square ports like the 1.2Injection and all 1.4 heads (bar the SE)

I have a 16se head in the shed I'll grab some pics of on friday unless someone beats me to it (pm me to remind me if you need to lol)

[MK999]

Google beat you to it lol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/superhuan_maltagozobuses/4589176959/

Round ports

[Stuart]

saves me effort :)

[witwicky]

That head looks allot better than the SV one.

Is that standard or has it been modified?
Doesnt look to be anything like as much material around the valves, so flow should be allot better.

Is that a C or E 16SE head?

[Stuart]

you wont find a carb manifold (bar T40's/bike carbs) for the MPI head though :(

[witwicky]

The other question...
Is there any difference in the cubic capacity of the 2 heads... I dont wanna drop the compression to low, or make it stupidly high.

Wont the bolt holes line up with the one i have?
If they will, im sure i can modify it to make it work for a while.

[MK999]

They are both the same I believe, only difference between them is management and a cat.

Wouldn't want a carb anyway if it's meant to be standard, running it on an ignition setup is easy enough.

[witwicky]

Tbh, the probabilty of this ending up on bike carbs is pretty high now.
Just been offered some ZZR600 carbs for a good price :)
If not, i know of some R1 carbs with some damage which could be repaired.

What i really dont want to do now is put a head on it which is going to massively drop the compression ratio.
It will probably get a skim anyway just for piece of mind with the head gasket.

[Stuart]

the SE head wont drop the CR, just give you far better ports for things like individual carbs etc

[witwicky]

ok thanks :)

Ill start trying to remember what tools i need to get a head off then :lol:

Anyone ever used zzr 600 carbs on a 1600 engine before?

[deanwilko]

speak to tom reid about bike carb conversion.